2021-22 Rookie Thread

[AsparaGus]

When the Toronto Raptors beat the odds and landed the No. 4 pick in the 2021 NBA Draft, speculation started brewing as to who they would select. The expectation was that in some order, Cade Cunningham, Jalen Green and Evan Mobley would be the first three players off of a draft board loaded with potential. Beyond that, there was no consensus on who the fourth-best player would be.

It was widely assumed the pick would be made based off of fit, which led to all signs pointing in one direction for the Raptors.

The writing was on the wall that veteran guard Kyle Lowry would be headed elsewhere in free agency, leaving a greatest player in franchise history-sized void at the point guard position. With Gonzaga freshman Jalen Suggs standing out as a renowned floor general, leader and winner, he became the anticipated pick for Toronto, all the way up until NBA commissioner Adam Silver stepped to the podium to announce the franchise's selection.

With the fourth pick in the 2021 NBA Draft, the Toronto Raptors select... Scottie Barnes, Florida State University.

There was an audible gasp at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn - the noise of genuine shock from the NBA world in real-time.

Suggs went to the Orlando Magic with the very next pick, sparking immediate debate about the Raptors' selection. It was right then and there where the two joined an ever-growing list of players who will forever be linked to through the draft.

You can trace draft class rivalries all the way back to 1979 and the days of Larry Bird and Magic Johnson (even though they weren't technically in the same draft class, but they shared the same rookie season following one of college basketball's all-time greatest rivalries). Others like Hakeem Olajuwon and Michael Jordan in 1984 and LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony in 2003 stand out, as well.

Recently, draft class rivalries - or comparisons - seem to be more prominent than ever before. Maybe it's just the media driving a narrative (as I'm doing right now), since the players hardly ever admit to holding any sort of grudge with the foe they're compared to, but the juice always seems to be there whenever the two subjects go head-to-head.

For four straight years now, you could point to at least one tandem in each draft class that is worthy of a "rivalry."

Starting in 2018, Luka Doncic and Trae Young will forever be linked together after being swapped for one another in a draft day trade. The following year, although there was little debate about who should go No. 1 overall at the time, I'm sure there are some whispers out there about taking Ja Morant over Zion Williamson in a 2019 re-draft. In 2020, we had a Rookie of the Year race for the ages between No. 1 pick Anthony Edwards and No. 3 pick LaMelo Ball, two players who seem destined for superstardom already.

This year, there is only one "rivalry” worth following closely: Barnes-Suggs.

Barnes has been arguably the best player in his draft class through the first five games, which, as you know, is an incredibly small sample size. However, the questions about his shooting are already being resolved and he looks more aggressive on offence than ever before, averaging 17.0 points per game, second-most among rookies. He's been as good as advertised on the defensive end, a force on the glass and his playmaking is coming along nicely, fresh off of a career-high seven assists.

Meanwhile, Suggs has gotten off to a slower start than expected, struggling on offence, shooting 28.6 percent from the field and 21.4 percent from 3 with an equal number of assists and turnovers.

Raptors fans may feel good about their pick now, and they should, but Magic fans should be far from hitting the panic button as their 20-year-old rookie finds his footing in the league. The debates aren't going to end, because that's what fans love to do, but Barnes made it clear where he stands on this make-belief "rivalry" ahead of their first matchup.

They say comparison is the thief of joy, but it sure is fun to watch in real time.

After last night’s game, I would say the vs battle is 1-0 for Suggs. Looking forward to the next decade of matchups.

[Funcrusher]

[grimlock]

No one cares about Banton brah lol

I get that he looks like he can be a decent rotation player but he's getting way too much mention from fellow Rap fans in this thread. You'd swear we found Jokic in the 2nd rd the amount times you guys throw him into conversation lol he plays with great energy and pace but there isn't something about him that stands out so much that he's needed to brought up as much as he has.

