Kobe Bryant Discussion, Part Two

[Pablo Escobar]

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[JayMKE]

Postponing the game is not appropriate, I think the show always has to go on. Kobe would have wanted to play.

[Illuminatos]

so why is the game cancelled tomorrow?

So is this gonna happen every time a laker player/legend dies?

If they tragically die young, then yes.

[WestbrookLove]

It's been a couple of days now, and I think I'm finally getting past the shock stage.

I think what's made his death cause fans -- even my older half-sister, who isn't much of a sports fan -- to react so strongly is that it was so sudden, so unexpected, and he was so young and so invested in his daughters and in teaching younger people the game. Those of us who are more invested in sports also remember his entire career, so it feels like the death of someone you somehow knew on some level, especially for those who like myself aren't very sociable. Kobe was such a familiar face. I remember his career in detail: there were times when I really liked him, times when I loathed him, but I ultimately respected how dedicated he was to the game and what he was able to do with his talents. I shared a story on the Kobe memory thread about watching his final game with my mother (also since passed). Everyone knew he was one of the greats, a first ballot HOFer, but he didn't even live to see his HOF induction.

And from one final angle, we've all dealt with the deaths of famous people who OD'd on drugs or this or that, but this one I think was harder for many of us because it is such a freak, terrible accident, and he was there with one of his daughters. They and the people on-board died a death no one wants to go through. And the way it was initially reported in the news seemed so fake, with TMZ being the first. I was browsing the Internet, and it was such a surreal, gradual bombardment.

So it's been way harder for me to handle than I expected. I'm 35 and I can't remember a famous person's death being like this.

[Pennebaker]

I'm following TMZ, and apparently Kobe's pilot was going very fast for foggy conditions at 161 knots.

"Sikorsky S-76 was at about 1,700 feet when it crashed. Flight tracker data also shows the chopper's speed was about 161 knots. Several experienced pilots tell us they're baffled the pilot, Ara Zoboyan, was going that fast in heavy fog.

In the seconds prior to crashing, Zobayan took the helicopter from 1200 feet to 2000 feet within a matter of seconds. It appears he cleared one hillside, only to strike the next."

It was too foggy to fly, but the pilot had a license to fly in the fog. Besides the weather, why he was flying so fast is a mystery.

Spatial disorientation.

[Phystic]

You saying you don't risk a life due to convenience can apply to everyone on board that flight. We take risks every day, we hedge our bets. Have you traveled in the rain? When it's windy? Snow? Slightly icey roads? We all take calculated risks when traveling. None of us know the circumstances or discussions that were had. Did you read the post by the poster that was a naval helicopter pilot? He could have been hit with sudden vertigo due to worsening conditions? Or the witness that said that little valley had a tendency to have a little micro climates where weather sticks there. From what I've read, the visibility was poor but within acceptable conditions to fly given the necessary precautions. You can even listen to the traffic control conversations. I would assume that if the weather was too poor to fly he would not have gotten clearance to take off, or one of the multiple air traffic controllers he spoke with during the flight would have had him land until it cleared up.

I'm not saying the man didn't possibly make a mistake but we don't know the conditions, or what could have led to a potential mistakes. Pilots fly in poor weather conditions every single day. I'd bet money that it wasn't the first time Kobe himself took a helicopter ride in less than ideal weather conditions.

Lastly, my initial point was that the man should not be the focus of rage. He lost his life like everyone aboard. It's tragic, I get people find comfort in focusing blame/responsibility. But I think people should try to keep emotions in check when it comes to that. Mob mentality can easily take over in these situations, and people need to remember there is a family grieving that man too.

EDIT: fixed ton of typos

I don't see anybody raging here (maybe other than yourself). We're pointing out a very simple point (which IMO is unbeatable) that the helicopter crashed due to pilot error. There was clearly a risk in flying in fog conditions and the pilot clearly made other mistakes which led the helicopter to crash on a mountain.

I'm sorry, but this crash is on the pilot. It doesn't mean he's a villain. It was obviously and accident and not malice or premeditation.

It is what it is.

