MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

[KGtabake]

Tonight we're facing the Rockets. If we win, we're tied with Torono for the 2nd seed in the east.
If they win,they are tied with Denver and LAC for the 2nd seed in the west.
That's a big matchup.

Tatum's is having one of the most impressive "superstar in the making" leaps i've seen in the last decade.
Westbrook's 2020 is the best i've seen of him in years.

[Magic Giannison]

Giannis now leads the league in PER, PIPM, PIE, WS/48, BPM, RPM

[KGtabake]

Tonight we're facing the Rockets. If we win, we're tied with Torono for the 2nd seed in the east.
If they win,they are tied with Denver and LAC for the 2nd seed in the west.
That's a big matchup.

Tatum's is having one of the most impressive "superstar in the making" leaps i've seen in the last decade.
Westbrook's 2020 is the best i've seen of him in years.

Well we didn't win lol
Westbrook is a different beast nowadays.
Still, i think that Tatum can win the ECPoTM.
If we go by the numbers alone, Giannis will win again since his line is absurd again and the Bucks went 11-1.
I just feel that the media award youngsters with these "awards" since they can't actually win the whole thing.
His February was amazing.

Read on Twitter

[Jayt99]

Every Media outlet I watch keeps making a case for Lebron. I hope none of those guys have votes. This is Giannis and it's not particularly close.

[scrabbarista]

Giannis now leads the league in PER, PIPM, PIE, WS/48, BPM, RPM

He's clearly the MVP so far, but each of those is a per-minute stat, and he's 70th in minutes played. In the cumulative versions of RPM, BPM, WS, and RAPTOR, James Harden leads the league. There's no cumulative versions of PER or PIE (to my knowledge), but simple fractions show that Harden would lead in a cumulative PER, and Antetokounmpo would have about a 1% advantage in a cumulative PIE. In PIPM WA, Antetokounmpo leads Harden by 11.5 to 11.4.

*****In summary, in the cumulative versions of these stats, Harden leads the league in 5 out of 7 categories, with Antetokoumpo having such small leads over Harden in the other two that it could flip in a single game.*****

Antetokounmpo is clearly the MVP so far, but Harden is even more clearly second, as seen in my recent top three (before Friday and Saturday's games):

18.1 Antetokounmpo
17.1 Harden
15.4 James

Not trying to contradict you: nothing but facts from you, and I think the facts also support my point that James Harden is second.

[scrabbarista]

Tonight we're facing the Rockets. If we win, we're tied with Torono for the 2nd seed in the east.
If they win,they are tied with Denver and LAC for the 2nd seed in the west.
That's a big matchup.

Tatum's is having one of the most impressive "superstar in the making" leaps i've seen in the last decade.
Westbrook's 2020 is the best i've seen of him in years.

Well we didn't win lol
Westbrook is a different beast nowadays.
Still, i think that Tatum can win the ECPoTM.
If we go by the numbers alone, Giannis will win again since his line is absurd again and the Bucks went 11-1.
I just feel that the media award youngsters with these "awards" since they can't actually win the whole thing.
His February was amazing.

Read on Twitter

Yeah, he climbed all the way up to 10th on my MVP ranking as of Friday morning. I think he wasn't even the top Celtic for most of the season, but his February was so good that he now has a massive lead over Kemba. He actually played an excellent game Saturday, too. He just missed a few make-able shots. I think the Celtics were a harder matchup for Houston without Kemba to target. Smart, Jaylen, and Tatum is a great perimeter defensive trio, and Hayward is no slouch, either. That game was kind of a coin flip. Houston had lost one against Utah recently, so maybe the law of averages was at work.

[KGtabake]

Tonight we're facing the Rockets. If we win, we're tied with Torono for the 2nd seed in the east.
If they win,they are tied with Denver and LAC for the 2nd seed in the west.
That's a big matchup.

Tatum's is having one of the most impressive "superstar in the making" leaps i've seen in the last decade.
Westbrook's 2020 is the best i've seen of him in years.

Well we didn't win lol
Westbrook is a different beast nowadays.
Still, i think that Tatum can win the ECPoTM.
If we go by the numbers alone, Giannis will win again since his line is absurd again and the Bucks went 11-1.
I just feel that the media award youngsters with these "awards" since they can't actually win the whole thing.
His February was amazing.

Read on Twitter

Yeah, he climbed all the way up to 10th on my MVP ranking as of Friday morning. I think he wasn't even the top Celtic for most of the season, but his February was so good that he now has a massive lead over Kemba. He actually played an excellent game Saturday, too. He just missed a few make-able shots. I think the Celtics were a harder matchup for Houston without Kemba to target. Smart, Jalen, and Tatum is a great perimeter defensive trio, and Hayward is no slouch, either. That game was kind of a coin flip. Houston had lost one against Utah recently, so maybe the law of averages was at work.

If Westbrook keeps this up(no reason to think he won't) and Harden continues to be so comfortable off ball(same) Houston will shock the West in the playoffs. I know what PJ can do and Covington is probably the win of midseason.
Didn't like the scheme at first. Looks like i was wrong.
Denver, Utah have no shot with Houston. LAC will be a tough one because they can go small easily too.
Lakers will be an enigma. Maybe you should stay away from OKC too, just for CP. We'll see.

And yes, Tatum has stepped up in a way only Isiah Thomas had in recent Celtics teams. Different cases, same excitement

[greekbuck34]

Harden is definitely not clearly second especially with how Westbrook is also playing in 2020.
He recovered from probably his worst month of his career(January) when he dropped out for the race for a while but Westbrook plays atleast as good as him in February. Just like Lebron he is getting hurt by having another top 5 player besides him.

