76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[dhsilv2]

You just sound jealous, extremely jealous.

Situations effect people in different ways. If he is having a true mental health issue that isn’t conducive to performing in from of millions of people then the contract allows for that.


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If he really has a "true mental health issue" then (of course depending on how the CBA is structured as I'm sure lawyers from both sides could argue things both ways) he should probably work with the team and be cooperative with them to get thru it. I'm sure Kevin Love and others who have had mental health issues were communicative and cooperated with their teams about the time they would miss.

Different people, different problems, different teams. I also don't think that we should ignore that the Sixers have a history of creating weird medical sagas with the players. I do not consider that a coincidence.

They drafted a LOT of players with medical histories...and it seems their management team has turned over a good bit. So unless you think ownership is the root cause, it seems their management staff has been in constant flux for some time. Since Hinkie it seems like they've more or less flipped everyone in the organization at the top, not sure if this does down to the medical staff or not.

[Nuntius]

There's no player on the Pacers they wouldn't deal straight up for Doncic

Sure.

so it would only be right if the entire team requested a trade out of Indy.

Again, I'm not saying that Simmons is right to request a trade. What I am saying is that the Sixers are willing to trade him. This isn't like the AD situation with NOLA where NOLA wasn't willing to trade AD but AD forced their hands. This isn't a star forcing his way out of the point. This is a situation where both sides want a trade. That's what I'm trying to say.

And as for my Pacers, yes, we don't have any player we consider untouchable either. We are open to trade everyone and the players know this.

[Nuntius]

Your definition of "holding out" is quite bizzarre, and shows quite a strong bias on your side.
They have every right to demand that things continue BAU until a trade of their likings becomes available.
And, if no trade comes, continue as it is today.
The only person not performing what he's contractly obliged to is Ben.
Hence "holding out".

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

You are free to disagree with my definition as well. Stalling a trade until something better becomes available (with absolutely zero guarantee of that something ever becoming available) is holding out to me.

[Nuntius]

If he really has a "true mental health issue" then (of course depending on how the CBA is structured as I'm sure lawyers from both sides could argue things both ways) he should probably work with the team and be cooperative with them to get thru it. I'm sure Kevin Love and others who have had mental health issues were communicative and cooperated with their teams about the time they would miss.

Different people, different problems, different teams. I also don't think that we should ignore that the Sixers have a history of creating weird medical sagas with the players. I do not consider that a coincidence.

They drafted a LOT of players with medical histories...and it seems their management team has turned over a good bit. So unless you think ownership is the root cause, it seems their management staff has been in constant flux for some time. Since Hinkie it seems like they've more or less flipped everyone in the organization at the top, not sure if this does down to the medical staff or not.

I do believe that ownership is the root cause. I've already said that in this thread.

[dhsilv2]

Different people, different problems, different teams. I also don't think that we should ignore that the Sixers have a history of creating weird medical sagas with the players. I do not consider that a coincidence.

They drafted a LOT of players with medical histories...and it seems their management team has turned over a good bit. So unless you think ownership is the root cause, it seems their management staff has been in constant flux for some time. Since Hinkie it seems like they've more or less flipped everyone in the organization at the top, not sure if this does down to the medical staff or not.

I do believe that ownership is the root cause. I've already said that in this thread.

Why do you think ownership is the cause of their medical staff issues specifically?

[Nuntius]

Doc doesn't really have a say nor did he make it clear.

I don't know, man. Saying that you aren't sure if you can win a title with one of your team's stars seems pretty definitive to me. Doc is out on Simmons and he has every right and reason to be.

They fielded offers this off season AFTER there was a request and based on the demands it was clear they ONLY wanted to move Simmons if it was an obvious win for them. That doesn't indicate a strong desire to move him whatsoever.

Right and Simmons only asked out after the Sixers had already included him in trade talks and then said that they don't believe they can win with him.

Again, why are we pretending that both sides want to move on? The hang-up here is that both sides want it to happen on their own terms.

WHERE THE F DID THE SIXERS SAY "THEY DON'T BELIEVE THEY CAN WIN WITH HIM"?

AARRGGHH!!! ;lkgshd;lkhsd;iovjas;ijhas;lijvfaslijczLKDvjcZDLKc!!!!!!!!



Doc was asked "do you think Ben Simmons is a championship level PG?" Did Doc say NO? HUH?

POST THE LINK where Doc Rivers or ANYONE representing the Sixers organization said "WE DON'T BELIEVE WE CAN WIN WITH BEN SIMMONS".

I'll wait.

I just listened to Doc's Game 7 postgame comments AGAIN. In his first answer relating to Ben, Doc said they "still believe in him, but we have a lot of work to do" - does THAT sound like "they don't believe they can win with him"? Huh?

And as far as the money quote, as to whether Ben can be the PG of a championship-level team, here is the EXACT quote:

"Yeah, David, I don't know that question - or the answer to that question right now"

So, after leading his comments by saying that he "still believed in him", Doc said he didn't know if Ben could be a championship level point guard...which 1) is not an unrealistic answer, given how Ben played in the series, and 2) is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same as "we don't believe we can win with Ben Simmons".

You are absolutely BRUTAL, bro. BRUTAL.

You know exactly about what I'm talking about. You even quoted those parts in your reply. To me, the message seems clear. They do not believe that they can win with Ben Simmons on their team and, in my opinion at least, they are absolutely correct. They cannot win with him so they need to trade him for someone who fits better alongside their true star, Embiid.

