How big is the gap between Giannis and Bron?

[RHODEY]

You give Giannis the same supporting cast Lebron has had and I honestly think he wins just as many rings if not more.

Lebron is still the better overall player but the gap isnt as big as it would seem.

Giannis has lost to an 8th seed and that's atguxbly not his most embarrassing series loss against Jimmy butler's heat. Like he's obviously never beating the warriors and essentially no chance he beats the 2013 spurs. So basically even if he picked up the 2011 championship (again, he once lost to an 8th seed), he's still one behind.

The premise was Giannis having the same supporting cast as LeBron.

Supporting cast LeBron has had in his career: Wade, AD, Kyrie, Love, Bosh, Luka, Ray Allen, and Shaq

Gianis is basically a Lebron who didnt teamhop and wasnt scared to shoot when mattered. Just one ring but (like Dirk) that ring is worth atleast as much as Lebron's 4.

[Optms]

Not even a comparison.

Peak Lebron is the most dominant player of the last 40 years. Even over Shaq, who was a liability down the stretch. And Jordan couldn't guard 1 through 5 either. Lebron at his peak was like 3 superstars rolled into one. That was his level of impact.

Giannis is great but he can't even make it out of the East. Jokic of the East.

Both won rings without changing teams. What are you even yapping about?

What have they done since? Irrelevancy. Anthony Edwards has fielded more success since 2023 for comparison.

[f4p]

Harden has had better teammates than Giannis his entire career so does he have a built in excuse for every season?

Failed with Embiid who is arguably a better player than him

Failed with Durant and Westbrook

Failed with CP3

Failed with Durant and Kyrie

Where do the excuses stop for Harden?

Probably at the end of your trolling.

How is it trolling exactly? Harden has had many elite running mates with not much to show for it.

Because harden and Kyrie played 40 seconds together in the series they lost. Cp3 missed the 2 most important games of the season when they were up on a team people had called unfair just 1 year before (and cp3 looked like crap the next year). They’re not really running mates if they aren’t out there running with you.

And harden got Embiid after hardens prime and yet arguably was better than embiid against Boston, even winning a road game without embiid. And he “failed” with Durant and Westbrook by them exceeding expectations and making the finals when they were young and weren’t expected to, with harden being the 2nd best player in the WCF to get them to the finals?

Nothing about Giannis suggests he’s taking anything other than a whooping against the KD warriors, no matter his supporting cast. The 2020 heat were too much for maybe his actual best team.

[NZB2323]

Probably at the end of your trolling.

How is it trolling exactly? Harden has had many elite running mates with not much to show for it.

Because harden and Kyrie played 40 seconds together in the series they lost. Cp3 missed the 2 most important games of the season when they were up on a team people had called unfair just 1 year before (and cp3 looked like crap the next year). They’re not really running mates if they aren’t out there running with you.

And harden got Embiid after hardens prime and yet arguably was better than embiid against Boston, even winning a road game without embiid. And he “failed” with Durant and Westbrook by them exceeding expectations and making the finals when they were young and weren’t expected to, with harden being the 2nd best player in the WCF to get them to the finals?

Nothing about Giannis suggests he’s taking anything other than a whooping against the KD warriors, no matter his supporting cast. The 2020 heat were too much for maybe his actual best team.

I’ve defended Harden a fair amount on this site, but he’s had way too many disappointing playoff games and has never won a championship so I can’t put him on the same tier as Giannis.

You can say Harden lost to the KD Warriors, but he put up a stinker in game 7. His TS% was 8.1% worse in that series than it was in the regular season. And what about all the years he didn’t face the KD Warriors? It’s like Karl Malone. Sure, he lost to the Jordan Bulls, but what about all the other years?

Harden also has never beat Durant in the playoffs, and had a similar series against Durant in 2013 as Giannis did in 2021. In 2013 Durant didn’t have Harden and Westbrook got injured. In game 6 Harden had a TS% of 48.4% as his team got eliminated. In 2021 in game 7 Giannis had a TS% of 66.3% as his team won the series.