To be fair consistency is what hurts Harden the most again. Lebron is more consistent than him and that's why he is still clearly second imo. If Harden had a better January he would have been closer to Giannis that where Lebron is right now though and that says a lot.

[clyde21]

this is such a terrible year for MVPs outside Giannis

[SeniorWalker]

So.....the media wouldnt actually give the MVP to LeBron, right? Like for real. Because after that Rachel Nichols segment where she tried to bring Kobe's death into it, I became convinced that they will try by any means necessary. Like, theres a huge gap and they know it, but they're looking for a way to make it close anyway.

I dunno. Maybe it's enough for the Nike/LeBron brand to act like he could have won MVP or claim to have been the rightful winner in year 17.

[scrabbarista]

So.....the media wouldnt actually give the MVP to LeBron, right? Like for real.

Personally, I don't think the media would, but eh, who knows. It would be a horrible injustice, but much worse has happened, in my opinion (Nash, Rose, etc., don't @ me). The difference, in my opinion, is that those occurred when advanced metrics either didn't exist or weren't so easily available to the public.

[SeniorWalker]

So.....the media wouldnt actually give the MVP to LeBron, right? Like for real.

Personally, I don't think the media would, but eh, who knows. It would be a horrible injustice, but much worse has happened before, in my opinion (Nash, Rose, etc., don't @ me). The difference, in my opinion, is that those occurred when advanced metrics either didn't exist or weren't so easily available to the public.

I disagree about Rose. Rose was not the best player in the NBA but his team was the best in the league and he was the most important player who carried their mediocre (very poor spacing and shooting) offense. I think he was a weaker MVP but he at least had that argument which is a big factor in how the award is traditionally judged.

LeBron doesnt even have that this year because the bucks are running away with the best record en route to a top 3 all time record AND Giannis has been a thoroughly better player. LeBron has nothing on him.

If LeBron were to win this year it would be the worst awarding in history, case closed.

[scrabbarista]

1. Looking at both the cumulative and per-minute versions of PIPM, Win Shares, BPM/VORP, RPM, RAPTOR, PER, and PIE:

James Harden = 12
LeBron James = 2

Harden is 1st in the league in 6 of these 14 metrics, and James' highest finish in any is 3rd.

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2. Harden had a bad 9 game stretch from the 9th of January through the 29th, and (not literally, obvs) everyone was like:

"Yay!!! Now we can ignore the other 47 games that he's averaging 37 ppg on 64% TS%!"

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3. Westbrook, playing great, has garnered the headlines during the Rockets' recent success even while Harden's been scoring more, assisting more, rebounding more, stealing more, blocking more, playing more (games), and doing it all more efficiently than Westbrook.

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Sometimes, all I can do is laugh.

[clyde21]

So.....the media wouldnt actually give the MVP to LeBron, right? Like for real. Because after that Rachel Nichols segment where she tried to bring Kobe's death into it, I became convinced that they will try by any means necessary. Like, theres a huge gap and they know it, but they're looking for a way to make it close anyway.

I dunno. Maybe it's enough for the Nike/LeBron brand to act like he could have won MVP or claim to have been the rightful winner in year 17.

they're trying real hard to give it to LeBron, it's pathetic, if that happens there should be a revolt. heck, it would be an injustice if Giannis isn't a unanimous winner but you know a few ESPN turds are gonna give LeBron the nod because reasons

meanwhile Giannis just dropped another 40/20 game, they hate to see it.

[TD75]

Giannis with 41/20/6 in 34 minutes (17/28 FGM/FGA).

Just 7 footer things

I guess that is what happens when the Bucks need to try in the 4th quarter.

Congrats to anyone really thinking that Giannis' production would not carry over to 36-38 minutes of game time.

[HotRocks34]

Bucks beat Hornets
Bucks 52-8
Giannis 41/20/6

[The Lazy Potato]

Giannis is just an unskilled guy who casually drop 41/20/6. Harden for MVP !!!

[scrabbarista]

So.....the media wouldnt actually give the MVP to LeBron, right? Like for real. Because after that Rachel Nichols segment where she tried to bring Kobe's death into it, I became convinced that they will try by any means necessary. Like, theres a huge gap and they know it, but they're looking for a way to make it close anyway.

I dunno. Maybe it's enough for the Nike/LeBron brand to act like he could have won MVP or claim to have been the rightful winner in year 17.

they're trying real hard to give it to LeBron, it's pathetic, if that happens there should be a revolt. heck, it would be an injustice if Giannis isn't a unanimous winner but you know a few ESPN turds are gonna give LeBron the nod because reasons

meanwhile Giannis just dropped another 40/20 game, they hate to see it.

Well, actually... it's the first 40/20 game of his career.

But yeah, he's making a big push and stretching his lead, looking to slam the door. LeBron isn't really close to him.

[Yeggo Poleggo]

It's all Giannis, noone else comes close.

[scrabbarista]

I had Antetokounmpo with a somewhat comfortable lead before his last two great games (a monster today), but since no one's really arguing against him at the moment - and rightfully so... I thought this was interesting:


James Harden, "worst month of his career" (January)
12 games, 28.6 ppg, .535 TS%

Russell Westbrook, start of the 2020 season
29 games, 24.1 ppg, .505 TS%


Even as someone who's been deeply plugged into the stats all season, I found these splits fairly surprising. I think this says a lot about anchoring/expectations and narratives/media coverage. Food for thought.