How am I raging? My posts weren't emotional or angry in any way. I clearly explained that you seem to really be pushing this point. The investigation hasn't concluded, none of us know the cause. You're making an assumption. It could very well turn out to be a result of pilot error. Wouldn't be shocking, as most accidents are user related.

If it turns out that the man made a mistake of some kind, what does that change exactly? What's the purpose in you continually pushing this narrative? I don't get it.

[kwb]

so why is the game cancelled tomorrow?

So is this gonna happen every time a laker player/legend dies?

How insensitive can you get....

1% of the population are sociopaths

some symptoms
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
Shallow Emotions
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Need for Stimulation
------------------------
i stopped being surprised once i realized that 1 out 100 people are like this.

Dealt with this yesterday with someone on IG. Sad state some people are in when a tragedy occurs and how they take full advantage of it. If people want to grieve, let them grieve. Doesn't matter if they didn't know the guy personally. Or what he did in the past. It's called forgiveness.These trolls so to say are just putting on a show. None of them would ever act this way towards someone's family who just died in the place they live. It's beyond pathetic. You just have to remember most of these types of people are in miserable places in life and they want others to be there with them so they can then validate their emotions. Just ignore them and wish them well.

[Phystic]

That's fair, and you're right to say that even if the pilot was to blame, someone is suffering from his death as well regardless.

But again, the reports I'm reading are that the pilot had to request "special clearance" to fly that day in heavy fog and that he was a 'VFR pilot', which is supposedly the type of pilot that relies on his visuals to navigate rather than instrument use. We all make mistakes and you're probably right that this wasn't the first time Kobe flew in questionable conditions; but if you're specifically a VFR pilot requesting special permission to fly through unusually heavy fog when seemingly nobody else is flying, well, I just view that as a preventable mistake. It hurts to know that there's a good chance we're all suffering and families were torn apart from a preventable mistake.

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Based on the information released so far that I've read, it does appear it could have been avoided. But all accidents could have been avoided if one or two choices were changed. And I hadn't read he requested special permission, that's good to know. But he was a VFR pilot, which from my limited understanding is required to fly in low visibility conditions. So wouldn't that make sense? He was certified to fly in the unideal circumstance and either made a mistake or just had a tragic accident.

I can only speak for myself, but I just feel it's a fruitless endeavor to try to place blame. What comes out of it? The only people that will suffer from it is the man's family. But again, I understand. People grieve their own ways, and sometimes that includes trying to place responsibility to cope.

Are you trolling? So you must think it was wrong for captain Schettino to get a manslaughter charge for accidentally hitting rocks in his cruise ship killing 32 people. Why would it matter if the pilot dies or lives the accident? He's equally at fault either way. The only reason to lay blame is to prevent future accidents like it. Better training and regulations will follow. That's how the airline industry saves lives by placing blame and fixing problem areas.

No, I'm not trolling. Are you?

I don't know the specifics of the case you're talking about. Negligence is not equivalent to a mistake, accident or even a potential medical issue. Unless there was some mechanical issue that has not been found yet, it's pretty clear that the pilot would be at fault in one manner or another, considering he is the one in control of the aircraft.

[Gus McCrae]

Postponing the game is not appropriate, I think the show always has to go on. Kobe would have wanted to play.

The players are grieving. The whole city is grieving. Staples Center is essentially a memorial right now. I don't think many people in LA would want to watch a Laker game today.

[zimpy27]

It's interesting to see the variety ways people are dealing with this:
- there are the tearful posts
- there are those who keep searching for the most emotional content
- there are those on a mission to determine how the helicopter went down
- there are some people who don't seem to have much emotion
- there are people trying to undermine their own emotions with logic
- there are people in disbelief

[Kilroy]

Based on the information released so far that I've read, it does appear it could have been avoided. But all accidents could have been avoided if one or two choices were changed. And I hadn't read he requested special permission, that's good to know. But he was a VFR pilot, which from my limited understanding is required to fly in low visibility conditions. So wouldn't that make sense? He was certified to fly in the unideal circumstance and either made a mistake or just had a tragic accident.