[John Murdoch]

LeBron can do everything Giannis can do but with twice the ball movement and overall Bball IQ and better 3pt %

This would be like comparing Dirk to Duncan ..both great legends in their own right but Timmy just has far less weakneses

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

My Tiers:

Tier 1

1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem

Tier 2

4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Curry
11. Shaq
12. Kobe

Tier 3

13. Jokic
14. Moses Malone
15. Oscar Robertson
16. Jerry West
17. Dr. J
18. Giannis
19. KD
20. Dirk
21. KG

Tier 4

22. Dwayne Wade
23. Kawhi
24. Elgin Baylor
25. Malone
26. Harden
27. Barkley
28. CP3
29. David Robinson

Tier 5

30. Havlicek
31. Rick Barry
32. Steve Nash
33. Ewing
34. Walt Frazier
35. Jason Kidd
36. Stockton
37. SGA
38. Isiah Thomas
39. Scottie Pippen
40. Willis Reed
41. Clyde Drexler
42. Gary Payton
43. Mikan
44. Bob Cousy

Tier 6

45. Bob Pettit
46. Reggie Miller
47. Ray Allen
48. Paul Pierce
49. Tatum
50. Luka

I think you pretty much nailed it. Nit-picking I would slide Kobe to Tier 3 because if he had Giannis's teammates... well Kobe wouldnt have been Kobe. But 12-21 is basically an argument over eras or individual vs team success with no concrete answer.

Kobe has way more longevity than Giannis, and has been healthier in the playoffs.

Giannis didn’t have the best supporting cast, but they also won playoff games without him. I’ll take Giannis’s Finals over any Kobe Finals but I’ll take Kobe’s career over Giannis’s.

Yeah, I would take kobe over Giannis. Just more of a comment that Kobe is more tier 3 than tier 2 IMHO

[zimpy27]

1: LeBron, Jordan, KAJ, Bill are the GOAT 4

5: Magic, Duncan, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Jokic are the 6 candidates

11: Curry, Kobe, Bird, Garnett, West, Giannis, Durant, Oscar are the 8 outsiders


This is based on extending Jokic and Giannis out to a full career as currently projected.

So I got Giannis at 2 tiers below LeBron. I think Giannis has had little luck with teammate injuries at important times

[kbitboc]

Giannis has lost to an 8th seed and that's atguxbly not his most embarrassing series loss against Jimmy butler's heat. Like he's obviously never beating the warriors and essentially no chance he beats the 2013 spurs. So basically even if he picked up the 2011 championship (again, he once lost to an 8th seed), he's still one behind.

The premise was Giannis having the same supporting cast as LeBron.

Supporting cast LeBron has had in his career: Wade, AD, Kyrie, Love, Bosh, Luka, Ray Allen, and Shaq

Gianis is basically a Lebron who didnt teamhop and wasnt scared to shoot when mattered. Just one ring but (like Dirk) that ring is worth atleast as much as Lebron's 4.

Nah, it's just that the Bucks have a much more competent front office. Every time Giannis threatens about not re-signing, the Bucks meet his demands. When Lebron was with Cleveland, it was laughable at what they were able to do for LeBron. The fact that the Bucks is willing to stretch Dame to appease Giannis really speaks volume on what they are willing to do for Giannis.

[Cavsfansince84]

1: LeBron, Jordan, KAJ, Bill are the GOAT 4

5: Magic, Duncan, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Jokic are the 6 candidates

11: Curry, Kobe, Bird, Garnett, West, Giannis, Durant, Oscar are the 8 outsiders


This is based on extending Jokic and Giannis out to a full career as currently projected.

So I got Giannis at 2 tiers below LeBron. I think Giannis has had little luck with teammate injuries at important times

I almost completely agree with those tiers except I'd swap out KD for Dr. J and add in Dirk.

[MavsDirk41]

Not even a comparison.

Peak Lebron is the most dominant player of the last 40 years. Even over Shaq, who was a liability down the stretch. And Jordan couldn't guard 1 through 5 either. Lebron at his peak was like 3 superstars rolled into one. That was his level of impact.

Giannis is great but he can't even make it out of the East. Jokic of the East.

The most dominant player of the last 40 years got outplayed by Dirk in the finals…..and yes, Giannis is no where near James all time, who is a top 3 player all time, but Giannis put up 35/13/5 with a game 6 50 piece in the finals a few years ago. He deserves some respect. And defensively i would take prime Giannis over prime James any day of the week. The glazing is a little much in your post lol.

[Karate Diop]

Career wise it's not close. Giannis on those early Cleveland teams isn't even making the playoffs.

[RHODEY]

The premise was Giannis having the same supporting cast as LeBron.

Supporting cast LeBron has had in his career: Wade, AD, Kyrie, Love, Bosh, Luka, Ray Allen, and Shaq

Gianis is basically a Lebron who didnt teamhop and wasnt scared to shoot when mattered. Just one ring but (like Dirk) that ring is worth atleast as much as Lebron's 4.

