Flagg preseason debut: looking as good as advertised at 18 years old

[Mephariel]

I believe you're using elite a little bit too easily. Magic was light years better passer than Bird.

The best defensive player in the world where Wemby lives? The best offensive player with Luka, Shai and few others?

What elite skills Flagg possesses at the moment?

From what I've seen Flagg is a more skillful rookie than LeBron, so he's on target to be a better player than LeBron.

Flagg's passing AND handles both look as good as LeBron's, and Flagg's shooting and defense is better than LeBron's.
We''ll see as his rookie season progresses, but that's how it looks so far.

Shai played his worst basketball of the year in Game 6 (8 turnovers) and Game 7 (8-27 shooting) of the NBA Finals, so I'm not putting him at the top of offensive players.
I think Flagg will be a better offensive player than Doncic, because Doncic makes his teammates into spectators too often, plus he's turnover-prone and often throws the balls straight to defenders.

So you think Flagg will be better than Lebron, Luka, and Shai? So basically without playing a game, you think Flagg will be the greatest player of all time?

[bonita_the_frog]

I believe you're using elite a little bit too easily. Magic was light years better passer than Bird.

The best defensive player in the world where Wemby lives? The best offensive player with Luka, Shai and few others?

What elite skills Flagg possesses at the moment?

From what I've seen Flagg is a more skillful rookie than LeBron, so he's on target to be a better player than LeBron.
Flagg's passing AND handles both look as good as LeBron's, and Flagg's shooting and defense is better than LeBron's.
We''ll see as his rookie season progresses, but that's how it looks so far.
Shai played his worst basketball of the year in Game 6 (8 turnovers) and Game 7 (8-27 shooting) of the NBA Finals, so I'm not putting him at the top of offensive players.

You're basically putting Flagg as the best ever, before he has even played a Nba game.

You're putting Shai as the top offensive player, but you're putting Flagg?

I just said Flagg looks like a better rookie than LeBron, so he's on target to be better than LeBron (which isn't saying much, because being on target after ONE year doesn't mean you will be after 20 years).
It hasn't happened yet, but I'm confident Flagg will have a better rookie season than LeBron did.
Just going by what we've seen so far, as the scientists say, our opinion's change based on evidence.
When more evidence comes in we'll put Flagg higher or lower...

[bonita_the_frog]

So you think Flagg will be better than Lebron, Luka, and Shai? So basically without playing a game, you think Flagg will be the greatest player of all time?

I don't put LeBron anywhere near the greatest of all-time, but I think Flagg will have a better rookie season than LeBron yes.
And that puts Flagg on track to be a better player than LeBron, which again isn't saying much, because being on target after ONE year doesn't mean you'll stay on target after 10 or 20 years.
But it wouldn't surprise me if Flagg has a better career than LeBron.

[Mephariel]

So you think Flagg will be better than Lebron, Luka, and Shai? So basically without playing a game, you think Flagg will be the greatest player of all time?

I don't put LeBron anywhere near the greatest of all-time, but I think Flagg will have a better rookie season than LeBron yes.

That is your problem. You have no idea how to rank players.

[bonita_the_frog]

So you think Flagg will be better than Lebron, Luka, and Shai? So basically without playing a game, you think Flagg will be the greatest player of all time?

I don't put LeBron anywhere near the greatest of all-time, but I think Flagg will have a better rookie season than LeBron yes.

That is your problem. You have no idea how to rank players.

You don't even know my rankings, so good luck proving that...

[Bob8]

So you think Flagg will be better than Lebron, Luka, and Shai? So basically without playing a game, you think Flagg will be the greatest player of all time?

I don't put LeBron anywhere near the greatest of all-time, but I think Flagg will have a better rookie season than LeBron yes.
And that puts Flagg on track to be a better player than LeBron, which again isn't saying much, because being on target after ONE year doesn't mean you'll stay on target after 10 or 20 years.
But it wouldn't surprise me if Flagg has a better career than LeBron.

Have you checked what kind of career LeBron had? The most points scored in Nba history, soon the most games played in Nba, 4 MVPs, 4 rings...

[zero rings]

I believe you're using elite a little bit too easily. Magic was light years better passer than Bird.

The best defensive player in the world where Wemby lives? The best offensive player with Luka, Shai and few others?

What elite skills Flagg possesses at the moment?

From what I've seen Flagg is a more skillful rookie than LeBron, so he's on target to be a better player than LeBron.

Flagg's passing AND handles both look as good as LeBron's, and Flagg's shooting and defense is better than LeBron's.
We''ll see as his rookie season progresses, but that's how it looks so far.

