Shams: Christian Braun Agrees to 5-yr/$125M Extension with the Denver Nuggets

[hauntedcomputer]

I feel if realgm were in charge 80 percent of the league would be making 20M+

The dilemma with Braun is he really hasn't demonstrated the consistency to show this kind of investment. One of the more frustrating parts of these types of discussions is they are always build on progression when the reality is young players also regress too.

He improved in pretty much everything every year and suits up, missing an average of three games a year. He is a reliable starter on a contending team. He's clearly proven an arc of progression and even if this is his ceiling that's worth $25m. Would you rather pay Shaedon Sharpe?

He's way closer to all-star than question mark.

[BelgradeNugget]

I feel if realgm were in charge 80 percent of the league would be making 20M+

The dilemma with Braun is he really hasn't demonstrated the consistency to show this kind of investment. One of the more frustrating parts of these types of discussions is they are always build on progression when the reality is young players also regress too.

This is a huge gamble for Denver that he can maintain those kind of efficiency numbers and that he will grow his game throughout the contract because he simply isn't worth 25M based on last season and last season is really the first year where he showed this kind of growth. I wouldn't have done the contract why not wait? Was this contract really not going to be there in a year? That is the main difference between Giddey and Braun is the Bulls didn't have much of a choice the Nuggets did. I would have waited.

A little secret Nuggets fans know. After watching him in the preseason there is better chance next year he will be worth closer to $30M than less than $25M. So this was the right time to sign him.
After being very good POA defender, improving during the year in that part of his game, 2nd best transition player in the NBA after Giannis, great feel for the game high IQ role player, cutter and spacer, he now added creation off of pnr. He is not hesitant on his 3pt shots any more - shot 39.7% last season, but sometimes didn't take shots he should.
He will surprise a lot of people this season, trust me

[MarcusBrody]

I feel if realgm were in charge 80 percent of the league would be making 20M+

The dilemma with Braun is he really hasn't demonstrated the consistency to show this kind of investment. One of the more frustrating parts of these types of discussions is they are always build on progression when the reality is young players also regress too.

This is a huge gamble for Denver that he can maintain those kind of efficiency numbers and that he will grow his game throughout the contract because he simply isn't worth 25M based on last season and last season is really the first year where he showed this kind of growth. I wouldn't have done the contract why not wait? Was this contract really not going to be there in a year? That is the main difference between Giddey and Braun is the Bulls didn't have much of a choice the Nuggets did. I would have waited.

He was probably the most constistent non-Jokic Nugget all last season. People don't seem to remember, but Aaron Gordon was a bit up and down as he struggled with a calf injury on and off all year. Murray and MPJ were their usual mercurial selves, and 6th man Westbrook was pretty much a human coin flip. Outside of Jokic, Braun was the player who you most knew what you would get every night.

[BelgradeNugget]

One little stat I stole from Nuggets reddit
Last season, playing with Jokic he averaged 15.4 points while shooting 58/40/83. In the 10 games he played without Jokic, he averaged 15.0 points while shooting 62/40/80

[dhsilv2]

I feel if realgm were in charge 80 percent of the league would be making 20M+

The dilemma with Braun is he really hasn't demonstrated the consistency to show this kind of investment. One of the more frustrating parts of these types of discussions is they are always build on progression when the reality is young players also regress too.

This is a huge gamble for Denver that he can maintain those kind of efficiency numbers and that he will grow his game throughout the contract because he simply isn't worth 25M based on last season and last season is really the first year where he showed this kind of growth. I wouldn't have done the contract why not wait? Was this contract really not going to be there in a year? That is the main difference between Giddey and Braun is the Bulls didn't have much of a choice the Nuggets did. I would have waited.

113 players are scheduled to make 18 or more next year. That's essentially 75% of starters and rookie deals make up a lot of starters. Bottom line, the 21 he'll make next year isn't hoping for upside. It's just fair market value for a guy who's good enough to be the 3rd or 4th best player on a playoff team. If you're good enough to start you should be making over 20 a year when his deal ends. That's where the market and cap are right now.

[reload141]

Damn, I hope this guy grows into an all-star

What I find amusing is when people say “overrated” “this player is better” etc etc

Okay, well let’s say Denver doesn’t sign Braun. Given their cap space (or lack thereof) realistically who do they sign?

