2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt III

WhatsMyName · Post #821 » by **WhatsMyName** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 10:33 am

Colbinii wrote:
QPR wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
The case can be made.

I think if you disregard team record, conference strength, injuries to team mates, raw stats, PER rating, offensive win shares, defensive win shares and strength of schedule, then you can absolutely make a case for LeBron.

(In all seriousness though, the fact that LeBron can log a PER of 29.1, TS% of .649, shoot 57% from the floor and still be quite comfortably beaten to MVP just tells you how dominant KD has been this year.)

If someone thinks the best player on the planet deserves MVP, LeBron would be MVP. Thankfully, that isn't what I or most voters use for the criteria.

That's the interesting thing about this season, a lot of people that say Durant is MVP (and he his MVP no question) are still saying Lebron is the best player in the game.

They probably think Lebron (and the Heat) are coasting through the regular season and to a certain degree that's true, but if Lebron can rise to that 2012 playoff level is still open, I am not really sure to be honest.

deneem4 · Post #822 » by **deneem4** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 11:07 am

"Based on play this season" would you rather have lebron or durant on your team....This should answer all mvp questions

bbms · Post #823 » by **bbms** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 2:20 pm

deneem4 wrote:"Based on play this season" would you rather have lebron or durant on your team....This should answer all mvp questions

If you have a ball dominant star, Durant. If you have a non-ball dominant star, LeBron. If you got nothing but a defense, you can go either way and the outcome will be the same (maybe even Durant, he's really playing better basketball than LeBron this season). If you got nothing at all, LeBron (because of better defense) + Free Agency is better. If you got nothing at all and isn't a big market to attract FAs, you probably wouldn't want any business with them, just tank for years and acquire a solid core.

JVL · Post #824 » by **JVL** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 4:55 pm

deneem4 wrote:"Based on play this season" would you rather have lebron or durant on your team....This should answer all mvp questions

I'd still pick Lebron. I believe he impacts the game in more ways than KD, who is obviously a phenomenal player.

Hero · Post #825 » by **Hero** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 5:22 pm

JVL wrote:
deneem4 wrote:"Based on play this season" would you rather have lebron or durant on your team....This should answer all mvp questions

I'd still pick Lebron. I believe he impacts the game in more ways than KD, who is obviously a phenomenal player.

Oh yep. Obviously you go LeBron at this point but for this season's MVP you gotta go KD. While KD has been more consistent , when LeBron turns it on and gives it his all, he's clearly the best.

deneem4 · Post #826 » by **deneem4** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 6:25 pm

I think ball dominant durant is more effective than lebron and non ball dominant durant...well stats show he is...

Durant impact on offense is greater than any impact lebron gives...when Lebron's turns it on and gives it his best means what??? I'm sorry but that's jus an excuse as to his mediocre play compared to durant...

Remember the 61 point streak game and the nxt couple games after...If that's the result of lebron at his best than il take kd 57 every time...
Lebron honestly realize he can't compete consistently with kd level of play every game...that's why he has his stats comin yo his phone every night...He's generally amazed like the rest of us..
The thing is lebron not having a bad season this is his usual numbers, kd jus blows him out the water right now so it seems if lebron is jus coasting...
The heat was unstoppable last season but that was unusual record based on the big 3 season records...This year is more what they average as far as wins and losses...

rcontador · Post #827 » by **rcontador** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 8:07 pm

Hero wrote:
JVL wrote:
deneem4 wrote:"Based on play this season" would you rather have lebron or durant on your team....This should answer all mvp questions

I'd still pick Lebron. I believe he impacts the game in more ways than KD, who is obviously a phenomenal player.

Oh yep. Obviously you go LeBron at this point but for this season's MVP you gotta go KD. While KD has been more consistent , when LeBron turns it on and gives it his all, he's clearly the best.

Certainly not. KD's hot streaks have been just as impressive as Lebron's hot streaks, this season.

Greatness · Post #828 » by **Greatness** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 8:22 pm

deneem4 wrote:I think ball dominant durant is more effective than lebron and non ball dominant durant...well stats show he is...

Durant impact on offense is greater than any impact lebron gives...when Lebron's turns it on and gives it his best means what??? I'm sorry but that's jus an excuse as to his mediocre play compared to durant...