It’s the rookie thread. Any nice mentions if any rookie is fine

Banton has been great so far so it’s fair to give him attention and props. Been the best 2nd rounder so far

2nd rounder who people thought was a toss away mercy selection as a good faith gesture to a fellow Torontonian. Now we're talking about a guy who could be 1st off the bench (until Siakam gets back). 6 games, but the eye test says he's got the right stuff. Hard to scout against, so I don't forsee much of a dip for the rest of the season.

[Takingbaconback]

Also got Bones Hyland in Denver looking like a problem. Draft class looks awesome.

[NRSV]

Are Raptors fans always like this? Wow.

[Bruin]

Are Raptors fans always like this? Wow.

Like what

[XTC]

Are Raptors fans always like this? Wow.

Like what

The rookie thread last season was like 15 pages...

It's October and we have it at 40+ pages

We did it folks... we've taken over the general board

[Bruin]

Are Raptors fans always like this? Wow.

Like what

The rookie thread last season was like 15 pages...

It's October and we have it at 40+ pages

We did it folks... we've taken over the general board

Quite a difference when the future of the franchise actually has hope. Malachi wasn’t worth coming to the GB lol

[ForeverTFC]

Are Raptors fans always like this? Wow.

Like what

The rookie thread last season was like 15 pages...

It's October and we have it at 40+ pages

We did it folks... we've taken over the general board

Last year’s stand out rookies played in Minnesota and Charlotte. These fan bases aren’t super active on RGM. If a Celtics, Lakers, or Knicks rookie was in the top 2 so early, thread would be at the same page count. Their fan bases - along with the Raptors - dominate RGM.

[DCasey91]

Wasnt impressed with Mobley but AD is a tough matchup on both ends

How so? That would have been his toughest matchup imo. Watching the game all five were putting the vet moves and imposing their physicality on him (Howard, Jordan, Anthony, James and AD). If you watched what they were doing behind the ball there was at least 2 by my count that should have definitely been called for an O foul.

A few chicken wing elbows, grabs, hip checks, pushing and shoving which is fair game, but you could tell Mobley got frustrated when he got the foul trying to hold the ball against Lebron/AD from memory.

Doesn’t help that the refs can be pretty bad consistently (both teams in any game it’s random). The Allen grab and the shoulder charge from LBJ on Marks were lol.

AD just existed that game.

Bickerstaff couldn’t wait to get Mobley back on the floor because the whole dynamics of the Cavs team was night and day. It didn’t help that Sexton/Love had their worst games and Osman didn’t even see the court which is kind of silly when Stevens was hopeless. Cedi should have been on Lebron better matchup imo

[islanders11040]

Any Cade Cunningham updates for tonight? im excited to watch him play. hope he debuts tonight.

[Shy Gorgeous-Al]

Any Cade Cunningham updates for tonight? im excited to watch him play. hope he debuts tonight.

Supposed to play tonight.

[Bruin]

Any Cade Cunningham updates for tonight? im excited to watch him play. hope he debuts tonight.

Supposed to play tonight.

Is it official? All I saw was that he’s just not on the injury report. No official announcements though

Hope he plays, can’t wait to see him

[Ayt]

Any Cade Cunningham updates for tonight? im excited to watch him play. hope he debuts tonight.

Supposed to play tonight.

Is it official? All I saw was that he’s just not on the injury report. No official announcements though

Hope he plays, can’t wait to see him

He's not on the injury report for the Pistons so he should make his debut.

[Bruin]

Supposed to play tonight.

Is it official? All I saw was that he’s just not on the injury report. No official announcements though

Hope he plays, can’t wait to see him

He's not on the injury report for the Pistons so he should make his debut.

Awesome gonna have to make sure I check in on that game

Also just saw that Kuminga is gonna debut tonight too

[MotownMadness]

Is it official? All I saw was that he’s just not on the injury report. No official announcements though

Hope he plays, can’t wait to see him

He's not on the injury report for the Pistons so he should make his debut.

Awesome gonna have to make sure I check in on that game

Also just saw that Kuminga is gonna debut tonight too

Was Kuminga hurt? Thought he just wasn't playing due to some depth issues or something on a playoff team

[Ayt]

He's not on the injury report for the Pistons so he should make his debut.