That's a terrible way manage your cap, don't overpay people for just being competent. Then down the line you find a player you actually want but now you can't pay him because all your cap is tied up in a bunch of role-players who otherwise would've been valuable assets in a trade but now you can't even move them because nobody will take their salary.

So…. Over the next 4 years and their cap space who could they trade/sign that would be better?

Keep in mind that the cap is going up and this contract isn’t really a big deal

[TheShow2021]

He is not hesitant on his 3pt shots any more - shot 39.7% last season, but sometimes didn't take shots he should.
He will surprise a lot of people this season, trust me

I feel one of the biggest things negatively affecting Denver's offense was Braun and AG's hesitancy outside the arc.

[nomansland]

He is not hesitant on his 3pt shots any more - shot 39.7% last season, but sometimes didn't take shots he should.
He will surprise a lot of people this season, trust me

I feel one of the biggest things negatively affecting Denver's offense was Braun and AG's hesitancy outside the arc.

Braun was reluctant shooting from 3 and his release was a bit slow, but at least from what we've seen in pre-season, that's been improved. Anyway he was hitting at a high rate so let's see him shoot a few more per game.

AG is a different story. He wasn't hesitant, despite being injured and despite it being the first year he really kind of broke out as a high percentage 3 point shooter.

Either way, Denver's offense was top 3 last season, so while it could have been better, it wasn't a problem.

I'd like to see Braun get a little better at fighting through and over screens. In the pre-season game against the Clippers, Harden and Zubac ran an action 6 times in a row to get Braun off of Harden and it worked nearly every time. So let's see what he can do there and improve in other small ways on defense. The offense will be there.

[Twizlers]

I feel if realgm were in charge 80 percent of the league would be making 20M+

The dilemma with Braun is he really hasn't demonstrated the consistency to show this kind of investment. One of the more frustrating parts of these types of discussions is they are always build on progression when the reality is young players also regress too.

This is a huge gamble for Denver that he can maintain those kind of efficiency numbers and that he will grow his game throughout the contract because he simply isn't worth 25M based on last season and last season is really the first year where he showed this kind of growth. I wouldn't have done the contract why not wait? Was this contract really not going to be there in a year? That is the main difference between Giddey and Braun is the Bulls didn't have much of a choice the Nuggets did. I would have waited.

Most long term contracts are a huge gamble for the team. You never can predict the future. And if they waited another year, a year when the Nuggets are all but favored to win the Finals with this stacked roster, and the fact that Braun has improved significantly each year he’s been in the league, the Nuggets could easily be looking at $30M+.

[durden_tyler]

Is he really good enough to get Josh Giddey money?

Is Josh Giddey good enough to get Braun money?

[PushDaRock]

I feel if realgm were in charge 80 percent of the league would be making 20M+

The dilemma with Braun is he really hasn't demonstrated the consistency to show this kind of investment. One of the more frustrating parts of these types of discussions is they are always build on progression when the reality is young players also regress too.

This is a huge gamble for Denver that he can maintain those kind of efficiency numbers and that he will grow his game throughout the contract because he simply isn't worth 25M based on last season and last season is really the first year where he showed this kind of growth. I wouldn't have done the contract why not wait? Was this contract really not going to be there in a year? That is the main difference between Giddey and Braun is the Bulls didn't have much of a choice the Nuggets did. I would have waited.

People just want Max players, rookie deals, vet mins and exceptions. Basically the destruction of the middle class.

[Sixers in 4]

I feel if realgm were in charge 80 percent of the league would be making 20M+

The dilemma with Braun is he really hasn't demonstrated the consistency to show this kind of investment. One of the more frustrating parts of these types of discussions is they are always build on progression when the reality is young players also regress too.

This is a huge gamble for Denver that he can maintain those kind of efficiency numbers and that he will grow his game throughout the contract because he simply isn't worth 25M based on last season and last season is really the first year where he showed this kind of growth. I wouldn't have done the contract why not wait? Was this contract really not going to be there in a year? That is the main difference between Giddey and Braun is the Bulls didn't have much of a choice the Nuggets did. I would have waited.

