MVP Rankings 1.0

[YLSKillaCam]

So what if the only difference in those "experts" predictions is that Boston will get the best record in the league, the Lakers get the first seed in the West and the Cavs have about 3 wins less than the Lakers? All that while LeBron maintaining his clear statistic advantage. Who is the MVP then?

If the Cavs finish 3 games back of the Lakers and LeBron still has the clear advantage in stats, then it goes to LeBron. (Barring any major Laker injuries)

But if the Cavs win 58-59 games and are the 3rd seed, while the Lakers win 65-66 and are the 1st seed, it should go to Kobe.

My position is this. If Kobe continues to play outstanding defense, which he has all season (even Cavs fans grudgingly admit this) and continues to play as a top 2 level individual and they are the first seed then Kobe gets MVP regardless of what Lebron does.

Now if Kobe leads the Lakers to #1 in the West and the Cavs are #2 in the East, it would come down to alot of variables.

I'd like to see more than averages. You know, the East is pretty pathetic this year so you know as you're balancing out how Lebron would do with Kobe's teammates you have to figure how many more wins the Lakers would have if they played in the East. Things like that come into play. It would be closer.

I'd edge towards Kobe because #2 is still better than #3, he is older and he won the championship last year. Other voters might lean towards Lebron for his statistical prowess.

This is all assuming that #2 in the East is #3 overall. If Lebron falls farther than #3 overall, he has no shot and neither does Kobe.

[YLSKillaCam]

I never said anything about who would win the championship, the moves we made were clearly made to give us a better chance to win the championship (which I fully expect Cleveland to win). The fact is we have quite a few changes to integrate plus the unexpected issues with delonte (the forecast you posted was before any of the delonte issues happened). I specifically said pre-season power rankings, which took into account that we may start out a bit slow.

So you're a championship team, but not playing like Champions in the regular season but your boy is putting up INSANE numbers?

Ok, cool argument. The Cavs might win the championship...but Lebron might want to go ask his teammate about that strategy.

Shaquille put up monster numbers on championship teams that didn't do so well during the regular season. He was awarded MVP when he got the first seed. It was what was expected. When that didn't happen, he lost. Most dominant ever, not MVP.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Both ESPN and NBA.com have Kobe as the MVP so far.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/1 ... index.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/awards

Kobe fans getting too excited about these rankings should keep in mind CLE is barely behind LA in the standings. Off the top of my head, LA has already had two lucky buzzer beater wins against MIA (prayer shot, Kobe admitted it) and MIL (questionable reffing, several LAL posters admitted it)

Those two games don't go in LA's favor you're talking about comparing records of 19-7 and 18-6 with LA having FAR better talent/coaching and a home heavy schedule. Both teams have had players out of the lineup so that is a non-factor.

So I'd say if Kobe has a lead at the moment it's razor thin.

CLE losing 2 games early gave people this perception the team is horribly under-achieving but that's not really the case.

[JimMurray]

what kind of spin is that - Artest is a former DPOY who was 2nd team all defense last year. He's quite clearly an upgrade over ariza. The lakers must think so, they could have kept ariza, who wanted to stay, but quickly went after Artest instead. Cleveland was after him too, and he would have been a much better addition than Parker/Moon.

So effin what? Shaq is a former MVP and three time Finals MVP....added to a team that won 66 games! This argument is going to go nowhere.

Who expected the lakers to struggle? Preseason power rankings univerally had them #1 and the cavs in the 4-5 range, and right now the lakers are in a 2 way tie for first while the cavs are in a 5 way tie for 3rd with all of a 2 game gap between those 7 teams.

Nobody. And a two game gap projects out to an 8 game gap...which is why it's big deal right now.

The cavs added shaq, moved Z to the bench, moved parker to teh starting lineup, don't know what they'll get from Delonte from day to day, added Moon to the rotation, moved Andy to the bench, moved a 2nd year player who missed part of his rookie season into the starting lineup. That's a lot of change compared to plugging artest in for ariza and leaving the rest in tact.

You're right....the CAVS are TERRIBLE...without Lebron they'd be 0-25! GTFO....the Cavs have an adequate supporting cast to contend for the best record in the league. If they finish 3rd or 4th in the East...Lebron can't be MVP.

