Post Mortem #20 - Detroit Pistons

[ConSarnit]

The worse thing Detroit can do is bring everybody back. I wouldn't bring back Beasley for example. This is how bad teams get stuck, they have one year of success and they run it back. Keep changing, keep evolving. It's clear they need to build around Cade, Thompson and Duren. They're getting Ivey back. I'd sign someone like NAW to shore up defense and outside shooting and they need like a swing 3/4 guy like a Jake LaRaivia or something.

If you get rid of Beasley how do you make up that shooting? These high volume 3pt gunners are very important on teams like DET, especially if they are going forward with Thompson and Duren playing heavy minutes.

I agree that you don’t want to build a team where Beasley is a key component. If you’re going to lock yourself into spacing issues (Ausur, Duren and Holland) you’re going to have to replace Beasley at some level.

I think DET should roll it back with Beasley (ideally on a tradable contract) until they can figure out better replacement. It’s not ideal but it’s a hold the fort type move that shouldn’t cost you much (I’m assuming sub MLE money).

[Synciere]

This team is fool's gold IMO. I have some doubts as to whether this team will make it back to the playoffs next year if PHI is healthy. I even think ATL can also make a run.

IMO DET needs to pick up the phone and make a deal to get Cade some help otherwise they will end up like ORL very soon. Everyone except Cade and Ausar is up for sale

Orlando wasn't fools' gold, they were ravaged by injury and it took a while for Banchero and Wagner to get back to 100% after returning, Suggs was out as well. I expect them to bounce back next season.

Same with evaluating the Pistons. Ivey was out the last 4 months and Stewart in the playoffs as well so the group we saw in the playoffs will look different to start next season with those guys back,
With that said, they need an upgrade at the 4 and Cade needs to develop a take over mentality if they're to take the next step. Otherwise, this is a perennial treadmill lower end playoff/play-in team.

Anyone hyping Philly and saying these Pistons or Magic are fools gold, are not to be taken seriously. Detroit may end up in the play in next year but they are building something real. Even if the 6ers beat up on bad teams in the regular season, they will just roll over in round one again.

It’s not the the team was fools gold, but right now it feels like their youth is. Cade is great but the jury on him being a #1 is still out. Thompson is definitely a piece that can be part of a contending core, but the rest of their youth are all question marks. Langdon did very well with his veteran additions but eventually you’d like to see Holland and Ivey take over those minutes and surpass the production of a Hardaway or Harris. They have to walk the fine line between youth development and competitive play. If the youth doesn’t develop, then a big trade will probably be needed because they won’t be getting top five picks anymore.

[littlerock2277]

While Harris was solid for them this year I think they should look to upgrade from him. See if they could package him and prospect (holland) get someone more reliable at the 4.

Bring back Beasley, you’ll have him Jaden Ivey back and hardaway. Keeping that depth of shooting. But I think they need a legit 2nd option beside Cade I think he has the potential to be as good as or just below SGA and Luka. Time to capitalize on his growth.

[cgf]

I have my doubts about Markannen, but he would be a very interesting frontcourt fit with Duren/Stewart & Thompson/Holland. If you could keep Ivey out of it, and bring back Dennis...assuming he hasn't worn out his welcome in the locker-room yet. That rotation would look very nifty.

Harris + Holland + a pick or two? Ivey - Cade - Ausar - Lauri - Duren; Schröder - Hardaway/Beasley - Klintman/Fontechio - Stewart, with Sasser on hand whenever Dennis needs to go.

[mcfly1204]

I have my doubts about Markannen, but he would be a very interesting frontcourt fit with Duren/Stewart & Thompson/Holland. If you could keep Ivey out of it, and bring back Dennis...assuming he hasn't worn out his welcome in the locker-room yet. That rotation would look very nifty.

Harris + Holland + a pick or two? Ivey - Cade - Ausar - Lauri - Duren; Schröder - Hardaway/Beasley - Klintman/Fontechio - Stewart, with Sasser on hand whenever Dennis needs to go.

Harris, Holland, and a pick or two for Markkanen? That feels very light.

[Clav]

Thanks for taking these over, Clav. I wish I had the time.