Nah, it's just that the Bucks have a much more competent front office. Every time Giannis threatens about not re-signing, the Bucks meet his demands. When Lebron was with Cleveland, it was laughable at what they were able to do for LeBron. The fact that the Bucks is willing to stretch Dame to appease Giannis really speaks volume on what they are willing to do for Giannis.

Nah its more of GIannis having the confidence to lead a non superteam to a ring. He wasnt looking to bolt at the first sign of adversity.

[meekrab]

Giannis is D-Ho, LeBron is Hakeem

[NCHeels2008]

If Giannis somehow gets another ring on anything less than a super team I'd have him around Hakeem, as it stands he's Moses Maloneish to me

[Iwasawitness]

Probably at the end of your trolling.

How is it trolling exactly? Harden has had many elite running mates with not much to show for it.

Because harden and Kyrie played 40 seconds together in the series they lost. Cp3 missed the 2 most important games of the season when they were up on a team people had called unfair just 1 year before (and cp3 looked like crap the next year). They’re not really running mates if they aren’t out there running with you.

And harden got Embiid after hardens prime and yet arguably was better than embiid against Boston, even winning a road game without embiid. And he “failed” with Durant and Westbrook by them exceeding expectations and making the finals when they were young and weren’t expected to, with harden being the 2nd best player in the WCF to get them to the finals?

Nothing about Giannis suggests he’s taking anything other than a whooping against the KD warriors, no matter his supporting cast. The 2020 heat were too much for maybe his actual best team.

The Thunder had the fourth best odds to win the finals that year going into the season. By the time the playoffs started, they were the favorites to go to the finals in the West. Hell, they were favored to beat Miami in the Finals when they did in fact make it.

By no means did they exceed expectations.

[MarcusBrody]

Giannis has only been out of the first round 4 times in his career. His title (along with individual accomplishments) ensures his all time great status, but among all time greats, that's not a strong playoff resume. He's only been out of the second round twice.

He could really use a few more long playoff runs to solidify his very top credentials, especially as the East hasn't often been the dominant conference during his career.

[Iwasawitness]

Gianis is basically a Lebron who didnt teamhop and wasnt scared to shoot when mattered. Just one ring but (like Dirk) that ring is worth atleast as much as Lebron's 4.

Nah, it's just that the Bucks have a much more competent front office. Every time Giannis threatens about not re-signing, the Bucks meet his demands. When Lebron was with Cleveland, it was laughable at what they were able to do for LeBron. The fact that the Bucks is willing to stretch Dame to appease Giannis really speaks volume on what they are willing to do for Giannis.

Nah its more of GIannis having the confidence to lead a non superteam to a ring. He wasnt looking to bolt at the first sign of adversity.

You really can't say anything objective when it comes to LeBron, can you?

Or correct for that matter.

[SpreeS]

The biggest gap between them is health. Giannis had got injured in PO to many time (2020, 2021, 2023, 2024).

Giannis MVP-1,DPOY-1,AS,NBA1,DEF1
Lebron MVP-1,DPOY-2,AS,NBA1,DEF1

Their peaks is close, but careers wise the gap is pretty big

[f4p]

How is it trolling exactly? Harden has had many elite running mates with not much to show for it.

Because harden and Kyrie played 40 seconds together in the series they lost. Cp3 missed the 2 most important games of the season when they were up on a team people had called unfair just 1 year before (and cp3 looked like crap the next year). They’re not really running mates if they aren’t out there running with you.

And harden got Embiid after hardens prime and yet arguably was better than embiid against Boston, even winning a road game without embiid. And he “failed” with Durant and Westbrook by them exceeding expectations and making the finals when they were young and weren’t expected to, with harden being the 2nd best player in the WCF to get them to the finals?

Nothing about Giannis suggests he’s taking anything other than a whooping against the KD warriors, no matter his supporting cast. The 2020 heat were too much for maybe his actual best team.

The Thunder had the fourth best odds to win the finals that year going into the season. By the time the playoffs started, they were the favorites to go to the finals in the West. Hell, they were favored to beat Miami in the Finals when they did in fact make it.

By no means did they exceed expectations.

Boy, you really got me. The team with the 4th best odds finished 2nd but was apparently so good and exceeded expectations enough that people gave them even better odds by the time the playoffs started. A clear underperformance. And they lost to that terrible team with :checks notes: prime LeBron James and Dwyane Wade while harden was all of 22, famously the prime age for winning titles.

[Daddy 801]

Three championships and a hell lot of accolades and records. So kind of a big difference.