Alatan wrote:cupcakesnake wrote:Murray has been fine these playoffs. He's streaky, inconsistent, a little wild; the kind of player when he misses it looks really bad, but when he makes it he looks great. He's been making it enough in these playoffs to be a viable second option. The only 2nd options who have averaged more ppg in these playoffs are Franz, Lebron, and Randle. The Nuggets are playing one of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history, getting guarded almost exclusively by Lu Dort and Alex Caruso (nbd, just two of the best perimeter defender EVER). Before OKC, they drew the Clippers, the 3rd ranked defense this year, and had Kris Dunn assigned to him. Against the Clippers Murray averaged 23ppg on 48/40/89 spits and added 6 assists per game.
I don't get what people are complaining about. People tune into an OKC game, see Murray missing tough shots, and overreact. Murray is fine, but the defense is GREAT. Credit the performances of these incredible defenders rather than denigrating the offensive player.
Then with MPJ, he's playing with 1 arm and still able to hit 2 threes per game. This team doesn't another 6'10" shooter to replace him. People scream for Julia Strawther, but there's zero evidence that he's ready to contribute to a playoff team in extended minutes. The Nuggets unfortunately need MPJ as he is. He's way overpaid, but it's not the time to bag on his play.
The Nuggets are pretty good. They're showing their offensive resilience, and and ability to dial up the defense to a strong playoff level. Same as always, they need depth. If there's a trade out there that can increase their overall talent and depth, then yeah do it. I agree Murray and MPJ are overpaid, but I don't agree they aren't good or that it's simple to acquire a player better than them.
I strongly disagree. MPJ was always overrated even in the things people claim he does well. He is not a reliable shooter especially not in the playoffs where he has less time to release the shot. He is also not as good of a rebounder as stats would lead you to believe as most of his rebounds are uncontested. Defensively he is awful. And he has no ability to create his shot. Dude is 6 10 for nothing as they say.
Murray is another case of decent stats awful player. Firstly he is extremely streaky to the point that he can shoot your team out of a game. Sometimes he can win you games you should not win but many times he digs you in a hole and then your team needs to claw back hoping he catches fire in the 4th. Another bad part of his game is that he is not a great playmaker, often overdribbling, killing the pace and the flow of the offense only to pass it in the last couple of seconds creating nothing. Not a reliable shooter either and teams dont respect him off ball as he is seen more as a rhythm shooter so he doesnt give you that much of a spacing advantage even as his stats suggest that he should. He is also a negative defender.
Teams cant rely to win with players such as those outside of rare circumstances.
With Murray... those "rare circumstances" were entire playoff runs, with one resulting in a title. Some of the stuff you're saying just isn't true. Murray is a perfectly reliable outside shooter (shooting 38% from 3 in a playoff run where you think he sucks, and he's at 38% for his playoff career). Defenses absolutely worry about him off the ball.
I agree he has bad, ugly possessions where you question his decision making. I'm not here to say he's perfect and never does anything wrong. I see those same possessions and shake my head. I do think Denver could use another ball handler in this offense, because right now Murray is their be-all-end all in terms of creating off the dribble. You want to be able to utilize Jokic's massive benefits as a screener, but right now Murray is the only one who can benefit from them. If there were multiple sources of off-the-dribble juice, Denver wouldn't have as many possessions where Murray was creating something from nothing. I agree absolutely though that there are important possessions where he needs to get Jokic a touch instead of dancing. On the other hand, I see why they need him to stay super aggressive the way their offense in constructed.
Murray was bad last year when he was injured, and in general his health has been a big question mark for the team. I don't agree with your scouting report at all though. Saying he is not a spacing advantage just sounds like something you're making up. Defenses absolutely throw resources at Murray. No matter how fans are feeling right now, Murray has been fine these playoffs. He's playing against the best perimeter defense we've ever seen and still has stretches where he takes Denver on nice scoring runs.
MPJ... yeah it's sad. He had so much promise as a versatile finisher playing next to Jokic. Part of me gets why they paid him. Before that second back injury, MPJ was automatic from 3 and at the rim. I saw the vision: pairing a 6'10" dude who could dunk over people at the rim, and shoot 44% on threes. Go back and look at his age 22 stats (right before he got hurt) if you forget what I'm talking about. He's never quite been that guy since. There are times when he looks a little closer to it. For a big chunk of the regular season this year, he looked the best he'd look since the injury. Then get gets this shoulder thing, is obviously playing through a ton of pain, and can't even really catch sometimes.
Even at his best, MPJ was a hyper specialist. He's a total zero as a playmaker and ball handler. Man was put on this earth to orbit around Jokic, something he's still capable of when healthy. I don't agree with some of what you say though. Dude has no problem getting seperation on this 3-point shot in the playoffs. He shot the ball awful in the finals, but other than that he's been mostly reliable. Dude obliterated the Lakers last year. He jsut hit 44% against the Clippers despite being injured. He's shot over 40% in half his playoff series so I think you're overreacting to seeing him have some bad games/series. Defensively... he's an awful man-to-man defender and doesn't compensate with great awareness. He's certainly a below average defender, especially for his size. He does play an important role in Denver's defense though, because he's their only defender who can get vertical. When Denver crowds the paint, it's nice they have a 6'10" guy who can jump. Jokic can't jump, and AG is 6'7. MPJ has the best rim defense numbers on their team. Sometimes guys can be bad at defense, but still play an important role. Even broken, MPJ is a rare kind of player.
I don't see them getting rid of MPJ. His injury history, his giant contract, and his clear lack of development makes him an unattractive target for most teams. I think he's worse off outside of Denver, where he pairs well with Jokic. I think most teams would agree.