[CzBoobie]

Both ESPN and NBA.com have Kobe as the MVP so far.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/1 ... index.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/awards

Kobe fans getting too excited about these rankings should keep in mind CLE is barely behind LA in the standings. Off the top of my head, LA has already had two lucky buzzer beater wins against MIA (prayer shot, Kobe admitted it) and MIL (questionable reffing, several LAL posters admitted it)

Those two games don't go in LA's favor you're talking about comparing records of 19-7 and 18-6 with LA having FAR better talent/coaching and a home heavy schedule. Both teams have had players out of the lineup so that is a non-factor.

So I'd say if Kobe has a lead at the moment it's razor thin.

Well, to be fair, Kobe got those wins...lucky or not.

[JimMurray]

(Artest won DPOY almost 6 years ago, and you really think that switching from Ariza to Artest is a bigger upgrade then getting Shaq/Moon/Parker for nothing?)

Yep.

[YLSKillaCam]

Both ESPN and NBA.com have Kobe as the MVP so far.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/1 ... index.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/awards

Kobe fans getting too excited about these rankings should keep in mind CLE is barely behind LA in the standings. Off the top of my head, LA has already had two lucky buzzer beater wins against MIA (prayer shot, Kobe admitted it) and MIL (questionable reffing, several LAL posters admitted it)

Those two games don't go in LA's favor you're talking about comparing records of 19-7 and 18-6 with LA having FAR better talent/coaching and a home heavy schedule. Both teams have had players out of the lineup so that is a non-factor.

So I'd say if Kobe has a lead at the moment it's razor thin.

Not when you factor in the REASON they are 20-4 is BECAUSE kobe hit two buzzer beaters.

Isn't that the very definition of MVP?????


When one guy is the difference between you being 18-6 and 20-4 over the course of an entire season, you hand that guy the MVP 100/100.

I don't see how anyone can disagree.

[JimMurray]

So what if the only difference in those "experts" predictions is that Boston will get the best record in the league, the Lakers get the first seed in the West and the Cavs have about 3 wins less than the Lakers? All that while LeBron maintaining his clear statistic advantage. Who is the MVP then?

Kobe.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Not when you factor in the REASON they are 20-4 is BECAUSE kobe hit two buzzer beaters.

Isn't that the very definition of MVP?????


When one guy is the difference between you being 18-6 and 20-4 over the course of an entire season, you hand that guy the MVP 100/100.

I don't see how anyone can disagree.

Right. The point was that the gap is extremely small between CLE and LAL records. The season is barely what 25% complete? Lots of time left and those type of circumstances tend to wash out over a larger sample size (82 games)

I would agree that for the moment, it puts Kobe in the lead. But not by much.

[CzBoobie]

The cavs added shaq, moved Z to the bench, moved parker to teh starting lineup, don't know what they'll get from Delonte from day to day, added Moon to the rotation, moved Andy to the bench, moved a 2nd year player who missed part of his rookie season into the starting lineup. That's a lot of change compared to plugging artest in for ariza and leaving the rest in tact.

You're right....the CAVS are TERRIBLE...without Lebron they'd be 0-25! GTFO....the Cavs have an adequate supporting cast to contend for the best record in the league. If they finish 3rd or 4th in the East...Lebron can't be MVP.

He is not saying it at all. These are just quite rational reasons why the Cavs started little bit slower.

[JimMurray]

Kobe fans getting too excited about these rankings should keep in mind CLE is barely behind LA in the standings. Off the top of my head, LA has already had two lucky buzzer beater wins against MIA (prayer shot, Kobe admitted it) and MIL (questionable reffing, several LAL posters admitted it)

Truth.

Those two games don't go in LA's favor you're talking about comparing records of 19-7 and 18-6 with LA having FAR better talent/coaching and a home heavy schedule. Both teams have had players out of the lineup so that is a non-factor.

Truth.

So I'd say if Kobe has a lead at the moment it's razor thin.

Truth.

CLE losing 2 games early gave people this perception the team is horribly under-achieving but that's not really the case.

WTF? That was a really good post! I don't disagree with anything...and it came from someone from Cleveland?! I knew it was possible.

[JimMurray]

Well, to be fair, Kobe got those wins...lucky or not.

That's the other side of the double edged sword. If Lebron fans want to bring up two lucky shots, Kobe fans will being up exactly who it was that got those two lucky shots. Also, stuff like that tends to linger in the heads of the media come MVP voting time.

[JimMurray]

He is not saying it at all. These are just quite rational reasons why the Cavs started little bit slower.

Truth...I think I pointed that out at the time back when the Cavs were 3-3 that it was nothing to get excited about considering the circumstances surrounding those losses. Which is why I put less stock in the records at this point of the season. We'll see where they are after January.