Shai played his worst basketball of the year in Game 6 (8 turnovers) and Game 7 (8-27 shooting) of the NBA Finals, so I'm not putting him at the top of offensive players.
I think Flagg will be a better offensive player than Doncic, because Doncic makes his teammates into spectators too often, plus he's turnover-prone and often throws the balls straight to defenders.

So you think Flagg will be better than Lebron, Luka, and Shai? So basically without playing a game, you think Flagg will be the greatest player of all time?

The poster you’re quoting is some kind of troll. They derail every thread with wacky off-the-wall hot takes.

Don’t feed the troll.

[MarcusBrody]

Yes, people being offended about KG/Flagg comparison just shows how far hype train went before his first Nba game.

I don't think people are offended by suggestions that he'd reach KG's level: that's a best case scenario for basically any player ever coming into the league since him save maybe LeBron and Wemby.

But people can definitely quibble on whether it makes sense to compare them play style wise. Garnett is notably bigger. He measured 6'11" barefoot at the combine. Flagg measured 6'7.75". That's always going to change their profile a good bit. Flagg much more likely to be a wing/slasher and primary/secondary ball handler (though Garnett did work as a secondary - and occasionally even primary - ball handler at times) through out his career.

The quote was, "KG did not have the offensive capability or handle that Flagg has." That's not talking about play style.

My question is, which offensive capabilities and handle has Flagg and KG didn't have?

Range for one. KG shot .275 from 3 for his career and basically stopped taking them at all for the second half - which wasn't in ancient history and the league was valuing stretch 4/5s ever more at that point. He had a good jumper from basically the high school three point line (especially out to free throw line extended), but there is a reason that teams would back off of him and let him take those. Hitting 45% of a 2pt shot is better than your peers, but still not a super valuable shot. Maybe he'd have been better from 4 feet further if he had grown up in a different era, who knows, but he wasn't. Flagg is likely to be immediately better from distance.

Flagg's handle is also different. Garnett had a pretty amazing faceup based handle. Jab, hard dribble right. Continue for a baby jump hook or leaning short jumper or spin back to his left and likely fade. He wasn't actually amazing at getting to the rim on his own actions and that's one reason why he was never super efficient or high volume as a scorer. Flagg has a much more perimeter based handle and looks like he'll be able to be much more of a secondary ball handler and initiate actions more easily.

Garnett was a better post player, especially mid post, and I doubt Flagg will get to that level. Garnett was a great passer for his position. Flagg looks promising there, but different types of passes most likely.

[bonita_the_frog]

So you think Flagg will be better than Lebron, Luka, and Shai? So basically without playing a game, you think Flagg will be the greatest player of all time?

I don't put LeBron anywhere near the greatest of all-time, but I think Flagg will have a better rookie season than LeBron yes.
And that puts Flagg on track to be a better player than LeBron, which again isn't saying much, because being on target after ONE year doesn't mean you'll stay on target after 10 or 20 years.
But it wouldn't surprise me if Flagg has a better career than LeBron.

Have you checked what kind of career LeBron had? The most points scored in Nba history, soon the most games played in Nba, 4 MVPs, 4 rings...

With the all-around skills of Cooper Flagg, the odds are Flagg will win Finals MVP every time he wins a championship.
So as long as Flagg sticks with a contender, I like his chances of winning between 3 and 6 Rings and Finals MVPs.
And total points scored don't help you become GOAT, because hardly anyone put Kareem over Jordan.
And hanging around to play the most games, won't improve your peak level, and it doesn't seem to win you championships either...

[bonita_the_frog]

From what I've seen Flagg is a more skillful rookie than LeBron, so he's on target to be a better player than LeBron.

Flagg's passing AND handles both look as good as LeBron's, and Flagg's shooting and defense is better than LeBron's.
We''ll see as his rookie season progresses, but that's how it looks so far.

Shai played his worst basketball of the year in Game 6 (8 turnovers) and Game 7 (8-27 shooting) of the NBA Finals, so I'm not putting him at the top of offensive players.
I think Flagg will be a better offensive player than Doncic, because Doncic makes his teammates into spectators too often, plus he's turnover-prone and often throws the balls straight to defenders.

So you think Flagg will be better than Lebron, Luka, and Shai? So basically without playing a game, you think Flagg will be the greatest player of all time?

The poster you’re quoting is some kind of troll. They derail every thread with wacky off-the-wall hot takes.

Don’t feed the troll.

Well, I'm not a bully, which is what you are doing... bullying and attacking.
And I don't derail any thread, I even said-

Anyway, MJ and Bird are off-topic so I won't mention them again, I'm saying Flagg can be the best offensive and defensive player in the NBA, he's got the skills and athleticism to do it.

