NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 5: So who's winning MVP? )

[RB34]

The last 2 games showed how crucial & important Luka & Kyrie are to Mavericks. They aren't competetive without them at all.

Same goes for all the other MVP candidates. You think the Nuggets would compete without Jokic and Murray?

[Oscar9992]

The last 2 games showed how crucial & important Luka & Kyrie are to Mavericks. They aren't competetive without them at all.

Same goes for all the other MVP candidates. You think the Nuggets would compete without Jokic and Murray?

Correct. But some teams are still surprisingly good in absence some of their players.

[Yuri36]

The Mavs are 46-24 with Luka and 4-8 without Luka.

Meh, pretty disingenuous, given they're 0-5 when both Luka and Kyrie aren't playing.

Without Luka, but with Kyrie, they're 4-3, which means they're not hopeless without Luka as long as their other star is playing.

Jokic also has like a +20 on/off, while Luka is +8.

I know Luka has been the chosen one for IDK how long, but he hasn't proven himself worthy of winning MVP yet.

You're trolling, right?
We're supposed to be in a serious basketball board.

[QPR]

A center having more screen assists than a pg is now an argument for MVP. Gotta love this thread lol

Do you think MVP should be by position or something?

Screen assists are a direct contribution to a team's score so should be considered. Otherwise, you might start making the argument that Luka creates more points than Jokic purely by looking at PPG and APG, which isn't complete analysis.

Of course, there are plenty of things that aren't captured by direct stats (eg - every time Luka passes out of a double team to a player, who then kicks it out to an open corner, isn't going to go down as a stat for Luka, but it's clearly points created by him). Hence why advanced stats add value.

[losmi]

A center having more screen assists than a pg is now an argument for MVP. Gotta love this thread lol

Yeah, let's just discard all things that are expected for a certain position, like rebounds and screen assists for centers.

By that logic, Jokic center has a massive lead in box score assists over Luka point guard, because Luka's assists dont't count as it's expected for a point guard to have assists.

[Manimal]

Jokic has finished the season with the 3rd best BPM, 7th best VORP, and 50th most Win Shares in NBA history. Just barely missed having the second ever 2000 pt, 1000 reb, and 500 ast season as well, though that's his own category anyway. But it's also the 4th consecutive season of him leading the league in all of PER, WS, WS/48, BPM, and VORP...which I believe only LeBron and Jordan have accomplished (though Jordan did it for 6 consecutive seasons). Another historic season overall, and one of the best statistical primes we've ever witnessed.

[losmi]

A center having more screen assists than a pg is now an argument for MVP. Gotta love this thread lol

If you think this thread is nonsense because of mentioning screen assists as an argument for Jokic, here's a quote from an actual MVP voter:

Jokić shoots less often but more efficiently, while adding a ton of value (about an additional 10 points per game) as the screen-setting hub of a Nuggets offense

https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-nba-awards-official-picks-for-mvp-rookie-of-the-year-and-every-individual-honor-213934497.html

[scrabbarista]

I did some numbers today, and Jokic will probably have climbed from outside my top twenty to thirteenth on my all-time list during this regular season, pending MVP voting.

With a title, he probably climbs into the top ten (tenth?), which would be very special as a complete career - I do not project forward: my formula treats every player as if they're aleady retired - for someone not yet thirty.

These are guesses, depending on how the numbers would shake out.

[Sgt Major]

Let's not get carried away, "screen assists" are something we laughed at Gobert and Utah Jazz about a few years ago.

[CobraCommander]

Jokic finished the year as the run away mvp and potentially title favorite to everyone talking about this in media and media votes -

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/39861520/nba-mvp-straw-poll-where-jokic-luka-sga-other-contenders-stand-our-final-vote-2023-24

If jokic doesn’t get it it is because the writers don’t want jokic to join the pantheon of 3 time winners.

Side note - sometimes I love ChatGPT more when it is wrong-

Here is something ChatGPT got right and wrong but definitely is RIGHT-lol


“As of the latest information available, there are nine players in NBA history who have won the MVP award three times or more. Here’s a list of these players:

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 6 MVPs
2. Bill Russell - 5 MVPs
3. Michael Jordan - 5 MVPs
4. LeBron James - 4 MVPs
5. Wilt Chamberlain - 4 MVPs
6. Larry Bird - 3 MVPs
7. Magic Johnson - 3 MVPs
8. Moses Malone - 3 MVPs
9. Nikola Jokić - 3 MVPs (winning consecutively in 2021, 2022, and 2023).

These players have distinguished themselves not only as top performers in individual seasons but also as some of the most influential and skilled athletes in basketball history.“


Based on ChatGPT Jokic going for 4 MVPs today!


Jokic going for 4!!!!

[MoneyTalks41890]

I expect 2 and three to tighten up but otherwise yeah this is the result we should expect and has been the case since at least early in 2024.

Final points probably something like:

Jokic 920
SGA 580
Luka 550
Giannis 340
Tatum 120

Standing by this prediction.

[AleksandarN]

More votes are coming in. So far the it is 9 first place votes for Jokic and 1 for Luka and 0 for SGA

[stoo]

Jokic winning is fair, without complicating things ,compared to Luka. More rebounds, similar assists, less points (in 3 minutes per game less), better efficiency, better defender, better team record by 7 wins, has 24 losses when he played, just as luka, in 9 more games

[Profound23]

Luka or SGA should win it

[AleksandarN]

Luka or SGA should win it

Why not jokic?

[Infinite Llamas]

Luka or SGA should win it

Why not jokic?

Bucks fans insecure about Jokic having more MVPs than Giannis??

[MaliBrah]

SGA went 3-1 vs denver , finished with the top seed ahead of all t3 MVP candidates , had numbers only peak MJ and Unanimous Steph did with the youngest team to have the 1st seed in NBA History and wont even come close to SNIFFING the mvp. Cruel world, there's dozen of winners that have gotten it for less.

[famicommander]

Jokic has finished the season with the 3rd best BPM, 7th best VORP, and 50th most Win Shares in NBA history. Just barely missed having the second ever 2000 pt, 1000 reb, and 500 ast season as well, though that's his own category anyway. But it's also the 4th consecutive season of him leading the league in all of PER, WS, WS/48, BPM, and VORP...which I believe only LeBron and Jordan have accomplished (though Jordan did it for 6 consecutive seasons). Another historic season overall, and one of the best statistical primes we've ever witnessed.

You forgot about Kareem in the bolded, he did it as well in the mid to late 70s, but it's still absurdly impressive to put yourself on a four man list with Kareem, Jordan, and LeBron.

[hagredionis]

Luka or SGA should win it

Why not jokic?

I see we have to do this again. Luka is ahead on PPG (huge margin), APG, SPG and is also ahead on EPM, EW and DRIP. The Mavs also had by far the worse luck with the injuries.

[Wolfgang630]

Do we have an update on the votes?