2001 Lakers V 1996 Bulls but with Peak Kobe

[Optms]

2001 Lakers easily.

Giving peak Shaq 2008 Kobe is just unfair.

[tsherkin]

By "dealt with Shaq" I mean they played against him and won. Shaq killed them.

I figured that's what you meant, but my counterpoint was the LA supporting cast and that Shaq would be even MORE problematic against them in his 01 incarnation. We know that teams have been able to eat it from Shaq and win by shutting down everyone else (say, the 04 Pistons), but this was a much more cohesive Lakers squad with all the depth and spacing required. And Kobe in a better athletic form, too.

Pippen should have some success against Kobe. He's a rare guy who will be bigger and just as strong.

He might. But I also think that Pippen never really had to deal with anyone like Kobe until he was an old man on the Blazers. 01 Bryant was immediately the most dangerous scorer which Pippen would have ever faced outside of practice.

Magic role players shat the bed but Scott and Anderson were two of the best spacers in the game. I don't see spacing as a huge difference even though Fisher, Fox, and Horry are better high pressure performers. You had to commit to the Magic's threats.

Scott and Anderson were both murderous chokers, though, so that spacing matters only so much. They choked the same against Houston, remember.

There's no way the Bulls waltz through the Lakers like they did the Magic series but I do think the Magic series provides a blueprint for how they ultimately prevail. They did see something similar.

Again, I'm not arguing that LA MUST win. I think it would be a 7-game series, tight all the way. I was railing against the premise that the Bulls would walk through this series.

[Capn'O]

Scott and Anderson were both murderous chokers, though, so that spacing matters only so much. They choked the same against Houston, remember.

Truly unforgettable.

Again, I'm not arguing that LA MUST win. I think it would be a 7-game series, tight all the way. I was railing against the premise that the Bulls would walk through this series.

For sure. It would have been a legendary series. I'd heavily favor the Bulls but in a very hard fought battle.

[tsherkin]

For sure. It would have been a legendary series. I'd heavily favor the Bulls but in a very hard fought battle.

It would have been something epic to watch.

Always and forever for me, though, the greatest What-If we never got to see was Magic with Shaq. That would have been something else. An amazing book-end to Magic's career, filling the Cap role to Shaq as Buck in a beautiful mirror of him and Kareem.

[HMFFL]

2001 Lakers easily.

Giving peak Shaq 2008 Kobe is just unfair.

It would be a rare win for Shaq to have over Dennis Rodman.

My brain can't make sense of it so I will take the Bulls to win.

[JM00n69]

I think 2001 team were a little overrated, but nobody from 96 Bulls could guard Shaq, even though no one from 2001 Lakers could guard MJ. Kobe would have a tough go with Pippen guarding him.

Lakers never faced an offensive threat as incredible as MJ, not a perimeter defensive player as good as Pippen.

Kobe would probably be focused on Jordan on both ends of the court. Not Scottie.

Hypothetically, if Scottie did guard Kobe, I doubt Scottie makes a positive impact. Scottie defense can be overhyped at times and in this case, he would be facing Kobe.

Prime Pippen was on par as a defender with Kahwi's best years if not better. MJ was not far off his level. Not sure what you're on about Pip being overhyped. Him and MJ paired are probably the best all time perimiter defensive duo in their peak years.

[Capn'O]

For sure. It would have been a legendary series. I'd heavily favor the Bulls but in a very hard fought battle.

It would have been something epic to watch.

Always and forever for me, though, the greatest What-If we never got to see was Magic with Shaq. That would have been something else. An amazing book-end to Magic's career, filling the Cap role to Shaq as Buck in a beautiful mirror of him and Kareem.

It had not occurred to me until just now how close we were to seeing it.

In the dynasty league I play on the Knicks board one of the players assembled a Curry/Jokic pairing and has just waxed everyone since. That's another I'd love to see. On the Knicks, obviously

[JM00n69]

For sure. It would have been a legendary series. I'd heavily favor the Bulls but in a very hard fought battle.

It would have been something epic to watch.

Always and forever for me, though, the greatest What-If we never got to see was Magic with Shaq. That would have been something else. An amazing book-end to Magic's career, filling the Cap role to Shaq as Buck in a beautiful mirror of him and Kareem.

It had not occurred to me until just now how close we were to seeing it.

In the dynasty league I play on the Knicks board one of the players assembled a Curry/Jokic pairing and has just waxed everyone since. That's another I'd love to see. On the Knicks, obviously

I think those two cancel each other out a bit offenively and on defense you then have a below average POA defender backed by a below average rim protector. Then again if you swapped Murray for not even prime Curry Denver would steamroll the league last two years.

[Capn'O]

It would have been something epic to watch.

Always and forever for me, though, the greatest What-If we never got to see was Magic with Shaq. That would have been something else. An amazing book-end to Magic's career, filling the Cap role to Shaq as Buck in a beautiful mirror of him and Kareem.

It had not occurred to me until just now how close we were to seeing it.

In the dynasty league I play on the Knicks board one of the players assembled a Curry/Jokic pairing and has just waxed everyone since. That's another I'd love to see. On the Knicks, obviously

I think those two cancel each other out a bit offenively and on defense you then have a below average POA defender backed by a below average rim protector. Then again if you swapped Murray for not even prime Curry Denver would steamroll the league last two years.