And my takes are always based on stats, facts and eye-test, and I've probably posted more stats than anyone, plus I've seen more games than probably anyone, because my Dad (a basketball coach) has hundreds of DVDs of games (that where on VHS originally) from the 80s and 90s.

[tsherkin]

I just said Flagg looks like a better rookie than LeBron, so he's on target to be better than LeBron (which isn't saying much, because being on target after ONE year doesn't mean you will be after 20 years).
It hasn't happened yet, but I'm confident Flagg will have a better rookie season than LeBron did.

One preseason game doesn't provide any real reason to believe that Flagg will be better than what we saw from Lebron as a rookie. It's difficult to articulate how inane a stance that is. There is the possibility that Flagg looks better than Lebron, but it's just not probable. Lebron was a 20/5/5 who thrived despite a properly dreadful circumstance. There's a good chance Flagg won't score 20 ppg, and he's not really the same level of playmaker Lebron was, nor is he a comparable athlete. It's EXCEPTIONALLY premature to be making that sort of projection.

Are you going to see him have his first crap game and say he's going to be a bust? Because that's the same plane of analysis you're occupying at the moment.

[SweetTouch]

After watching one game I believe he is the greatest to ever lace them up

[ballzboyee]

He definitely looks legit so far. For a rookie he's scary passing out of the double team. I'll throw out a comparison since everybody else has. He actually reminds me a lot of Dominque athletically but with modern shooting touch and range, although Wilkins could actually be pretty good from 3p at times. With his size to shoot over smaller defenders, if he locks down a consistent pull-up from 3p he'll be tough.

[bonita_the_frog]

I just said Flagg looks like a better rookie than LeBron, so he's on target to be better than LeBron (which isn't saying much, because being on target after ONE year doesn't mean you will be after 20 years).
It hasn't happened yet, but I'm confident Flagg will have a better rookie season than LeBron did.

One preseason game doesn't provide any real reason to believe that Flagg will be better than what we saw from Lebron as a rookie. It's difficult to articulate how inane a stance that is. There is the possibility that Flagg looks better than Lebron, but it's just not probable. Lebron was a 20/5/5 who thrived despite a properly dreadful circumstance. There's a good chance Flagg won't score 20 ppg, and he's not really the same level of playmaker Lebron was, nor is he a comparable athlete. It's EXCEPTIONALLY premature to be making that sort of projection.

Are you going to see him have his first crap game and say he's going to be a bust? Because that's the same plane of analysis you're occupying at the moment.

That's what scientists do, change their opinion when they learn more.
Everybody's opinion will change on Flagg at some point.
But I've never called a rookie a "bust", so highly unlikely.

And to have a better rookie season than LeBron, you don't need identical stats, because you can play a lot better defense than rookie LeBron, and you can shoot a lot better than rookie LeBron (.417 field, .290 threes).
Of course if Flagg has a better rookie season than LeBron, you don't have to give him credit, you can say "LeBron had a worse supporting cast".

[Mephariel]

I just said Flagg looks like a better rookie than LeBron, so he's on target to be better than LeBron (which isn't saying much, because being on target after ONE year doesn't mean you will be after 20 years).
It hasn't happened yet, but I'm confident Flagg will have a better rookie season than LeBron did.

One preseason game doesn't provide any real reason to believe that Flagg will be better than what we saw from Lebron as a rookie. It's difficult to articulate how inane a stance that is. There is the possibility that Flagg looks better than Lebron, but it's just not probable. Lebron was a 20/5/5 who thrived despite a properly dreadful circumstance. There's a good chance Flagg won't score 20 ppg, and he's not really the same level of playmaker Lebron was, nor is he a comparable athlete. It's EXCEPTIONALLY premature to be making that sort of projection.

Are you going to see him have his first crap game and say he's going to be a bust? Because that's the same plane of analysis you're occupying at the moment.

That's what scientists do, change their opinion when they learn more.
Everybody's opinion will change on Flagg at some point.
But I've never called a rookie a "bust", so highly unlikely.

Dude, I am in the preclinical field. So I actually do real science. A study that test the toxicity or efficacy of a novel drug can last for 28 days to several years. Scientists don't make predications after 1 study day.

[bonita_the_frog]

One preseason game doesn't provide any real reason to believe that Flagg will be better than what we saw from Lebron as a rookie. It's difficult to articulate how inane a stance that is. There is the possibility that Flagg looks better than Lebron, but it's just not probable. Lebron was a 20/5/5 who thrived despite a properly dreadful circumstance. There's a good chance Flagg won't score 20 ppg, and he's not really the same level of playmaker Lebron was, nor is he a comparable athlete. It's EXCEPTIONALLY premature to be making that sort of projection.