As others have mentioned, the Pistons lacked a 2nd threat. In some ways, Ivey was becoming that before he got hurt. He averaged 17.6 ppg this year with 3-point shooting north of 40%. BUT they were still a slightly sub-.500 team until he got hurt. They started winning after he stopped playing. Is that because they were getting to the point of understanding and buying into Bickerstaff's new system? Is that because the vets play winning basketball more than Ivey? If so, can that change? Is it because it put the ball in Cade's hands more? I'm not sure. Obviously, it's better for the Pistons if Ivey is that guy and they can play winning basketball with him.

Both Thompson twins are becoming monsters and they are still so young. Ausar is already a top defensive player and his offense has improved as well. I think his continued growth is the biggest thing that could catapult the Pistons to the next level.

Jalen Duren is only 21. He's still got a lot of growth left too. It's such a young team and great to see them already seeing some success so far from their ceiling age-wise.

Detroit really missed Steward this series. People who don't watch Pistons games thinks he's just a guy who rages and gets thrown out of games. Yes, that is a couple-times-a-year type of thing, but he is an amazing post defender and brings a lot to the team.

I understand the desire to start putting chips in to get a star to become a serious competitor. I don't care who the star is, though, I'd want it done without Cade and Ausar or not at all.

The Post Mortem creator! Gods be good! You laid the ground work, respectfully I'm trying to keep it going. Cheer buddy. Good to see ya around too

I had a great time watching the Pistons play this year, they played well above what I expected and focused defensively. Also the spacing on the floor was a lot better, but there's a lot to build on. Duren I have hope that he'll improve more this summer after tasting the playoffs. Thompson and Cade played great, there's a level they can reach, especially if Thompson and Duren shoot a little better around the court.

Agree that Stewart being out was a detriment to the team's playoff run, he helps in many areas of the floor, surely this next season there's renewed fire to keep this going, they can do it, there's space in the East to establish home court advantage if any other teams falter.

Have a good one, my friend! Hoping for your Pistons to keep the good work going.

[cgf]

I have my doubts about Markannen, but he would be a very interesting frontcourt fit with Duren/Stewart & Thompson/Holland. If you could keep Ivey out of it, and bring back Dennis...assuming he hasn't worn out his welcome in the locker-room yet. That rotation would look very nifty.

Harris + Holland + a pick or two? Ivey - Cade - Ausar - Lauri - Duren; Schröder - Hardaway/Beasley - Klintman/Fontechio - Stewart, with Sasser on hand whenever Dennis needs to go.

Harris, Holland, and a pick or two for Markkanen? That feels very light.

I’m not as high on Lauri as a lot of people and like Holland quite a bit. So if it takes more than a couple FRPs to make that swap, I’d pass.

[Hoop Hunter]

Keep Front Office
Keep Head Coach
Performed better than Expected
Improving team

Perfect score.

They still need some pieces. They'll get Ivey back. Still to be determined what he'll become. Can Cade make another step?

Next season the pressure gets a little bigger, they are now expected to win. Teams will plan a little better for them. Other teams players know they have to show up now.

We'll see if they can step up.

[CP War Hawks]

They've raised their floor tremendously with TJH, Shroder, Beasley, and Harris. However, their ceiling is compromised. Nearly the same sitch as the Hawks, need a Batman or Robin next to Trae and CC.

[Moses ShamMoses]

They've raised their floor tremendously with TJH, Shroder, Beasley, and Harris. However, their ceiling is compromised. Nearly the same sitch as the Hawks, need a Batman or Robin next to Trae and CC.

Yep, 100%, Pistons got propped up a bit with the vet signings, now the young guys need to continue to develop or Pistons will stall out. Can Ivey or Ausar become the Batman/Robin next to Cade? If not, the risk is becoming a treadmill team.

[mcfly1204]

They've raised their floor tremendously with TJH, Shroder, Beasley, and Harris. However, their ceiling is compromised. Nearly the same sitch as the Hawks, need a Batman or Robin next to Trae and CC.

Yep, 100%, Pistons got propped up a bit with the vet signings, now the young guys need to continue to develop or Pistons will stall out. Can Ivey or Ausar become the Batman/Robin next to Cade? If not, the risk is becoming a treadmill team.

