2025 NBA PLAYOFFS East Semifinals: #1 Cleveland Cavaliers vs #4 Indiana Pacers (IND leads 2-0)

[brackdan70]

So now we call fouls like last one against Hali in playoffs or in general?

It was a disgusting foul to call. Indiana has gotten so many breaks in this series, they didn’t need that from the officials.

The elbow from Mitchell? I think that gets called 99% of the time.

[Gordon]

Cavs were gassed at the end, but still feel like they win this if not for bad officiating. Nesmith should have been called for lane violation on a putback dunk, and then potentially for flagrant on Mitchell afterwards. Mitchell also deserved flagrant for revenge on the ensuing possession, but the worst call was last foul on Haliburton which was non-existant.

[JujitsuFlip]

Mind blown. I had to get to bed early and looked at the score thought it was over with a minute left.
Just watching replay of the last minute.
Did Cavs not have a timeout at the end?

Nope, used it with like 21 or 27 seconds, was not wise but this was Kenny's 11th playoff game, he's learning right along with his core.

It's not like he has 30 post season games under his belt or even in Carlisle's case 158 post season games coached.

[hardenASG13]

I’ve said it during the regular season but i’ll reiterate it now, the Cavs are the biggest 60+ win frauds in history. Lucky break for Indy to the ECF 2 years in a row. WP.

That team tonight wasn't the 60 plus win cavs. Game 1, they came out flat yes (still without Garland). Their team is extremely good when whole, hopefully they get their guys out there for game 3. It's surprising Jerome was so bad, he was money all year when they needed him. I guess you could say he's a fraud. Also surprising Garland can't get out there with a sprained toe. I know he'd probably struggle with his movements but that seems like something they could numb and he could gut it out. I think he/Mobley will get back for game 3.

[Hoop Hunter]

Cavs were gassed at the end, but still feel like they win this if not for bad officiating. Nesmith should have been called for lane violation on a putback dunk, and then potentially for flagrant on Mitchell afterwards. Mitchell also deserved flagrant for revenge on the ensuing possession, but the worst call was last foul on Haliburton which was non-existant.

Most of the **** load of fouls called for Mitchell were exactly like that foul called for Haliburton.

No lane violation, the ball was out of Siakim's hands before Nesmith crossed the line. Replayed it several times. Look at it.

Flagrant on Nesmith after the put back dunk? really? Should have been a "and one" and foul on Mitchell. Mitchell put himself in that position to get landed on, were was Nesmith supposed to go?

Instead of blaming the refs, maybe don't turn it over twice in the last 35 seconds or so.

[Wizop]

The Pacers should never put 5 bench players on the court at the same time again in the playoffs though. As good as the Pacers bench is, you've gotta have some starters in at all times.

Closing the 3rd Q with all bench players allowed the starters to play heavy minutes in the 4th Q.

[Wizop]

Those saying Haliburton is selfish for letting Nembhard initiate the offense when teams press him are overlooking that the game plan is created by the coaches. We've been playing this way all year and still Haliburton commonly gets 20 and 10. The Cavs did a good job last night keeping Haliburton's scoring down and Nembard's turnovers up, but they ran out of gas - and having 3 players out was a major cause of that.

[Pacers_Freak]

So now we call fouls like last one against Hali in playoffs or in general?

It was a disgusting foul to call. Indiana has gotten so many breaks in this series, they didn’t need that from the officials.

It was a bad call. Thought there were some on both sides. Officiating wasn't great, but neither team could/should have used that as an excuse in a loss. The Pacers were playing a team without 3 of their best players and didn't take care of business at the beginning of the game. The Cavs had a substantial lead inside of a minute. You can talk about the call if you want, but block out/rebound and take care of the basketball and the call is irrelevant.

[DowJones]

So now we call fouls like last one against Hali in playoffs or in general?

It was a disgusting foul to call. Indiana has gotten so many breaks in this series, they didn’t need that from the officials.

The elbow from Mitchell? I think that gets called 99% of the time.

The officials have been letting the 2 teams play physical all series, but with 10 seconds left they give the Pacers a ghost foul. That is what I am referring to. It was an awful call that goes against the established pattern throughout the series.

[Wizop]

So now we call fouls like last one against Hali in playoffs or in general?

It was a disgusting foul to call. Indiana has gotten so many breaks in this series, they didn’t need that from the officials.

It was a bad call. Thought there were some on both sides. Officiating wasn't great, but neither team could/should have used that as an excuse in a loss. The Pacers were playing a team without 3 of their best players and didn't take care of business at the beginning of the game. The Cavs had a substantial lead inside of a minute. You can talk about the call if you want, but block out/rebound and take care of the basketball and the call is irrelevant.