Edit - oh, you're keeping Murray around? No no. Swap.

I disagree entirely with that premise. They complement one another so well. Between Curry's perimeter gravity and Jokic's post presence and ability to move the ball from anywhere on the court they would be absolutely unstoppable on offense. Like, those nights where Murray is absolutely on... would be every night.

The defense could be suspect.

[HMFFL]

I think 2001 team were a little overrated, but nobody from 96 Bulls could guard Shaq, even though no one from 2001 Lakers could guard MJ. Kobe would have a tough go with Pippen guarding him.

Lakers never faced an offensive threat as incredible as MJ, not a perimeter defensive player as good as Pippen.

Kobe would probably be focused on Jordan on both ends of the court. Not Scottie.

Hypothetically, if Scottie did guard Kobe, I doubt Scottie makes a positive impact. Scottie defense can be overhyped at times and in this case, he would be facing Kobe.

Prime Pippen was on par as a defender with Kahwi's best years if not better. MJ was not far off his level. Not sure what you're on about Pip being overhyped. Him and MJ paired are probably the best all time perimiter defensive duo in their peak years.

I said "can be overhyped" which you seem to be doing. Pippen had mental lapse at time when it mattered. Jordan had to manage the roster just as much as Phil did.

Pippen to me is a non factor if he's guarding Kobe in the NBA Finals. Jordan would be on Kobe anyways.

[JM00n69]

Kobe would probably be focused on Jordan on both ends of the court. Not Scottie.

Hypothetically, if Scottie did guard Kobe, I doubt Scottie makes a positive impact. Scottie defense can be overhyped at times and in this case, he would be facing Kobe.

Prime Pippen was on par as a defender with Kahwi's best years if not better. MJ was not far off his level. Not sure what you're on about Pip being overhyped. Him and MJ paired are probably the best all time perimiter defensive duo in their peak years.

I said "can be overhyped" which you seem to be doing. Pippen had mental laps at time when it mattered. Jordan had to manage the roster just as much as Phil did.

Pippen to me is a non factor if he's guarding Kobe in the NBA Finals. Jordan would be on Kobe anyways.

Yeah OK man

[LakerLegend]

Kobe was busting pippens ass when he was 20. 2003 Kobe would annihilate him.

[tsherkin]

It had not occurred to me until just now how close we were to seeing it.

A Single. Freaking. Season.

So pissed. Even now.

In the dynasty league I play on the Knicks board one of the players assembled a Curry/Jokic pairing and has just waxed everyone since. That's another I'd love to see. On the Knicks, obviously

Curry/Jokic would be unutterably rude on offense.

[Peregrine01]

I still see the Lakers having a lot of difficulty with Chicago's press. I remember the Bulls/Lakers game in 97 when the Bulls were playing terribly and got down big against the Lakers. Shaq was getting anything he wanted against Bill Wennington. In the second half, the Bulls went to a three-quarters press, put Rodman on Shaq and the Lakers couldn't even get the ball past half-court.

When those Bulls teams wanted to shut off the water they did so seemingly on command and their defense was the biggest reason behind their second three peat IMO. No one would have an answer for Shaq (though Longley and Rodman would do pretty well) but the ballhandling for the Lakers would've been an issue for them - if you force the ball out of Kobe's hands, Fisher or Brian Shaw is going up against Harper, Jordan and Pippen.

[HomoSapien]

The way this title is written it is asking if the 2001 Lakers would defeat the 96 Bulls but with a peak Kobe. So, I’m pretty easily taking 96 Bulls + Kobe. Not sure why this is a 5 page thread.

[HomoSapien]

Kobe was busting pippens ass when he was 20. 2003 Kobe would annihilate him.

In this example, we are talking about a prime 30-year-old Pippen, not an old Pippen coming off back surgery.

[tsherkin]

The way this title is written it is asking if the 2001 Lakers would defeat the 96 Bulls but with a peak Kobe. So, I’m pretty easily taking 96 Bulls + Kobe. Not sure why this is a 5 page thread.

I read it as replacing 01 Kobe with whatever you think peak Kobe is, based on the text, but you're right: it's left a little vague, isn't it?

[HomoSapien]

The way this title is written it is asking if the 2001 Lakers would defeat the 96 Bulls but with a peak Kobe. So, I’m pretty easily taking 96 Bulls + Kobe. Not sure why this is a 5 page thread.

I read it as replacing 01 Kobe with whatever you think peak Kobe is, based on the text, but you're right: it's left a little vague, isn't it?

I was just kidding, he certainly means it your way.

[tsherkin]

The way this title is written it is asking if the 2001 Lakers would defeat the 96 Bulls but with a peak Kobe. So, I’m pretty easily taking 96 Bulls + Kobe. Not sure why this is a 5 page thread.

I read it as replacing 01 Kobe with whatever you think peak Kobe is, based on the text, but you're right: it's left a little vague, isn't it?

I was just kidding, he certainly means it your way.

I'm sure he did, but it's still vaguely amusing

[JM00n69]

Kobe was busting pippens ass when he was 20. 2003 Kobe would annihilate him.

Kobe never played against Pippen when he was 20ys old. And that would've been 3 years after what the OP is reffering to. Sausage