And in all seriousness, to this point JBB has shown himself to be a treadmill coach. Can he make that next step? Perhaps. That said I would not be surprised if Detroit needs to move on at some point to make a legit push for contention.

[Capn'O]

So y'all must be feeling a little better about things now?

[cgf]

So y'all must be feeling a little better about things now?

Thank god the Celtics don't have someone like Cade, or the tenacity of those Pistons.

[dakomish23]

1. Cade is a top 10 guy with potential to rise into the top 5. Congrats DET - you go the hardest part figured out. I think the series would have went longer if he had turned it on like those guys do and said I'm not losing these games. I saw that switch happen for Jokic after the LAL bubble loss. Maybe it will happen for him. Good luck to the NBA if he does, b/c he's got all the tools to be unstoppable.

2. What a great redemption arc for Harris. Not just in output, but him being the elder statemen to the young guys. Happy for him.

3. I think Jalen Green should absolutely be a target if he's available. I think it would be a tremendous fit b/w Cade & Thompson.

[Invictus88]

And in all seriousness, to this point JBB has shown himself to be a treadmill coach. Can he make that next step? Perhaps. That said I would not be surprised if Detroit needs to move on at some point to make a legit push for contention.

And in all seriousness this is an absurd statement to make after a team with just 14 wins previously and a ton of young guys just made the playoffs and pushed the Knicks to 6 games (with some controversial losses to boot).

I mean... are you saying a non-treadmill coach would have won more regular season games with this squad and/or should have taken them to the 2nd round or beyond?

You may be absolutely right in the end but nothing in this current context of events should make you draw that conclusion. Can we at least wait to see the Pistons have a moment of plateauing before we start making judgements like these?

[mcfly1204]

And in all seriousness, to this point JBB has shown himself to be a treadmill coach. Can he make that next step? Perhaps. That said I would not be surprised if Detroit needs to move on at some point to make a legit push for contention.

And in all seriousness this is an absurd statement to make after a team with just 14 wins previously and a ton of young guys just made the playoffs and pushed the Knicks to 6 games (with some controversial losses to boot).

I mean... are you saying a non-treadmill coach would have won more regular season games with this squad and/or should have taken them to the 2nd round or beyond?

You may be absolutely right in the end but nothing in this current context of events should make you draw that conclusion. Can we at least wait to see the Pistons have a moment of plateauing before we start making judgements like these?

It's not absurd at all, and no I am not saying that a non-treadmill coach would have necessarily had the same success as JBB in Detroit this season. My point is that there are different classes of coaches that have varying level of effectiveness depending on team needs. JBB has shown himself to be on par with the Mike Browns of the NBA. They can get young guys to play hard and defend, raising the team's floor. Can they take teams to the next level of being legitimate contenders? I'm not going to rule that out for JBB, but I would not exactly be looking to put money on that either.

[tsherkin]

3. I think Jalen Green should absolutely be a target if he's available. I think it would be a tremendous fit b/w Cade & Thompson.

Really? What has he showed which excites you about his fit with Detroit?

[Invictus88]

And in all seriousness, to this point JBB has shown himself to be a treadmill coach. Can he make that next step? Perhaps. That said I would not be surprised if Detroit needs to move on at some point to make a legit push for contention.

And in all seriousness this is an absurd statement to make after a team with just 14 wins previously and a ton of young guys just made the playoffs and pushed the Knicks to 6 games (with some controversial losses to boot).

I mean... are you saying a non-treadmill coach would have won more regular season games with this squad and/or should have taken them to the 2nd round or beyond?

You may be absolutely right in the end but nothing in this current context of events should make you draw that conclusion. Can we at least wait to see the Pistons have a moment of plateauing before we start making judgements like these?

It's not absurd at all, and no I am not saying that a non-treadmill coach would have necessarily had the same success as JBB in Detroit this season. My point is that there are different classes of coaches that have varying level of effectiveness depending on team needs. JBB has shown himself to be on par with the Mike Browns of the NBA. They can get young guys to play hard and defend, raising the team's floor. Can they take teams to the next level of being legitimate contenders? I'm not going to rule that out for JBB, but I would not exactly be looking to put money on that either.