Most long term contracts are a huge gamble for the team. You never can predict the future. And if they waited another year, a year when the Nuggets are all but favored to win the Finals with this stacked roster, and the fact that Braun has improved significantly each year he’s been in the league, the Nuggets could easily be looking at $30M+.

Based on what? Braun would have been a RFA. Here is what I think I think NBA GM are extremely dumb and often extend players when they don't need to and constantly bid against themselves.

[ConSarnit]

Damn, I hope this guy grows into an all-star

What I find amusing is when people say “overrated” “this player is better” etc etc

Okay, well let’s say Denver doesn’t sign Braun. Given their cap space (or lack thereof) realistically who do they sign?

That's a terrible way manage your cap, don't overpay people for just being competent. Then down the line you find a player you actually want but now you can't pay him because all your cap is tied up in a bunch of role-players who otherwise would've been valuable assets in a trade but now you can't even move them because nobody will take their salary.

So…. Over the next 4 years and their cap space who could they trade/sign that would be better?

Keep in mind that the cap is going up and this contract isn’t really a big deal

It’s going to cost the Nuggets something for sure. They already have a cheap owner. Once Gordon’s extension kicks in they’re going to be a 1st apron team. When you overpay a bunch of guys (Murray, Gordon, probably Braun) it’s going to cost you elsewhere. How do they bring back Watson if he has a breakout season? How do they replace JV with another solid backup C (something they’ve lacked forever). Johnson and Jokic are both effectively expiring next year and will need new contracts (ie raises).

The threat of RFA just isn’t there anymore. Who is the highest profile RFA who has been poached in the last 5 years? Alexander-Walker, who got the MLE? How much better is Braun than NAW? Not much if at all imo.

If you’re a cheap team like the Nuggets you should be leaning on these guys more. You can’t just give these guys everything AND be cheap because it comes back to bite you.

Ultimately I just don’t see how much better Braun is compared to someone like NAW who just got the MLE as an RFA. Braun has some upside but I don’t think it’s worth 50% more than NAW.

[MarcusBrody]

Damn, I hope this guy grows into an all-star



That's a terrible way manage your cap, don't overpay people for just being competent. Then down the line you find a player you actually want but now you can't pay him because all your cap is tied up in a bunch of role-players who otherwise would've been valuable assets in a trade but now you can't even move them because nobody will take their salary.

So…. Over the next 4 years and their cap space who could they trade/sign that would be better?

Keep in mind that the cap is going up and this contract isn’t really a big deal

It’s going to cost the Nuggets something for sure. They already have a cheap owner. Once Gordon’s extension kicks in they’re going to be a 1st apron team. When you overpay a bunch of guys (Murray, Gordon, probably Braun) it’s going to cost you elsewhere. How do they bring back Watson if he has a breakout season? How do they replace JV with another solid backup C (something they’ve lacked forever). Johnson and Jokic are both effectively expiring next year and will need new contracts (ie raises).

The threat of RFA just isn’t there anymore. Who is the highest profile RFA who has been poached in the last 5 years? Alexander-Walker, who got the MLE? How much better is Braun than NAW? Not much if at all imo.

If you’re a cheap team like the Nuggets you should be leaning on these guys more. You can’t just give these guys everything AND be cheap because it comes back to bite you.

Ultimately I just don’t see how much better Braun is compared to someone like NAW who just got the MLE as an RFA. Braun has some upside but I don’t think it’s worth 50% more than NAW.

Braun had a more productive season than NAW ever had last season and he's 3 years younger. So the baseline is already higher before you even consider greater potential for growth. Braun scored more (both in absolute terms and when conditioned for playing time) at much higher efficiency (.665 vs .579 TS%). Braun is an inch taller and uses it both to defend strong wings more effectively and to finish around the rim. NAW is a 3 point shooter. He takes 2/3 of his attempts from that range. Braun is more versatile and is a much better cutter/transition player, which works well with Jokic.

Basically you're seeing the difference in pay between an excellent bench player and a solid starter on a contender.

[ConSarnit]

So…. Over the next 4 years and their cap space who could they trade/sign that would be better?

Keep in mind that the cap is going up and this contract isn’t really a big deal

It’s going to cost the Nuggets something for sure. They already have a cheap owner. Once Gordon’s extension kicks in they’re going to be a 1st apron team. When you overpay a bunch of guys (Murray, Gordon, probably Braun) it’s going to cost you elsewhere. How do they bring back Watson if he has a breakout season? How do they replace JV with another solid backup C (something they’ve lacked forever). Johnson and Jokic are both effectively expiring next year and will need new contracts (ie raises).