I can only speak for myself, but I just feel it's a fruitless endeavor to try to place blame. What comes out of it? The only people that will suffer from it is the man's family. But again, I understand. People grieve their own ways, and sometimes that includes trying to place responsibility to cope.

Are you trolling? So you must think it was wrong for captain Schettino to get a manslaughter charge for accidentally hitting rocks in his cruise ship killing 32 people. Why would it matter if the pilot dies or lives the accident? He's equally at fault either way. The only reason to lay blame is to prevent future accidents like it. Better training and regulations will follow. That's how the airline industry saves lives by placing blame and fixing problem areas.

No, I'm not trolling. Are you?

I don't know the specifics of the case you're talking about. Negligence is not equivalent to a mistake, accident or even a potential medical issue. Unless there was some mechanical issue that has not been found yet, it's pretty clear that the pilot would be at fault in one manner or another, considering he is the one in control of the aircraft.

I'm just not sure what the point of all this is?
Arguing semantics gets no one closer to understanding what happened, nor does it help with the sadness and disbelief over what's been lost.
Which is the actual point of this thread...

There's no 'being right' about this, or any other tragedy... In fact, even if the pilot had been on drugs, lost his license and left his eyeglasses at home when this happened... It wouldn't get anyone any closer to understanding why Kobe and Gigi died that day.

Finding fault is a poor substitute for finding peace.

[kwb]

Postponing the game is not appropriate, I think the show always has to go on. Kobe would have wanted to play.

The players are grieving. The whole city is grieving. Staples Center is essentially a memorial right now. I don't think many people in LA would want to watch a Laker game today.

Most if not all places of employment give bereavement leave. I don't see how this is any different. If someone close to me died, I wouldn't be able to work. I actually had someone very close to me die in November. I took a week off of work. There was no way mentally I could have handled that.

People need to be reminded that this is not about basketball right now. It's bigger than that.

[geezr714]

It's interesting to see the variety ways people are dealing with this:
- there are the tearful posts
- there are those who keep searching for the most emotional content
- there are those on a mission to determine how the helicopter went down
- there are some people who don't seem to have much emotion
- there are people trying to undermine their own emotions with logic
- there are people in disbelief

I myself, still can't bring myself to really watch any old interviews or games.

I can watch others talk about their experiences and past stories about Kobe, but I still can't watch the man himself. Heck, I was planning on driving to Staples yesterday after work since it's bout 10 minutes out, I still couldn't do that lol.

Still in disbelief for sure. It'll take a few more days before it really sinks in for me.

[alienswon]

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[The Explorer]

It's interesting to see the variety ways people are dealing with this:
- there are the tearful posts
- there are those who keep searching for the most emotional content
- there are those on a mission to determine how the helicopter went down
- there are some people who don't seem to have much emotion
- there are people trying to undermine their own emotions with logic
- there are people in disbelief

And unfortunately there are a lot of people bringing up 15 year old transgressions at this time to try to counter the positive talk about him.

[Roger Murdock]

I just can’t believe he’s gone. He felt destined for greatness and was just getting started. He seemed so happy too.

[Rhyno]

McGrady's comments on how Kobe used to tell him he 'wanted to die young'...wow. Out of all the interviews, I think that got to me the most--when you hear something like that.

[13th Man]

I broke down watching McGrady's interview, there are no words to describe what they're all going through.

[lakerz12]

It's interesting to see the variety ways people are dealing with this:
- there are the tearful posts
- there are those who keep searching for the most emotional content
- there are those on a mission to determine how the helicopter went down
- there are some people who don't seem to have much emotion
- there are people trying to undermine their own emotions with logic
- there are people in disbelief

I'm all of those, depending on the moment.

[NO-KG-AI]

It seems like basketball has been able to hold onto its legends for a long time. Just never expected to be saying farewell to Kobe Bryant before the pioneers of the sport and the old guard. Seems like of the top 25 players ever, almost all of them are still alive, and we just expect to see them slowly pass as they get older...

Like I said before, Kobe is the age of my older cousins that I looked up to, and he was one of the first guys where I felt like as a kid, that another kid was living the dream. It feels like an older cousin, or one of the older kids from your neighborhood that you thought was super cool growing up is suddenly gone.