Awesome gonna have to make sure I check in on that game

Also just saw that Kuminga is gonna debut tonight too

Was Kuminga hurt? Thought he just wasn't playing due to some depth issues or something on a playoff team

He's been inactive with a knee injury.

[basketballRob]

I have higher hopes about Suggs than I do Cade Cunningham. I think Suggs is better on both ends and translates better to the NBA!

Really?!?

Actually bit surprised by that. I swear I'm not hating on Suggs, I know people see "Raptor fan" and assume oh hear we go again lol but honestly Suggs has looked fairly unimpressive (offensively) pretty much the whole way through. Even last night's production was on yet again very poor shooting percentages. Not only is his shot concerning, it's that his ballhandling looks incredibly suspect which is a huge no no as a PG/SG (nvm not great length with his wingspan at the position.

Almost all the opposite could be said for Cade. Cade shot MUCH better percentages in college, has excellent size for a guard (likely will be put at SG) and a tighter handle. I think some people might end up being hard on Cade based on the inaccurate Luka comparisons when he's far more Tatum like with some better passing instincts. Not only skill and talent wise do I favor Cade but also situations they're entering. Cade is 100% going to be featured...Suggs is struggling to find his confidence, Cole is ball dominant/ball hoggish and eventually Fultz will return which likely pushes Suggs to the bench with Harris. Don't see how he moves ahead of Cade coming off the bench.

The only place I can see Suggs being ahead of Cade really is defensively and his passing on the break that's one thing I have to give Suggs -- he has EXCELLENT instincts as a defender and on the break; likely all due to his football experience. He knows when to commit to going after the ball ie/ when to jump a lane for steals or when to commit to going after a blocked shot and of course on the break he sees his cutters extremely well...but the rest of his game, not a match for Cade, not yet at least.

Cole will go to the bench before Suggs.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Liqourish]

Any Cade Cunningham updates for tonight? im excited to watch him play. hope he debuts tonight.

Supposed to play tonight.

Is it official? All I saw was that he’s just not on the injury report. No official announcements though

Hope he plays, can’t wait to see him

Dwane Casey has confirmed he will debut tonight. He's on minutes restriction. Will play around 20-25 minutes.

[Prez]

If were talking theoretical max ceilings both Mobley and Barnes have the potential to blow past KG in terms of players.

KG is like one of the 15 or so best players of all time…“blowing past” a player of that caliber isn’t happening unless you’re basically a GOAT tier player. Which…I like Barnes/Mobley but that’s not happening imo.

Here's the thing.

Every rookie that comes out is always going to be shrugged off in terms of their ceiling.

A player of Mobley's height, wingspan and mobility truly has no true absolute ceiling. Hypothetically.

We don't know how good his ball handling or shot is going to be in the next few years.

The only real thing we can predict with Mobley is that he can likely anchor a defense in the future. Mobley's offensive game can go as low as Rudy Gobert to as high as ????, maybe he's the new KG with a legit, or even deadly 3 point shot.

We don't know.

Or maybe he never improves further on the offensive end.


Let's also take your guy Giannis, in his rookie year nobody thought he'd become what he was, everyone probably compared him to some marginal All Star player at the time for his ceiling, he had great tools but was pretty raw, now here we are.

This is kinda why I don't like talking about players ceilings, you just don't know.

Again keep in mind i'm not saying he's going to become as good as KG was, what I am saying is that we know what KGs ceiling was, we don't know what Mobley's ceiling is.

This argument could extend to basically any talented, physically gifted young player. I could sit here and claim Jalen Green's ceiling is Jordan-level and defend it with "we just don't know, with his athletic ability he could do anything". Just because we don't know what a player's ceiling is doesn't mean it's limitless, and this absolute ceiling argument that depends on the player basically becoming a near perfect version of themselves in every aspect the game isn't realistic or a meaningful exercise IMO.

Love Mobley and Barnes' upside but to suggest their ceiling could "blow past" a top 15 player of all time is just going way too far for me. Especially for Barnes.