Remember the 61 point streak game and the nxt couple games after...If that's the result of lebron at his best than il take kd 57 every time...
Lebron honestly realize he can't compete consistently with kd level of play every game...that's why he has his stats comin yo his phone every night...He's generally amazed like the rest of us..
The thing is lebron not having a bad season this is his usual numbers, kd jus blows him out the water right now so it seems if lebron is jus coasting...
The heat was unstoppable last season but that was unusual record based on the big 3 season records...This year is more what they average as far as wins and losses...

No, LeBron is having a bit of a down year compared to his usual standards. Which is expected coming off of 3 straight finals appearances. LeBron's 2013 season is better than Durant this season and every measure backs that up.

deneem4 · Post #829 » by **deneem4** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 9:59 pm

Greatness wrote:
deneem4 wrote:I think ball dominant durant is more effective than lebron and non ball dominant durant...well stats show he is...

Durant impact on offense is greater than any impact lebron gives...when Lebron's turns it on and gives it his best means what??? I'm sorry but that's jus an excuse as to his mediocre play compared to durant...

Remember the 61 point streak game and the nxt couple games after...If that's the result of lebron at his best than il take kd 57 every time...
Lebron honestly realize he can't compete consistently with kd level of play every game...that's why he has his stats comin yo his phone every night...He's generally amazed like the rest of us..
The thing is lebron not having a bad season this is his usual numbers, kd jus blows him out the water right now so it seems if lebron is jus coasting...
The heat was unstoppable last season but that was unusual record based on the big 3 season records...This year is more what they average as far as wins and losses...

No, LeBron is having a bit of a down year compared to his usual standards. Which is expected coming off of 3 straight finals appearances. LeBron's 2013 season is better than Durant this season and every measure backs that up.

Can you post stats to backup your post?

Greatness · Post #830 » by **Greatness** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 11:37 pm

deneem4 wrote:
Greatness wrote:
deneem4 wrote:I think ball dominant durant is more effective than lebron and non ball dominant durant...well stats show he is...

Durant impact on offense is greater than any impact lebron gives...when Lebron's turns it on and gives it his best means what??? I'm sorry but that's jus an excuse as to his mediocre play compared to durant...

Remember the 61 point streak game and the nxt couple games after...If that's the result of lebron at his best than il take kd 57 every time...
Lebron honestly realize he can't compete consistently with kd level of play every game...that's why he has his stats comin yo his phone every night...He's generally amazed like the rest of us..
The thing is lebron not having a bad season this is his usual numbers, kd jus blows him out the water right now so it seems if lebron is jus coasting...
The heat was unstoppable last season but that was unusual record based on the big 3 season records...This year is more what they average as far as wins and losses...

No, LeBron is having a bit of a down year compared to his usual standards. Which is expected coming off of 3 straight finals appearances. LeBron's 2013 season is better than Durant this season and every measure backs that up.

Can you post stats to backup your post?

LeBron 31.6 PER
Durant 30.8 PER

LeBron 64% TS
Durant 64.5% TS

LeBron 60.3 eFG%
Durant 57.1 eFG%

LeBron 13.1 TRB%
Durant 11.0 TRB%

LeBron 36.4 AST%
Durant 27.6 AST%

LeBron 125 ORTg, 101 DRTg
Durant 124 ORTg, 102 DRTg

LeBron .322 WS/48
Durant .316 WS/48

QPR · Post #831 » by **QPR** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 11:48 pm

I think when you consider Durant is averaging 5ppg more than LeBron last year, hits more threes and is a much better foul shooter, you could make an argument that his 13/14 season is comparable to LeBron's 12/13.

Advanced stats aren't the be all and end all. In reality any PER over 30 is probably going to be considered historically good or close to it.

Greatness · Post #832 » by **Greatness** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 12:12 am

QPR wrote:I think when you consider Durant is averaging 5ppg more than LeBron last year, hits more threes and is a much better foul shooter, you could make an argument that his 13/14 season is comparable to LeBron's 12/13.

Advanced stats aren't the be all and end all. In reality any PER over 30 is probably going to be considered historically good or close to it.

