Nikola Jokic wins MVP(again)

[AleksandarN]

Why haven't we gotten rid of MVP of the regular season yet? MVP of the whole season including the playoffs would be so much better.

Hmm I guess like the MLB, NHL and NFL oh wait...

[gorz]

i think embiid had (is having) a great year and is certainly worthy of all the mvp talk... i just happen to think jokic deserves it more.

why is there a large contingent who think embiid deserves it more but can't admit that jokic too can be deserving and resort to all sorts of silly arguments to minimize his accomplishments?

frankly i don't see how anyone that enjoys basketball can watch jokic play and not enjoy it. and i'm not gonna lie, seeing all the jokic haters seething makes the fact that he won a lil more enjoyable.

I think most ppl acknowledge jokic is deserving just not the most deserving. As someone already pointed out jokic can possibly have his team #1 or #2 next year with fully healthy murray and post similar stats or better and be in the running for mvp again next year. Which is why it is was wrong the media voters badly snubbed Embiid bc as good as jokic played this season his team record was so low to warrant receiving tge mvp when the following year jokic team could have much better record and posts similar stats as he did this year.the return of murray and mpj is not going to reduce his stats across the board or usage. In other words the bar was set low for jokic to win mvp this season that he could easily surpass that next year and win it again. That being said I don't believe the nuggets will get top seed but even if they did jokic will not win it next season if it that were to occur due to voter fatigue similar to giannis or lebron situation and they will push tge embiid snubbed mvp narrative next season. Embiid is still the superior player even if he has no mvp. Just like Nash wasn't better than Dirk despite having 1 more hardware.

For the last time:
- Jokic won more games than Embiid this year in games played
- The Sixers and Nuggets were separated by 3 team wins

There is simply no "wins" argument for Embiid to be had in this conversation. Are you arguing that Jokic can win more but Embiid can't therefore we should give it to Embiid? What is this, charity?

That number is misleading. Embiid missed 9 games due to covid protocols. During that stretch sixers were 2-7 in Embiids absence. Had he not missed those games the gap would be greater and most likely the sixers end up w/ the #1 seed in the stronger conference. Sixers also have a better record against above 500 teams than nuggets.

[AleksandarN]

Why haven't we gotten rid of MVP of the regular season yet? MVP of the whole season including the playoffs would be so much better.

I think you then run the risk of overreacting to one series as opposed to the entire body of work.

I think it would make more sense to have regular season MVP and playoff MVP, although that would probably dilute the Finals MVP award.

I don't see the problem anyway. Jokic was arguably the best player in the NBA during the regular season. Nobody expected him to win a round in the playoffs,

i agree
this is the modern NBA MVP bar

its funny as hell someone tried to troll me about LaMelo earlier in this thread. LaMelo got more hate for losing a couple play-in games at age 19-20 than Jokic gets for losing in the first round as a 2x MVP. same with Trae. i don't get why the standards are so low for the guy

You make it sound like there wasn't a time when Kareem won the MVP with a worse record than Jokic heck Kareem didn't even make the playoffs that year. Or the first two MVPs Moses won with team records of 47 and 46 wins respectively. You make it sound like this is just a modern thing.

[Slade3]

Lol Another 1st round exit MVP, congrats but they need to start giving this award to players that actually win.

It's a regular season MVP. Post season has no relevance.

[ForeverTFC]

I think most ppl acknowledge jokic is deserving just not the most deserving. As someone already pointed out jokic can possibly have his team #1 or #2 next year with fully healthy murray and post similar stats or better and be in the running for mvp again next year. Which is why it is was wrong the media voters badly snubbed Embiid bc as good as jokic played this season his team record was so low to warrant receiving tge mvp when the following year jokic team could have much better record and posts similar stats as he did this year.the return of murray and mpj is not going to reduce his stats across the board or usage. In other words the bar was set low for jokic to win mvp this season that he could easily surpass that next year and win it again. That being said I don't believe the nuggets will get top seed but even if they did jokic will not win it next season if it that were to occur due to voter fatigue similar to giannis or lebron situation and they will push tge embiid snubbed mvp narrative next season. Embiid is still the superior player even if he has no mvp. Just like Nash wasn't better than Dirk despite having 1 more hardware.

For the last time:
- Jokic won more games than Embiid this year in games played
- The Sixers and Nuggets were separated by 3 team wins

There is simply no "wins" argument for Embiid to be had in this conversation. Are you arguing that Jokic can win more but Embiid can't therefore we should give it to Embiid? What is this, charity?

That number is misleading. Embiid missed 9 games due to covid protocols. During that stretch sixers were 2-7 in Embiids absence. Had he not missed those games the gap would be greater and most likely the sixers end up w/ the #1 seed in the stronger conference. Sixers also have a better record against above 500 teams than nuggets.