Atkinson working the officials post game is understandable but I'm with the podcaster who said he's complaining about the Pacers playing physical late in the game when that's exactly how the Cavs played early in the game.

[cgf]

I'm a longtime Pacers fan and I really want to see Hali and the team succeed. While I don't fully agree with all of your points, I do recognize some of your observations about Hali. In fact, those same things—like his passiveness, being overly unselfish, and not asserting himself enough—have frustrated me at times too.

Sports fans and teams and coaches and etc need to stop calling unassertive, passive, wallflower players unselfish.

No, they are selfish.

Haliburton is a selfish player, it's just that nobody will call it that because they like to project themselves as star player's teammates and admire the "pass-first" type of star player as someone they wanna play with because they make the game fun.

Haliburton gladly hands his team grenades by not taking over possessions.

Watching Nembhard get 8 turnovers is selfish. Haliburton only wanting to do the easy stuff like go ahead passes and cute pick and roll plays, and transition threes instead of the gritty dirty work of getting iso-buckets to temper the momentum of an advancing team is selfish.

Haliburton's playstyle and attitude is the equivalent of not taking players not taking heaves because they don't want to mess up their shooting stats.

Haliburton will sit out entire possessions and quarters because he don't want to mess up his stats. Then he'll "take over" for the last 3 minutes because by then it doesn't really matter, he's 5-9 with 10 assists, if he wins, he looks good, if he loses it isn't his fault.

Haliburton is a selfish player that plays basketball with a ledger, keeping account of everything that he's done to "win" the game.

It's the opposite of someone like Curry, who is competitive and want to win the game and get with over. The Pacers are the 9th best offense in the league, they shouldn't have struggled to score and lose the TO battle without Evan Mobley playing lol.

I actually think there's something to there being such a thing as a player being unselfish to the point of hurting his team...Quentin Grimes had that problem after the OG trade, when he failed to recognize that when he was out there with the second unit a just-good look for him was the best look we'd get on a possession.

And I do think Hali needs to learn to take over more when they need someone to hit a "bad shot", but I think you're going to far in this critique. Indy has so many weapons, and Nembhardt typically is clutch for them as that second ball-handler, that they don't often need someone to hit a "bad shot". Plus it's not like Hali shied away from making the risky play in the big moments the other night.

So I don't think this critique has cost them yet, though it is the thing that most keeps me from putting them in that top tier and have them as one of the top darkhorses, right there with my Knicks & the Wolves.

[DowJones]

So now we call fouls like last one against Hali in playoffs or in general?

It was a disgusting foul to call. Indiana has gotten so many breaks in this series, they didn’t need that from the officials.

It was a bad call. Thought there were some on both sides. Officiating wasn't great, but neither team could/should have used that as an excuse in a loss. The Pacers were playing a team without 3 of their best players and didn't take care of business at the beginning of the game. The Cavs had a substantial lead inside of a minute. You can talk about the call if you want, but block out/rebound and take care of the basketball and the call is irrelevant.

That final call was just as important as a missed box out. Cleveland played great defense on the closing seconds, but they were punished by a phantom foul. It isn’t the lone reason the Cavs lost, but it was just as big as the made 3, the turnovers, etc.

[Wizop]

Haliburton is a selfish player, it's just that nobody will call it that because they like to project themselves as star player's teammates and admire the "pass-first" type of star player as someone they wanna play with because they make the game fun.

Pacers play team ball. It's what an old line Indianapolis reporter called the "country game" as opposed to the one-on-one isolation play of the "city game."

Note what happened last night in the final seconds

Siakam made a layup
Nesmith dunked a missed free throw
Nemhard stole a pass
Turner tipped the rebound of a missed free throw to Haliburton
Haliburton made a three.

Each starter made a key play. Take away any one of these 5 plays and the Cavs win the game.

[boomershadow]

Those saying Haliburton is selfish for letting Nembhard initiate the offense when teams press him are overlooking that the game plan is created by the coaches. We've been playing this way all year and still Haliburton commonly gets 20 and 10. The Cavs did a good job last night keeping Haliburton's scoring down and Nembard's turnovers up, but they ran out of gas - and having 3 players out was a major cause of that.

It is selfish to pass now?

[Pacers_Freak]

It was a disgusting foul to call. Indiana has gotten so many breaks in this series, they didn’t need that from the officials.

It was a bad call. Thought there were some on both sides. Officiating wasn't great, but neither team could/should have used that as an excuse in a loss. The Pacers were playing a team without 3 of their best players and didn't take care of business at the beginning of the game. The Cavs had a substantial lead inside of a minute. You can talk about the call if you want, but block out/rebound and take care of the basketball and the call is irrelevant.

