Nikola Jokic wins MVP(again)

[Cubbies2120]

The MVP has never been a “best stat” award or else Kobe should’ve won it over Nash in 06. Stat is the only argument Jokic has and this essentially sets a precedent and I hope the same energy is kept going forward….

Stat is the only argument he has?

Jokic played in more wins than Embiid or Giannis lol.

"The only argument Jokic has is he rates better in objective measures of performance that nobody minded until Jokic exploded them".

[NetsJets]

The MVP has never been a “best stat” award or else Kobe should’ve won it over Nash in 06. Stat is the only argument Jokic has and this essentially sets a precedent and I hope the same energy is kept going forward….

Stat is the only argument he has?

Jokic played in more wins than Embiid or Giannis lol.

"The only argument Jokic has is he rates better in objective measures of performance that nobody minded until Jokic exploded them".

All I’ve heard was that he had the best RAPTOR and PER etc. Therefore he should be the MVP, the argument for Jokic is solely based on stats.

Jokic played in more wins basically means he played more games than Embiid and Giannis? How does that make him more worthy?

[azcatz11]

Zach Lowe is a relative nobody. Does he seriously have that much influence?

Yes - he has a ton of influence. He influences people like Bill Simmons, etc. He's been pushing the Jokic train for a year now and I'm not saying that's wrong but he has

What evidence do you have of this besides "Trust me, bro"?

I can say Broussard, SAS, etc. have influence, because, trust me bro.

How do you expect me to quantify that? He has the most influential podcast on the NBA and has several voting members on regularly.

Do you believe Larry King didn't influence guests during his show back in the day? Do you believe Oprah didn't either?

[NZB2323]

Congrats to Joker but everyone deserves to have an opinion. I honestly don’t understand the hostility the pro Embiid fans are experiencing but I guess people like teaming up on the under dog

You don’t understand the “hostility” people who are coming into a Jokic celebration thread putting down the repeat MVP are facing? You can’t think of why that could be?

What about the pro-Jokic fans in here celebrating his MVP and getting quoted by salty fans of other players, that’s not hostility right?

I believe the MVP thread should be open to criticism and if everyone just said “congrats Jokic” that would be a boring thread. It seems to me like people are piling on the Pro-Embiid crowd as a form of a witch hunt

So the MVP thread should be open to criticism but we can’t critique the critics?

Are we just supposed to say, “That’s like, your opinion man,” to people with the pro Embiid takes?

That would be boring if that’s all we’re allowed to respond with.

[eyeatoma]

If refuting false statements with objective statistics is a witch hunt, then hand me a pitchfork!

I’ve seen compelling evidence to the contrary including people who have no idea what raptor or Jurassic park or whatever the popular advanced stat is of the month. Zach Lowe has been propping him up for months which is probably why he won

Zach Lowe is a relative nobody. Does he seriously have that much influence?

Zach Lowe is a god amongst NBA media, and podcasters. There is a tweet from a media member stating that many members who did have votes just used Zach Lowe's ballots for their own votes.

This is exactly why media should not be able to vote on this. Too many people have a vote and they have no clue about what they're talking about.

[RRFB]

The MVP has never been a “best stat” award or else Kobe should’ve won it over Nash in 06. Stat is the only argument Jokic has and this essentially sets a precedent and I hope the same energy is kept going forward….

Stat is the only argument he has?

Jokic played in more wins than Embiid or Giannis lol.

"The only argument Jokic has is he rates better in objective measures of performance that nobody minded until Jokic exploded them".

All I’ve heard was that he had the best RAPTOR and PER etc. Therefore he should be the MVP, the argument for Jokic is solely based on stats.

Jokic played in more wins basically means he played more games than Embiid and Giannis? How does that make him more worthy?

I don’t know where you, Nick Wright, and all the other Embiid stans who keep saying this are getting it from. This narrative that a bunch of votes went to Jokic solely because of one or two advanced stats is nonsense. There isn’t a single credible media member or voter framing their MVP argument like this.