Bud, you know we all have the internet right?
- Sixers without Embiid this season: 6-8, with Embiid: 45-23
- Nuggets without Jokic this season: 2-6, with Jokic: 46-28

If you calculate the expected wins if both played all games at their current win %, Sixers would finish 54-28 and Nuggets would finish 51-31.

You all keep talking about Embiid having a bunch more wins or Jokic losing in the first round 2 years in a row like we all don't have the internet and can't look this stuff up. Do none of you recognize how ridiculous this is?

[azcatz11]

Congrats to Joker but everyone deserves to have an opinion. I honestly don’t understand the hostility the pro Embiid fans are experiencing but I guess people like teaming up on the under dog

[eathb_au]

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

But for whatever reason, people are using his supporting cast of Aaron Gordon and Will Barton against him.

[DoItALL9]

Analytics also said prime Harden was better than Jordan offensively

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Except they didn't.

Harden had 3 seasons with an OBPM over +8.0. Jordan had 7.

Harden had one season with a BPM over +10.0. Jordan had 7.

Harden had a higher TS% multiple seasons, sure, but so did two dozen other players this decade. You can't just compare TS% across eras without context.

Fortunately, we are comparing two players who are the same age, play the same position, and play in the same era here. It's a straightforward comparison, and Jokic had the better season.

These anti analytics guys always remind me of that Futurama scene - I don't understand evolution, and I protect my kids from understanding it. Just replace the word evolution to analytics, its sad that the most ignorant ones are often the loudest.

https://youtu.be/9zw3UnEWgRI

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[Cubbies2120]

Congrats to Joker but everyone deserves to have an opinion. I honestly don’t understand the hostility the pro Embiid fans are experiencing but I guess people like teaming up on the under dog

You don’t understand the “hostility” people who are coming into a Jokic celebration thread putting down the repeat MVP are facing? You can’t think of why that could be?

What about the pro-Jokic fans in here celebrating his MVP and getting quoted by salty fans of other players, that’s not hostility right?

[AleksandarN]

It’s embarrassing the mvp came from a 6th seed

Nuggets won 48 games
Sixers/Bucks won 51
Does 3 wins make or break an MVP case?

Being a first-round exit team in back-to-back season as the back-to-back MVP is just tragic.

What's tragic is thinking Jokic lost in the first round back to back. This is the first in his entire career he lost in the first round.

[DoItALL9]

Analytics also said prime Harden was better than Jordan offensively

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Except they didn't.

Harden had 3 seasons with an OBPM over +8.0. Jordan had 7.

Harden had one season with a BPM over +10.0. Jordan had 7.

Harden had a higher TS% multiple seasons, sure, but so did two dozen other players this decade. You can't just compare TS% across eras without context.

Fortunately, we are comparing two players who are the same age, play the same position, and play in the same era here. It's a straightforward comparison, and Jokic had the better season.

Maybe Morey didn't value the same stats you did or your arbitrary BPM & OBPM cut off numbers

https://youtu.be/62p9iSKRsUU

Enjoy whichever statistics you choose


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[azcatz11]

Congrats to Joker but everyone deserves to have an opinion. I honestly don’t understand the hostility the pro Embiid fans are experiencing but I guess people like teaming up on the under dog

You don’t understand the “hostility” people who are coming into a Jokic celebration thread putting down the repeat MVP are facing? You can’t think of why that could be?

What about the pro-Jokic fans in here celebrating his MVP and getting quoted by salty fans of other players, that’s not hostility right?

I believe the MVP thread should be open to criticism and if everyone just said “congrats Jokic” that would be a boring thread. It seems to me like people are piling on the Pro-Embiid crowd as a form of a witch hunt

[Cubbies2120]

I think most ppl acknowledge jokic is deserving just not the most deserving. As someone already pointed out jokic can possibly have his team #1 or #2 next year with fully healthy murray and post similar stats or better and be in the running for mvp again next year. Which is why it is was wrong the media voters badly snubbed Embiid bc as good as jokic played this season his team record was so low to warrant receiving tge mvp when the following year jokic team could have much better record and posts similar stats as he did this year.the return of murray and mpj is not going to reduce his stats across the board or usage. In other words the bar was set low for jokic to win mvp this season that he could easily surpass that next year and win it again. That being said I don't believe the nuggets will get top seed but even if they did jokic will not win it next season if it that were to occur due to voter fatigue similar to giannis or lebron situation and they will push tge embiid snubbed mvp narrative next season. Embiid is still the superior player even if he has no mvp. Just like Nash wasn't better than Dirk despite having 1 more hardware.