The threat of RFA just isn’t there anymore. Who is the highest profile RFA who has been poached in the last 5 years? Alexander-Walker, who got the MLE? How much better is Braun than NAW? Not much if at all imo.

If you’re a cheap team like the Nuggets you should be leaning on these guys more. You can’t just give these guys everything AND be cheap because it comes back to bite you.

Ultimately I just don’t see how much better Braun is compared to someone like NAW who just got the MLE as an RFA. Braun has some upside but I don’t think it’s worth 50% more than NAW.

Braun had a more productive season than NAW ever had last season and he's 3 years younger. So the baseline is already higher before you even consider greater potential for growth. Braun scored more (both in absolute terms and when conditioned for playing time) at much higher efficiency (.665 vs .579 TS%). Braun is an inch taller and uses it both to defend strong wings more effectively and to finish around the rim. NAW is a 3 point shooter. He takes 2/3 of his attempts from that range. Braun is more versatile and is a much better cutter/transition player, which works well with Jokic.

Basically you're seeing the difference in pay between an excellent bench player and a solid starter on a contender.

I think NAW is a better defender than Braun and that closes the gap. NAW also takes a higher volume of 3's and makes them at the same rate. Braun's 3pt volume is exceedingly low for a SG. Braun is a better cutter and better in transition but how much of that is from playing with Jokic? NAW has also been a bench guy because he's been playing behind the best SG in the league. It feels like he could be a solid 3+D starter if given the chance (though not a top 15 SG or anything).

I think if you put NAW on DEN his impact would be very similar to Braun. Better defense. More 3pt volume. Less transition and cutting but how much is Jokic bump worth? Tough to say. Braun still has some upside so I can see why he got more money but I think DEN would have been wiser to apply some pressure given their salary situation and their reluctance to pay the tax.

I don't think Braun is massively overpaid or anything but if you're going to be cheap (like DEN is) it's not wise to pay everyone at the top of their range. I would have squeezed harder and took the risk in RFA.

[BelgradeNugget]

It’s going to cost the Nuggets something for sure. They already have a cheap owner. Once Gordon’s extension kicks in they’re going to be a 1st apron team. When you overpay a bunch of guys (Murray, Gordon, probably Braun) it’s going to cost you elsewhere. How do they bring back Watson if he has a breakout season? How do they replace JV with another solid backup C (something they’ve lacked forever). Johnson and Jokic are both effectively expiring next year and will need new contracts (ie raises).

The threat of RFA just isn’t there anymore. Who is the highest profile RFA who has been poached in the last 5 years? Alexander-Walker, who got the MLE? How much better is Braun than NAW? Not much if at all imo.

If you’re a cheap team like the Nuggets you should be leaning on these guys more. You can’t just give these guys everything AND be cheap because it comes back to bite you.

Ultimately I just don’t see how much better Braun is compared to someone like NAW who just got the MLE as an RFA. Braun has some upside but I don’t think it’s worth 50% more than NAW.

Braun had a more productive season than NAW ever had last season and he's 3 years younger. So the baseline is already higher before you even consider greater potential for growth. Braun scored more (both in absolute terms and when conditioned for playing time) at much higher efficiency (.665 vs .579 TS%). Braun is an inch taller and uses it both to defend strong wings more effectively and to finish around the rim. NAW is a 3 point shooter. He takes 2/3 of his attempts from that range. Braun is more versatile and is a much better cutter/transition player, which works well with Jokic.

Basically you're seeing the difference in pay between an excellent bench player and a solid starter on a contender.

I think NAW is a better defender than Braun and that closes the gap. NAW also takes a higher volume of 3's and makes them at the same rate. Braun's 3pt volume is exceedingly low for a SG. Braun is a better cutter and better in transition but how much of that is from playing with Jokic? NAW has also been a bench guy because he's been playing behind the best SG in the league. It feels like he could be a solid 3+D starter if given the chance (though not a top 15 SG or anything).