Anyone saying this clearly hasn’t made even the slightest effort to actually understand why so many people have Jokic as their rightful MVP, and probably didn’t even watch him play.

[Cubbies2120]

The MVP has never been a “best stat” award or else Kobe should’ve won it over Nash in 06. Stat is the only argument Jokic has and this essentially sets a precedent and I hope the same energy is kept going forward….

Stat is the only argument he has?

Jokic played in more wins than Embiid or Giannis lol.

"The only argument Jokic has is he rates better in objective measures of performance that nobody minded until Jokic exploded them".

Jokic played in more wins basically means he played more games than Embiid and Giannis? How does that make him more worthy?

Do I need to explain to you that in order to have an impact on the result of a basketball game, you need to be on the court for said game?

Objective stats (literally dozens of them) quantify Jokic’s superior impact. Nobody had any gripes about these stats until Jokic completely dominated them to a point we have never seen before (and likely will never see again).

[Sharkboy242]

Back 2 Back MVP sure sounds nice.

[Gusto1903]

I’ve seen compelling evidence to the contrary including people who have no idea what raptor or Jurassic park or whatever the popular advanced stat is of the month. Zach Lowe has been propping him up for months which is probably why he won

Zach Lowe is a relative nobody. Does he seriously have that much influence?

Zach Lowe is a god amongst NBA media, and podcasters. There is a tweet from a media member stating that many members who didn't have votes just used Zach Lowe's ballots for their own votes.

This is exactly why media should not be able to vote on this. Too many people have a vote and they have no clue about what they're talking about.

I mean, that kind of reputation, you have to earn it tho. Even if he is influential, doesnt necessary mean, that what he stands for must be wrong.
Also tell me, who else should vote on the MVP?

[eyeatoma]

Zach Lowe is a relative nobody. Does he seriously have that much influence?

Zach Lowe is a god amongst NBA media, and podcasters. There is a tweet from a media member stating that many members who didn't have votes just used Zach Lowe's ballots for their own votes.

This is exactly why media should not be able to vote on this. Too many people have a vote and they have no clue about what they're talking about.

I mean, that kind of reputation, you have to earn it tho. Even if he is influential, doesnt necessary mean, that what he stands for must be wrong.
Also tell me, who else should vote on the MVP?

Former players...

Could do the top 75.

It does not sit right with me that AllNBA selection and MVP is contract incentivised.

The media should not be able to dictate what you get paid.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[Cubbies2120]

I’ve seen compelling evidence to the contrary including people who have no idea what raptor or Jurassic park or whatever the popular advanced stat is of the month. Zach Lowe has been propping him up for months which is probably why he won

Zach Lowe is a relative nobody. Does he seriously have that much influence?

Zach Lowe is a god amongst NBA media, and podcasters. There is a tweet from a media member stating that many members who didn't have votes just used Zach Lowe's ballots for their own votes.

So this media member (source?) knows for a fact that other, unnamed media members copied Lowe’s ballots?

Very interesting that they aren’t able to provide evidence of this on a public domain like, say, Twitter, YouTube, etc.

Another “Source: trust me, bro”, this time from a random media member? Weird.

You would think instead of tweeting it (again, source?) , they would make the evidence public and ensure the voters that are doing this are unable to vote ever again. He’s gotta have evidence to make a claim that bold, right? After all, MVP awards, All-NBA selections, other media awards can literally cost or gain a player many millions of dollars over the course of their career.

[Sharkboy242]

Zach Lowe is a relative nobody. Does he seriously have that much influence?

Zach Lowe is a god amongst NBA media, and podcasters. There is a tweet from a media member stating that many members who didn't have votes just used Zach Lowe's ballots for their own votes.

So this media member (source?) knows for a fact that other, unnamed media members copied Lowe’s ballots?

Very interesting that they aren’t able to provide evidence of this on a public domain like, say, Twitter, YouTube, etc.

Another “Source: trust me, bro”, this time from a random media member? Weird.