So you didn't read what I wrote at all then? He might be a treadmill coach. But the success he has had as of late in the context of the Detroit Pistons does not specifically support that. And that is what this thread is about: A post-mortem for the Pistons 2024 season and what to do next year.

JBB has been exactly what this team needed this season to help these young players develop and make some fundamental strides. They were wildly successful beyond all expectations this year.

Nothing that occurred during the 2024 season gives any credence to the idea that we shouldn't continue to employ JBB as a coach next year (which was one of the poll questions). There's still a ton of growing to do by a young team. We shouldn't be concerned about contending for anything yet.

You coming in here just to say that he is historically a treadmill coach is almost completely irrelevant to this thread. Who cares in this context?

Like I said in my previous post. Come back next year if/when the team plateaus under him and then there's basis to have that discussion. Otherwise just GTFO.

[babyjax13]

I have my doubts about Markannen, but he would be a very interesting frontcourt fit with Duren/Stewart & Thompson/Holland. If you could keep Ivey out of it, and bring back Dennis...assuming he hasn't worn out his welcome in the locker-room yet. That rotation would look very nifty.

Harris + Holland + a pick or two? Ivey - Cade - Ausar - Lauri - Duren; Schröder - Hardaway/Beasley - Klintman/Fontechio - Stewart, with Sasser on hand whenever Dennis needs to go.

Harris, Holland, and a pick or two for Markkanen? That feels very light.

I’m not as high on Lauri as a lot of people and like Holland quite a bit. So if it takes more than a couple FRPs to make that swap, I’d pass.

I'd rather have picks than Holland, and I think Detroit would rather have Holland than picks. Harris + 3 picks is probably enough for me to say yes, especially if they are 26/28/30 since we have multiple in 25/27/29/31.

[Invictus88]

Thanks for taking these over, Clav. I wish I had the time.

As others have mentioned, the Pistons lacked a 2nd threat. In some ways, Ivey was becoming that before he got hurt. He averaged 17.6 ppg this year with 3-point shooting north of 40%. BUT they were still a slightly sub-.500 team until he got hurt. They started winning after he stopped playing. Is that because they were getting to the point of understanding and buying into Bickerstaff's new system? Is that because the vets play winning basketball more than Ivey? If so, can that change? Is it because it put the ball in Cade's hands more? I'm not sure. Obviously, it's better for the Pistons if Ivey is that guy and they can play winning basketball with him.

Both Thompson twins are becoming monsters and they are still so young. Ausar is already a top defensive player and his offense has improved as well. I think his continued growth is the biggest thing that could catapult the Pistons to the next level.

Jalen Duren is only 21. He's still got a lot of growth left too. It's such a young team and great to see them already seeing some success so far from their ceiling age-wise.

Detroit really missed Steward this series. People who don't watch Pistons games thinks he's just a guy who rages and gets thrown out of games. Yes, that is a couple-times-a-year type of thing, but he is an amazing post defender and brings a lot to the team.

I understand the desire to start putting chips in to get a star to become a serious competitor. I don't care who the star is, though, I'd want it done without Cade and Ausar or not at all.

The Post Mortem creator! Gods be good! You laid the ground work, respectfully I'm trying to keep it going. Cheer buddy. Good to see ya around too

I had a great time watching the Pistons play this year, they played well above what I expected and focused defensively. Also the spacing on the floor was a lot better, but there's a lot to build on. Duren I have hope that he'll improve more this summer after tasting the playoffs. Thompson and Cade played great, there's a level they can reach, especially if Thompson and Duren shoot a little better around the court.

Agree that Stewart being out was a detriment to the team's playoff run, he helps in many areas of the floor, surely this next season there's renewed fire to keep this going, they can do it, there's space in the East to establish home court advantage if any other teams falter.

Have a good one, my friend! Hoping for your Pistons to keep the good work going.

There's a misconception involving Ivey that his departure somehow led to the Pistons starting to win ballgames. This is false.
The Pistons won 4 out of his last 5 games (@PHO, @LAL, @SAC and home vs ORL). Their only loss was @DEN.

Ivey was destroying ORL when he broke his fibula. 8-11 fg, 5-6 3pt in 26 minutes. Orlando had no answer for him. He had really started being active defensively and looked like he was finally putting things together.

It was just really unfortunate timing in that respect.