I think if you put NAW on DEN his impact would be very similar to Braun. Better defense. More 3pt volume. Less transition and cutting but how much is Jokic bump worth? Tough to say. Braun still has some upside so I can see why he got more money but I think DEN would have been wiser to apply some pressure given their salary situation and their reluctance to pay the tax.

I don't think Braun is massively overpaid or anything but if you're going to be cheap (like DEN is) it's not wise to pay everyone at the top of their range. I would have squeezed harder and took the risk in RFA.

Just one question. Where did you get idea Nuggets are cheap and reluctant to pay tax? Here is where they ranked in highest payroles in the NBA in the last 4 seasons

21/22 - 10th, tax bill $0
22/23 - 8th, tax bill $17,302,510
23/24 - 6th, tax bill $20,240,495
24/25 - 6th, tax bill $20,356,788

It is easy to check before posting. So in one post you acussed them of being cheap and overspending? Makes sense.

[og15]

I feel if realgm were in charge 80 percent of the league would be making 20M+

The dilemma with Braun is he really hasn't demonstrated the consistency to show this kind of investment. One of the more frustrating parts of these types of discussions is they are always build on progression when the reality is young players also regress too.

This is a huge gamble for Denver that he can maintain those kind of efficiency numbers and that he will grow his game throughout the contract because he simply isn't worth 25M based on last season and last season is really the first year where he showed this kind of growth. I wouldn't have done the contract why not wait? Was this contract really not going to be there in a year? That is the main difference between Giddey and Braun is the Bulls didn't have much of a choice the Nuggets did. I would have waited.

113 players are scheduled to make 18 or more next year. That's essentially 75% of starters and rookie deals make up a lot of starters. Bottom line, the 21 he'll make next year isn't hoping for upside. It's just fair market value for a guy who's good enough to be the 3rd or 4th best player on a playoff team. If you're good enough to start you should be making over 20 a year when his deal ends. That's where the market and cap are right now.

Yea, one has to look at this in relation to the salary cap. $20+ million now is not what is used to be. The salary cap this year is $154.647 million, $20 million is 12.9% of the salary cap.

In 13-14, the salary cap was $58.679 million, 12.9% of the cap then was $7.6 million. Here are the salaries in 2013-2014:
https://www.espn.com/nba/salaries/_/year/2014/seasontype/1

83 players (#83 was Taj Gibson at $7.55 million) made ~$7.6 million or more, so around 2.8 players per team.

This season, 90 players make $20 million or more (#90 is Jarret Allen at $20.0 million), so around 3 players per team.

This is around the amount that guys like John Salmons, Trevor Ariza, Ilyasova, George Hill, Jeff Teague, OJ Mayo, Marcus Thornton, etc were making in 2013-2014.

[zero rings]

I feel if realgm were in charge 80 percent of the league would be making 20M+

The dilemma with Braun is he really hasn't demonstrated the consistency to show this kind of investment. One of the more frustrating parts of these types of discussions is they are always build on progression when the reality is young players also regress too.

This is a huge gamble for Denver that he can maintain those kind of efficiency numbers and that he will grow his game throughout the contract because he simply isn't worth 25M based on last season and last season is really the first year where he showed this kind of growth. I wouldn't have done the contract why not wait? Was this contract really not going to be there in a year? That is the main difference between Giddey and Braun is the Bulls didn't have much of a choice the Nuggets did. I would have waited.

Most long term contracts are a huge gamble for the team. You never can predict the future. And if they waited another year, a year when the Nuggets are all but favored to win the Finals with this stacked roster, and the fact that Braun has improved significantly each year he’s been in the league, the Nuggets could easily be looking at $30M+.

Based on what? Braun would have been a RFA. Here is what I think I think NBA GM are extremely dumb and often extend players when they don't need to and constantly bid against themselves.

Braun is worth the $25 million, and I don’t see him getting cheaper in RFA. Might as well pay him now and keep him happy.

The real albatross contract is Murray’s. No other team was going to pay him $50+ million annually.

[BigGargamel]

I feel if realgm were in charge 80 percent of the league would be making 20M+

The dilemma with Braun is he really hasn't demonstrated the consistency to show this kind of investment. One of the more frustrating parts of these types of discussions is they are always build on progression when the reality is young players also regress too.