For the last time:
- Jokic won more games than Embiid this year in games played
- The Sixers and Nuggets were separated by 3 team wins

There is simply no "wins" argument for Embiid to be had in this conversation. Are you arguing that Jokic can win more but Embiid can't therefore we should give it to Embiid? What is this, charity?

That number is misleading. Embiid missed 9 games due to covid protocols. During that stretch sixers were 2-7 in Embiids absence. Had he not missed those games the gap would be greater and most likely the sixers end up w/ the #1 seed in the stronger conference. Sixers also have a better record against above 500 teams than nuggets.

Ahh we’re doing hypotheticals?!

In the 10 games the Nuggets had Gordon/MPJ/Murray/Jokic all playing together they had a 133points per 100 possessions.

For reference, the highest points per 100 possessions team was 116 this year.

We can infer that based on the sample size we had, they would have had the GOAT offense right? Oh and they also held teams to 32% 3 point shooting during that span.

[Cubbies2120]

Congrats to Joker but everyone deserves to have an opinion. I honestly don’t understand the hostility the pro Embiid fans are experiencing but I guess people like teaming up on the under dog

You don’t understand the “hostility” people who are coming into a Jokic celebration thread putting down the repeat MVP are facing? You can’t think of why that could be?

What about the pro-Jokic fans in here celebrating his MVP and getting quoted by salty fans of other players, that’s not hostility right?

I believe the MVP thread should be open to criticism and if everyone just said “congrats Jokic” that would be a boring thread. It seems to me like people are piling on the Pro-Embiid crowd as a form of a witch hunt

If refuting false statements with objective statistics is a witch hunt, then hand me a pitchfork!

[azcatz11]

You don’t understand the “hostility” people who are coming into a Jokic celebration thread putting down the repeat MVP are facing? You can’t think of why that could be?

What about the pro-Jokic fans in here celebrating his MVP and getting quoted by salty fans of other players, that’s not hostility right?

I believe the MVP thread should be open to criticism and if everyone just said “congrats Jokic” that would be a boring thread. It seems to me like people are piling on the Pro-Embiid crowd as a form of a witch hunt

If refuting false statements with objective statistics is a witch hunt, then hand me a pitchfork!

I’ve seen compelling evidence to the contrary including people who have no idea what raptor or Jurassic park or whatever the popular advanced stat is of the month. Zach Lowe has been propping him up for months which is probably why he won

[Big J]

I believe the MVP thread should be open to criticism and if everyone just said “congrats Jokic” that would be a boring thread. It seems to me like people are piling on the Pro-Embiid crowd as a form of a witch hunt

If refuting false statements with objective statistics is a witch hunt, then hand me a pitchfork!

I’ve seen compelling evidence to the contrary including people who have no idea what raptor or Jurassic park or whatever the popular advanced stat is of the month. Zach Lowe has been propping him up for months which is probably why he won

Zach Lowe is a relative nobody. Does he seriously have that much influence?

[azcatz11]

If refuting false statements with objective statistics is a witch hunt, then hand me a pitchfork!

I’ve seen compelling evidence to the contrary including people who have no idea what raptor or Jurassic park or whatever the popular advanced stat is of the month. Zach Lowe has been propping him up for months which is probably why he won

Zach Lowe is a relative nobody. Does he seriously have that much influence?

Yes - he has a ton of influence. He influences people like Bill Simmons, etc. He's been pushing the Jokic train for a year now and I'm not saying that's wrong but he has

[Cubbies2120]

I believe the MVP thread should be open to criticism and if everyone just said “congrats Jokic” that would be a boring thread. It seems to me like people are piling on the Pro-Embiid crowd as a form of a witch hunt

If refuting false statements with objective statistics is a witch hunt, then hand me a pitchfork!

I’ve seen compelling evidence to the contrary including people who have no idea what raptor or Jurassic park or whatever the popular advanced stat is of the month. Zach Lowe has been propping him up for months which is probably why he won

If it was 1 or 2 stats you want to discredit, sure, do that.

What about the other 30 or 40 Jokic leads Embiid in, including wins participated in?

But sure, one media member is the reason why he won I guess.

[NetsJets]

The MVP has never been a “best stat” award or else Kobe should’ve won it over Nash in 06. Stat is the only argument Jokic has and this essentially sets a precedent and I hope the same energy is kept going forward….

[Cubbies2120]

I’ve seen compelling evidence to the contrary including people who have no idea what raptor or Jurassic park or whatever the popular advanced stat is of the month. Zach Lowe has been propping him up for months which is probably why he won

Zach Lowe is a relative nobody. Does he seriously have that much influence?

Yes - he has a ton of influence. He influences people like Bill Simmons, etc. He's been pushing the Jokic train for a year now and I'm not saying that's wrong but he has

What evidence do you have of this besides "Trust me, bro"?

I can say Broussard, SAS, etc. have influence, because, trust me bro.