You would think instead of tweeting it (again, source?) , they would make the evidence public and ensure the voters that are doing this are unable to vote ever again. He’s gotta have evidence to make a claim that bold, right? After all, MVP awards, All-NBA selections, other media awards can literally cost or gain a player many millions of dollars over the course of their career.

Sixer's fans going deep into their conspiratorial bag.

You can have all those loud mouth talking heads on ESPN discounting Jokic, but one Zach Lowe = him being too influential, everything is rigged.

[Cubbies2120]

Zach Lowe is a god amongst NBA media, and podcasters. There is a tweet from a media member stating that many members who didn't have votes just used Zach Lowe's ballots for their own votes.

This is exactly why media should not be able to vote on this. Too many people have a vote and they have no clue about what they're talking about.

I mean, that kind of reputation, you have to earn it tho. Even if he is influential, doesnt necessary mean, that what he stands for must be wrong.
Also tell me, who else should vote on the MVP?

Former players...

Could do the top 75.

It does not sit right with me that AllNBA selection and MVP is contract incentivised.

The media should not be able to dictate what you get paid.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Or force said media members to watch full compilations of the top 5 nominated players, for every possession they were on the court. Obviously cut out the pointless dribbling where nothing happens, but include every action they were involved in.

Would be a week long process but I’m sure you can find 100 media members willing to sit through it.

[NetsJets]

Stat is the only argument he has?

Jokic played in more wins than Embiid or Giannis lol.

"The only argument Jokic has is he rates better in objective measures of performance that nobody minded until Jokic exploded them".

All I’ve heard was that he had the best RAPTOR and PER etc. Therefore he should be the MVP, the argument for Jokic is solely based on stats.

Jokic played in more wins basically means he played more games than Embiid and Giannis? How does that make him more worthy?

I don’t know where you, Nick Wright, and all the other Embiid stans who keep saying this are getting it from. This narrative that a bunch of votes went to Jokic solely because of one or two advanced stats is nonsense. There isn’t a single credible media member or voter framing their MVP argument like this.

Anyone saying this clearly hasn’t made even the slightest effort to actually understand why so many people have Jokic as their rightful MVP, and probably didn’t even watch him play.

Okay then what is it then? If Jokic didn’t win MVP purely based on having the best stats then what was it then? Go on social media all they talk about was how his stats were so amazing.

[Raps in 4]

All I’ve heard was that he had the best RAPTOR and PER etc. Therefore he should be the MVP, the argument for Jokic is solely based on stats.

Jokic played in more wins basically means he played more games than Embiid and Giannis? How does that make him more worthy?

I don’t know where you, Nick Wright, and all the other Embiid stans who keep saying this are getting it from. This narrative that a bunch of votes went to Jokic solely because of one or two advanced stats is nonsense. There isn’t a single credible media member or voter framing their MVP argument like this.

Anyone saying this clearly hasn’t made even the slightest effort to actually understand why so many people have Jokic as their rightful MVP, and probably didn’t even watch him play.

Okay then what is it then? If Jokic didn’t win MVP purely based on having the best stats then what was it then? Go on social media all they talk about was how his stats were so amazing.

He had the best counting stats.

He had the best advanced stats.

He had the most wins.

He did all that with a worse supporting cast than any other MVP candidate.

There is literally nothing left for him to beat Embiid in.

The only argument Embiid stans are cliging onto is that he lost in the first round. But that's to be expected considering the health of his team. The last time he had a healthy team, he made it to the WCF.

[Cubbies2120]

Zach Lowe is a god amongst NBA media, and podcasters. There is a tweet from a media member stating that many members who didn't have votes just used Zach Lowe's ballots for their own votes.

This is exactly why media should not be able to vote on this. Too many people have a vote and they have no clue about what they're talking about.

I mean, that kind of reputation, you have to earn it tho. Even if he is influential, doesnt necessary mean, that what he stands for must be wrong.
Also tell me, who else should vote on the MVP?

Former players...

Could do the top 75.


Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Remind me who selected the top 75 players? Were media members involved?

So we’re taking a step back and letting media members select the top 75 arbitrary players from all of NBA history, but not trusting them to select from a group of 3 players in a single year?

Do you think they watched all of the top 75 play, to pass the eye test, or do you think they may be…relying on…advanced….statistics to some degree? And if they were relying on these FLAWED ADVANCED STATS!!!, then the top 75 list is flawed, and our voter pool is tainted!

[NetsJets]

Stat is the only argument he has?

Jokic played in more wins than Embiid or Giannis lol.

"The only argument Jokic has is he rates better in objective measures of performance that nobody minded until Jokic exploded them".

Jokic played in more wins basically means he played more games than Embiid and Giannis? How does that make him more worthy?

Do I need to explain to you that in order to have an impact on the result of a basketball game, you need to be on the court for said game?

Objective stats (literally dozens of them) quantify Jokic’s superior impact. Nobody had any gripes about these stats until Jokic completely dominated them to a point we have never seen before (and likely will never see again).

Embiid was out on covid protocols. But again my point continues to be that having the best stats were never the sole criteria for MVP until this year. By that logic Shaq should’ve won it over Nash in 2005.

[NetsJets]

I don’t know where you, Nick Wright, and all the other Embiid stans who keep saying this are getting it from. This narrative that a bunch of votes went to Jokic solely because of one or two advanced stats is nonsense. There isn’t a single credible media member or voter framing their MVP argument like this.

Anyone saying this clearly hasn’t made even the slightest effort to actually understand why so many people have Jokic as their rightful MVP, and probably didn’t even watch him play.

Okay then what is it then? If Jokic didn’t win MVP purely based on having the best stats then what was it then? Go on social media all they talk about was how his stats were so amazing.

He had the best counting stats.

He had the best advanced stats.

He had the most wins.

He did that with a worse supporting cast than any other MVP candidate.

There is literally nothing left for him to beat Embiid in.

And my point remains that having the best stats were never the sole criteria for MVP otherwise Kobe should’ve won it over Dirk in 07.

[Sharkboy242]

Jokic played in more wins basically means he played more games than Embiid and Giannis? How does that make him more worthy?

Do I need to explain to you that in order to have an impact on the result of a basketball game, you need to be on the court for said game?

Objective stats (literally dozens of them) quantify Jokic’s superior impact. Nobody had any gripes about these stats until Jokic completely dominated them to a point we have never seen before (and likely will never see again).

Embiid was out on covid protocols. But again my point continues to be that having the best stats were never the sole criteria for MVP until this year. By that logic Shaq should’ve won it over Nash in 2005.

Still isn't but you're willfully ignorant or just joined the debate.

[Cubbies2120]

All I’ve heard was that he had the best RAPTOR and PER etc. Therefore he should be the MVP, the argument for Jokic is solely based on stats.

Jokic played in more wins basically means he played more games than Embiid and Giannis? How does that make him more worthy?

I don’t know where you, Nick Wright, and all the other Embiid stans who keep saying this are getting it from. This narrative that a bunch of votes went to Jokic solely because of one or two advanced stats is nonsense. There isn’t a single credible media member or voter framing their MVP argument like this.

Anyone saying this clearly hasn’t made even the slightest effort to actually understand why so many people have Jokic as their rightful MVP, and probably didn’t even watch him play.

Okay then what is it then? If Jokic didn’t win MVP purely based on having the best stats then what was it then? Go on social media all they talk about was how his stats were so amazing.

My guy it has been repeated multiple times in this thread for you, and you don’t want to accept it.

“By all objective measures, Jokic was superior to Embiid in the regular season”. Subjective measures, some say Jokic some say Embiid.

Regular stats, advanced stats, wins all point to Jokic. Unless you are crediting Embiid with wins he was on the bench for, or you’re considering playoff success in a regular season award, there is no argument for Embiid over Jokic.

Hell you would be hard pressed to make an argument for Embiid over Giannis besides voter fatigue.