That final call was just as important as a missed box out. Cleveland played great defense on the closing seconds, but they were punished by a phantom foul. It isn’t the lone reason the Cavs lost, but it was just as big as the made 3, the turnovers, etc.

Correct. Control what you can control was my point. Pacers didn't control the game early against an injured team. Cavs didn't control what they could have late. Either side blaming it on one singular call is a cop out. Control what you can control is my point.

[Pacers_Freak]

I’ve said it during the regular season but i’ll reiterate it now, the Cavs are the biggest 60+ win frauds in history. Lucky break for Indy to the ECF 2 years in a row. WP.

I'm not sure that is fair. They haven't been healthy. Unless you are saying they are frauds of having the ability to stay healthy. You can't judge a team on a 2 game sample size where they haven't had their core.

[cgf]

Haliburton is a selfish player, it's just that nobody will call it that because they like to project themselves as star player's teammates and admire the "pass-first" type of star player as someone they wanna play with because they make the game fun.

Pacers play team ball. It's what an old line Indianapolis reporter called the "country game" as opposed to the one-on-one isolation play of the "city game."

Note what happened last night in the final seconds

Siakam made a layup
Nesmith dunked a missed free throw
Nemhard stole a pass
Turner tipped the rebound of a missed free throw to Haliburton
Haliburton made a three.

Each starter made a key play. Take away any one of these 5 plays and the Cavs win the game.

I get it, and it makes you a lot of fun to watch, like the warriors used to be. But at some point you run into a team that's neutralizing your team ball too well to get anyone a "good look". At which point someone has to hit a "bad shot", which can also be done by committee, but the best players in this league typically deliver more reliably in those circumstances than does the "by committee" approach.

Not signing on to that poster's "Hali is selfish for not forcing things more" point, just saying that Hali learning to take over when your team approach isn't getting you great looks, is the thing that I think separates you from being title favorites rather than one of the more dangerous darkhorses / 2nd tier contenders.

[whatisacenter]

man, there are a lot of weird takes and crying in this thread.

[DowJones]

It was a bad call. Thought there were some on both sides. Officiating wasn't great, but neither team could/should have used that as an excuse in a loss. The Pacers were playing a team without 3 of their best players and didn't take care of business at the beginning of the game. The Cavs had a substantial lead inside of a minute. You can talk about the call if you want, but block out/rebound and take care of the basketball and the call is irrelevant.

That final call was just as important as a missed box out. Cleveland played great defense on the closing seconds, but they were punished by a phantom foul. It isn’t the lone reason the Cavs lost, but it was just as big as the made 3, the turnovers, etc.

Correct. Control what you can control was my point. Pacers didn't control the game early against an injured team. Cavs didn't control what they could have late. Either side blaming it on one singular call is a cop out. Control what you can control is my point.

I don’t play for the team. I am doing what you are doing—-commenting on the game. A big part of that game was the blown call at the end, which Indiana benefited from. That is why I commented on it. I also commented on how poorly the Cavs played earlier in this thread, so it’s not like my commentary is isolated to the phantom foul with 10 seconds left.

[Drakeem]

Pacers play team ball so Tyrese doesn’t have the luxury of being selfish.

Every fan of the "true PG" likes to tell themselves this when in reality, their "true PG" doesn't have the bag to get a shot whenever they want.

If Hali could drop 25 on 60 TS a game, he would but he can't. It's been 3 years.

He doesn't draw free throws, he doesn't have simple ways to generate offense, he isn't that crafty of a guy.

He's a bread and butter pick and roll PG that shoots 3s and makes the right pass.

Why are you saying this like it is a bad thing? Being elite in the pick and roll, hitting teammates with good passes and being a competent 3 point shooter leading to a high quality offense is literally the idea "true PG". Teams don't need to be constructed around outdated isolation players like it is the late 90s. Your takes reek of someone who lives for instagram reels.

Tbh, against elite teams there will be times where the plan to play the "right way" just won't be available. Unfortunately this Cavs team got decimated with injuries again this year, but at some point you're going to need your guy to be able to take those oppertunities and turn them into a made shot when nothing is working.

Hali is a great player, but I do always wonder that against the Bostons/OKCs/etc if he can be the one to have a 3-5 minute period where he kinda wills the team past a shooting slump until they find their footing again. Every team is going to run into stretches where they can't get a good look, but generally the top tier players can turn that bad shot into a shot that has a reasonable percentage of going in.

We'll see in the next round I guess, barring Boston and NYC losing key players on their side too. I like this Indiana team, but I want them to be tested against the juggernauts before I can call them a true contender.