When you factor in the 27 game win streak, I really don't think it's all that close.

MisterHibachi · Post #833 » by **MisterHibachi** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 12:14 am

Greatness wrote:
QPR wrote:I think when you consider Durant is averaging 5ppg more than LeBron last year, hits more threes and is a much better foul shooter, you could make an argument that his 13/14 season is comparable to LeBron's 12/13.

Advanced stats aren't the be all and end all. In reality any PER over 30 is probably going to be considered historically good or close to it.

When you factor in the 27 game win streak, I really don't think it's all that close.

Defense too. PER doesn't take defense into account.

QPR · Post #834 » by **QPR** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 2:02 am

Durant's defensive win shares were higher than LeBron in 2012/13 (5.3 to 4.7).

I don't think you could say he was a better defensive player though - are there any other measures?

MisterHibachi · Post #835 » by **MisterHibachi** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 3:22 am

Imo, defense is still best measured by the eye test. Too many team factors go into defensive numbers to make them good indicators of individual defense. Also, defense is more about the process than the result so impact measures are kinda faulty imo. You can do everything right and the guy still make the shot, it doesn't mean you were a bad defender on that play.

deneem4 · Post #836 » by **deneem4** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 4:13 am

Greatness wrote:
deneem4 wrote:
Greatness wrote:No, LeBron is having a bit of a down year compared to his usual standards. Which is expected coming off of 3 straight finals appearances. LeBron's 2013 season is better than Durant this season and every measure backs that up.

Can you post stats to backup your post?

LeBron 31.6 PER
Durant 30.8 PER

LeBron 64% TS
Durant 64.5% TS

LeBron 60.3 eFG%
Durant 57.1 eFG%

LeBron 13.1 TRB%
Durant 11.0 TRB%

LeBron 36.4 AST%
Durant 27.6 AST%

LeBron 125 ORTg, 101 DRTg
Durant 124 ORTg, 102 DRTg

LeBron .322 WS/48
Durant .316 WS/48

32.2
26.8
That's a 5 point swing...A FIVE POINT DIFFERENCE...
While missing 3 of his normal 5 starters for half of the season...you can't be serious

Greatness · Post #837 » by **Greatness** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 5:14 am

deneem4 wrote:
Greatness wrote:
deneem4 wrote:
Can you post stats to backup your post?

LeBron 31.6 PER
Durant 30.8 PER

LeBron 64% TS
Durant 64.5% TS

LeBron 60.3 eFG%
Durant 57.1 eFG%

LeBron 13.1 TRB%
Durant 11.0 TRB%

LeBron 36.4 AST%
Durant 27.6 AST%

LeBron 125 ORTg, 101 DRTg
Durant 124 ORTg, 102 DRTg

LeBron .322 WS/48
Durant .316 WS/48

32.2
26.8
That's a 5 point swing...A FIVE POINT DIFFERENCE...
While missing 3 of his normal 5 starters for half of the season...you can't be serious

I'm afraid I am serious. If after asking me to provide some stats, you simply ignore all of them and use points per game as your main arguement, there is no point in me engaging in this discussion.

RSCD3_ · Post #838 » by **RSCD3_** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 5:18 am

I think people are subconsiously degrading his 2013 season because his 13 playoff run it wasnt as good as his 2012 playoff run.

Also i'm sure if you gave lebron an ibaka who gives durant the luxury of an interior shot eraser and the ability to take more risks on defense

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HotRocks34 · Post #839 » by **HotRocks34** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 5:59 am

This is for the people giving me a hard time the other night regarding the importance of winning a conference as regards MVP voting.

Michael Wallace, ESPN writer.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/ ... el-wallace

I've got Durant as the MVP. He's done enough to deserve it. But I also think it will be a very, very close vote at the end of the day. Especially if LeBron keeps Miami atop the East, with Wade missing in the neighborhood of 25 games this season

Everything matters. Particularly when an award is a subjective one.

Atmanne · Post #840 » by **Atmanne** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 6:11 am

Quoting a Heat beat writer doesn't exactly solidify your stance. I don't doubt that the biggest Lebron fan at ESPN thinks it's "very, very close".

Who will be the 2013-14 MVP?