This is a huge gamble for Denver that he can maintain those kind of efficiency numbers and that he will grow his game throughout the contract because he simply isn't worth 25M based on last season and last season is really the first year where he showed this kind of growth. I wouldn't have done the contract why not wait? Was this contract really not going to be there in a year? That is the main difference between Giddey and Braun is the Bulls didn't have much of a choice the Nuggets did. I would have waited.

A little secret Nuggets fans know. After watching him in the preseason there is better chance next year he will be worth closer to $30M than less than $25M. So this was the right time to sign him.
After being very good POA defender, improving during the year in that part of his game, 2nd best transition player in the NBA after Giannis, great feel for the game high IQ role player, cutter and spacer, he now added creation off of pnr. He is not hesitant on his 3pt shots any more - shot 39.7% last season, but sometimes didn't take shots he should.
He will surprise a lot of people this season, trust me

Some people on here jump in every thread with their expert opinions, when it's pretty much impossible to follow every team and know about every player. Nuggets fans know Braun is worth it. I'm not going to go in the Toumani Camara thread and pretend that I know the ins and outs of how good that guy is and how valuable he is to Portland because I don't watch them like that.

The post you quoted really was a bunch of words that did not really say anything. Just the usual "consistency" buzz words. Thank you for taking the time to actually show why he was worth it, but fans are stubborn and won't really listen like that.

[ConSarnit]

Braun had a more productive season than NAW ever had last season and he's 3 years younger. So the baseline is already higher before you even consider greater potential for growth. Braun scored more (both in absolute terms and when conditioned for playing time) at much higher efficiency (.665 vs .579 TS%). Braun is an inch taller and uses it both to defend strong wings more effectively and to finish around the rim. NAW is a 3 point shooter. He takes 2/3 of his attempts from that range. Braun is more versatile and is a much better cutter/transition player, which works well with Jokic.

Basically you're seeing the difference in pay between an excellent bench player and a solid starter on a contender.

I think NAW is a better defender than Braun and that closes the gap. NAW also takes a higher volume of 3's and makes them at the same rate. Braun's 3pt volume is exceedingly low for a SG. Braun is a better cutter and better in transition but how much of that is from playing with Jokic? NAW has also been a bench guy because he's been playing behind the best SG in the league. It feels like he could be a solid 3+D starter if given the chance (though not a top 15 SG or anything).

I think if you put NAW on DEN his impact would be very similar to Braun. Better defense. More 3pt volume. Less transition and cutting but how much is Jokic bump worth? Tough to say. Braun still has some upside so I can see why he got more money but I think DEN would have been wiser to apply some pressure given their salary situation and their reluctance to pay the tax.

I don't think Braun is massively overpaid or anything but if you're going to be cheap (like DEN is) it's not wise to pay everyone at the top of their range. I would have squeezed harder and took the risk in RFA.

Just one question. Where did you get idea Nuggets are cheap and reluctant to pay tax? Here is where they ranked in highest payroles in the NBA in the last 4 seasons

21/22 - 10th, tax bill $0
22/23 - 8th, tax bill $17,302,510
23/24 - 6th, tax bill $20,240,495
24/25 - 6th, tax bill $20,356,788

It is easy to check before posting. So in one post you acussed them of being cheap and overspending? Makes sense.

You’ve had the best player in the league for 4-5 years. Compared to other contenders you have not spent much at all.

Reggie Jackson. MPJ + a pick to get off salary. Letting KCP walk. Bruce Brown too. Your team won’t go anywhere near the 2nd apron. Every year you’ve cheaped out on putting the best team on the floor. You didn’t have to do most of these moves. You could have used that MPJ 1st to upgrade your team while keeping MPJ.

The MPJ trade illustrates my point: you overpay these guys and then have to use picks to dump them in an effort to save money. This wouldn’t be as much of an issue if your owner (net worth $20b) was willing to eat a couple large tax bills but you end up selling you roster short because you have to use picks to get off overpaid players. MPJ-like contracts cost you guys like Brown/KCP.

For a team that has been a contender year in and year out your ownership has never gone above and beyond to try and win. If you want to contend but you’ve got a seemingly $20m tax ceiling you need to do better on contracts because the margins are narrower. If everyone outside of Jokic is overpaid by somewhere between $3–10m per year that adds up, costs you depth and you’re staring at Deandre Jordan as your backup C.