[CzBoobie]

So what if the only difference in those "experts" predictions is that Boston will get the best record in the league, the Lakers get the first seed in the West and the Cavs have about 3 wins less than the Lakers? All that while LeBron maintaining his clear statistic advantage. Who is the MVP then?

Kobe.

So LeBron won last year in completely dominant fashion while winning only one more game than the Lakers without Bynum and 4 games swing for clearly more talented Lakers still unable to get the best record in the league suddenly makes Kobe the MVP ?

[JimMurray]

So what if the only difference in those "experts" predictions is that Boston will get the best record in the league, the Lakers get the first seed in the West and the Cavs have about 3 wins less than the Lakers? All that while LeBron maintaining his clear statistic advantage. Who is the MVP then?

Kobe.

So LeBron won last year in completely dominant fashion while winning only one more game than the Lakers without Bynum and 4 games swing for clearly more talented Lakers even unable to get the best record in league suddenly makes Kobe the MVP ?

You know, it wasn't exactly the landslide that everyone is saying it was, especially seeing as how Kobe finished only 1 game behind Lebron, even after losing Bynum for 3/5 of the season. It was a situation where the Cavs improved themselves by a significant margin over the course of the year, and that trumped anything Kobe did leading the Lakers through the Bynum injury. Fast forward to this year and you have a situation where everyone knows what the Cavs are capable of.

The surprise factor has worn off and Lebron has had some big fails PR wise with the media. He's no longer unscathed and protected the way he was in the past. If the Cavs finish behind the Laker considering how horrible the Eastern Conference is, and considering the fact that the Cavs added Shaq and three solid players in the off-season while losing nothing....Lebron has to be penalized for that.

[INKtastic]

he said basically the same thing I've been saying except I don't give kobe a razor thin edge.

And why do people keep talking about Cleveland finishing 3rd or 4th in the east. We're just 2 games back from the best record in the league a year after having the best record in the league. you don't project that out to an 8 game gap, you project that into a dog fight.

And shaq wasn't called a top aquisition because he was expected to improve our record, he was called that because he was expected to help us compete better with Orlando and LA. So far we're 1-0 in those games. We'll see how things go next week in the second test.

[JimMurray]

he said basically the same thing I've been saying except I don't give kobe a razor thin edge.

And why do people keep talking about Cleveland finishing 3rd or 4th in the east. We're just 2 games back from the best record in the league a year after having the best record in the league. you don't project that out to an 8 game gap, you project that into a dog fight.

It really doesn't matter how I project it does it? They have to play the games, and when they do, no speculation will be necessary.

[CzBoobie]

You know, it wasn't exactly the landslide that everyone is saying it was, especially seeing as how Kobe finished only 1 game behind Lebron, even after losing Bynum for 3/5 of the season. It was a situation where the Cavs improved themselves by a significant margin over the course of the year, and that trumped anything Kobe did leading the Lakers through the Bynum injury. Fast forward to this year and you have a situation where everyone knows what the Cavs are capable of. .

How was it not the landslide? 109 - 2 in first place votes. Kobe almost didn't even finish 2nd, he was only 18 total votes ahead of Wade who had 5 more first place votes.

[JimMurray]

You know, it wasn't exactly the landslide that everyone is saying it was, especially seeing as how Kobe finished only 1 game behind Lebron, even after losing Bynum for 3/5 of the season. It was a situation where the Cavs improved themselves by a significant margin over the course of the year, and that trumped anything Kobe did leading the Lakers through the Bynum injury. Fast forward to this year and you have a situation where everyone knows what the Cavs are capable of. .

How was it not the landslide? 109 - 2 in first place votes. Kobe almost didn't even finish 2nd, he was only 18 total votes ahead of Wade.

I understand the votes were a landslide...I simply underscored the main reasons for the landslide. Cleveland's improvement could not be ignored. Lebron won't have that benefit this time around.

[semi-sentient]

Oh and just for the record,

people thought that Artest was both a "best and worst" newcomer, while Shaq was considered only for "best newcomer" and received more votes in that category than Artest.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... stNewcomer

Ouch. That's damning for the whole "Kobe has the former DPOY, blah, blah, blah argument" ... haha. Seriously, I can't believe people would even bring that up. All we heard in the offseason was how Artest was a washed up defender that would cause chemistry problems for the Lakers because he wouldn't accept his role, whereas Ariza was the perfect role player. Talk about some spin.