Are you going to see him have his first crap game and say he's going to be a bust? Because that's the same plane of analysis you're occupying at the moment.

That's what scientists do, change their opinion when they learn more.
Everybody's opinion will change on Flagg at some point.
But I've never called a rookie a "bust", so highly unlikely.

Dude, I am in the preclinical field. So I actually do real science. A study that test the toxicity or efficacy of a novel drug can last for 28 days to several years. Scientists don't make predications after 1 study day.

Scientists make a hypothesis, while sports experts make a prediction (or in my case, an expectation), but both change their opinion when new information comes in.
When we change our sports opinion, can be after one pre-season game, or one regular season game, or an entire season... that's why we have a thread about Flagg's pre-season game.

[Bob8]

I don't think people are offended by suggestions that he'd reach KG's level: that's a best case scenario for basically any player ever coming into the league since him save maybe LeBron and Wemby.

But people can definitely quibble on whether it makes sense to compare them play style wise. Garnett is notably bigger. He measured 6'11" barefoot at the combine. Flagg measured 6'7.75". That's always going to change their profile a good bit. Flagg much more likely to be a wing/slasher and primary/secondary ball handler (though Garnett did work as a secondary - and occasionally even primary - ball handler at times) through out his career.

The quote was, "KG did not have the offensive capability or handle that Flagg has." That's not talking about play style.

My question is, which offensive capabilities and handle has Flagg and KG didn't have?

Range for one. KG shot .275 from 3 for his career and basically stopped taking them at all for the second half - which wasn't in ancient history and the league was valuing stretch 4/5s ever more at that point. He had a good jumper from basically the high school three point line (especially out to free throw line extended), but there is a reason that teams would back off of him and let him take those. Hitting 45% of a 2pt shot is better than your peers, but still not a super valuable shot. Maybe he'd have been better from 4 feet further if he had grown up in a different era, who knows, but he wasn't. Flagg is likely to be immediately better from distance.

Flagg's handle is also different. Garnett had a pretty amazing faceup based handle. Jab, hard dribble right. Continue for a baby jump hook or leaning short jumper or spin back to his left and likely fade. He wasn't actually amazing at getting to the rim on his own actions and that's one reason why he was never super efficient or high volume as a scorer. Flagg has a much more perimeter based handle and looks like he'll be able to be much more of a secondary ball handler and initiate actions more easily.

Garnett was a better post player, especially mid post, and I doubt Flagg will get to that level. Garnett was a great passer for his position. Flagg looks promising there, but different types of passes most likely.

80% of Nba players are better 3 pts shooters nowadays than KG was, that still doesn't mean they are better offensive players. MJ literally couldn't shoot for 3, when he averaged 37 points in RS.

About Flagg's handle, it wasn't anything special in College, so you have those 10 minutes against Okc's C squad on what you base your assumptions.

If we stay with ex. Mavs players, rookie Luka was better offensive player and much better ball handler and he wasn't even drafted first, because people were in love with physical attributes of some others. I admit that Flagg's body looks great, everything else is still work in progress. He's not particularly good in anything yet.

[Michaellam1987]

Flagg is good, particularly on the defensive end. But obviously he still have a long way to go offensively. Don't forget this game is against OKC without most of their top players.

[UcanUwill]

That's what scientists do, change their opinion when they learn more.
Everybody's opinion will change on Flagg at some point.
But I've never called a rookie a "bust", so highly unlikely.

Dude, I am in the preclinical field. So I actually do real science. A study that test the toxicity or efficacy of a novel drug can last for 28 days to several years. Scientists don't make predications after 1 study day.

Scientists make a hypothesis, while sports experts make a prediction (or in my case, an expectation), but both change their opinion when new information comes in.
When we change our sports opinion, can be after one pre-season game, or one regular season game, or an entire season... that's why we have a thread about Flagg's pre-season game.

Your prediction is ludicrous. Better than LeBron... If the guy has better year one than LeBron, it does not mean you should predict him being better than LeBron, thats just stupid logic, pace is not linear thing, but you compare your thesis to real science, please stop. Most rookies have better rookie seasons that what Jimmy Butler had, I do not predict them all to end up better than Jimmy Butler. We know what LeBrons career was, it is top 5 career ever, you do not just predict a guy to top that.

Some of the best players ever didn't win a single championship, some won one, and you just nonchalant expect Flagg to win 3-6 with all Finals MVPS? Dude, how about slow down a bit.

[knicksfan974]

Well I'll give about 0.0001% odds Flagg ever reaches or surpasses LeBron level. That doesn't mean Flagg couldn't turn out to be good player, I'm quite sure odds for that are quite good, but to reach the level of a generational once-in-a-generation talent like LeBron? Not likely.