[dhsilv2]

I don't know, man. Saying that you aren't sure if you can win a title with one of your team's stars seems pretty definitive to me. Doc is out on Simmons and he has every right and reason to be.



Right and Simmons only asked out after the Sixers had already included him in trade talks and then said that they don't believe they can win with him.

Again, why are we pretending that both sides want to move on? The hang-up here is that both sides want it to happen on their own terms.

WHERE THE F DID THE SIXERS SAY "THEY DON'T BELIEVE THEY CAN WIN WITH HIM"?

AARRGGHH!!! ;lkgshd;lkhsd;iovjas;ijhas;lijvfaslijczLKDvjcZDLKc!!!!!!!!



Doc was asked "do you think Ben Simmons is a championship level PG?" Did Doc say NO? HUH?

POST THE LINK where Doc Rivers or ANYONE representing the Sixers organization said "WE DON'T BELIEVE WE CAN WIN WITH BEN SIMMONS".

I'll wait.

I just listened to Doc's Game 7 postgame comments AGAIN. In his first answer relating to Ben, Doc said they "still believe in him, but we have a lot of work to do" - does THAT sound like "they don't believe they can win with him"? Huh?

And as far as the money quote, as to whether Ben can be the PG of a championship-level team, here is the EXACT quote:

"Yeah, David, I don't know that question - or the answer to that question right now"

So, after leading his comments by saying that he "still believed in him", Doc said he didn't know if Ben could be a championship level point guard...which 1) is not an unrealistic answer, given how Ben played in the series, and 2) is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same as "we don't believe we can win with Ben Simmons".

You are absolutely BRUTAL, bro. BRUTAL.

You know exactly about what I'm talking about. You even quoted those parts in your reply. To me, the message seems clear. They do not believe that they can win with Ben Simmons on their team and, in my opinion at least, they are absolutely correct. They cannot win with him so they need to trade him for someone who fits better alongside their true star, Embiid.

That's REALLY hard to do and might take a few years to materialize if it ever does.

[Nuntius]

Doc doesn't really have a say nor did he make it clear.

I don't know, man. Saying that you aren't sure if you can win a title with one of your team's stars seems pretty definitive to me. Doc is out on Simmons and he has every right and reason to be.

They fielded offers this off season AFTER there was a request and based on the demands it was clear they ONLY wanted to move Simmons if it was an obvious win for them. That doesn't indicate a strong desire to move him whatsoever.

Right and Simmons only asked out after the Sixers had already included him in trade talks and then said that they don't believe they can win with him.

Again, why are we pretending that both sides want to move on? The hang-up here is that both sides want it to happen on their own terms.

The only trade talk was for Harden. That doesn't indicate ANYTHING about the team's view of Simmons. Doc was speaking after a game 7 in the playoffs. There's no reasonable case where words said in that context should be seen as in any way meaningful and again Doc's not the guy in charge of personnel. Coaches are a dime a dozen.

It indicates that they do not view them as untouchable. They don't view him as NOLA viewed AD, as Indy viewed PG, as SAS viewed Kawhi or as Philly views Embiid. And they are right to not view them as untouchable. He simply isn't that good to be considered untouchable.

The reason why I keep making that point is to counter the narrative that this is yet another situation where a star is trying to force his way out of a team that is desperately trying to keep him. It's simply not that kind of situation. Both sides desire a trade here.

[Nuntius]

They drafted a LOT of players with medical histories...and it seems their management team has turned over a good bit. So unless you think ownership is the root cause, it seems their management staff has been in constant flux for some time. Since Hinkie it seems like they've more or less flipped everyone in the organization at the top, not sure if this does down to the medical staff or not.

I do believe that ownership is the root cause. I've already said that in this thread.

Why do you think ownership is the cause of their medical staff issues specifically?

I think that the Sixers ownership is so afraid to take responsibility for any mistakes that the franchise has made that they're willing to use their medical team as a spin machine to shift the blame to their players.

[bebopdeluxe]

I don't know, man. Saying that you aren't sure if you can win a title with one of your team's stars seems pretty definitive to me. Doc is out on Simmons and he has every right and reason to be.



Right and Simmons only asked out after the Sixers had already included him in trade talks and then said that they don't believe they can win with him.

Again, why are we pretending that both sides want to move on? The hang-up here is that both sides want it to happen on their own terms.

WHERE THE F DID THE SIXERS SAY "THEY DON'T BELIEVE THEY CAN WIN WITH HIM"?

AARRGGHH!!! ;lkgshd;lkhsd;iovjas;ijhas;lijvfaslijczLKDvjcZDLKc!!!!!!!!



Doc was asked "do you think Ben Simmons is a championship level PG?" Did Doc say NO? HUH?

POST THE LINK where Doc Rivers or ANYONE representing the Sixers organization said "WE DON'T BELIEVE WE CAN WIN WITH BEN SIMMONS".

I'll wait.

I just listened to Doc's Game 7 postgame comments AGAIN. In his first answer relating to Ben, Doc said they "still believe in him, but we have a lot of work to do" - does THAT sound like "they don't believe they can win with him"? Huh?

And as far as the money quote, as to whether Ben can be the PG of a championship-level team, here is the EXACT quote:

"Yeah, David, I don't know that question - or the answer to that question right now"

So, after leading his comments by saying that he "still believed in him", Doc said he didn't know if Ben could be a championship level point guard...which 1) is not an unrealistic answer, given how Ben played in the series, and 2) is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same as "we don't believe we can win with Ben Simmons".

You are absolutely BRUTAL, bro. BRUTAL.

You know exactly about what I'm talking about. You even quoted those parts in your reply. To me, the message seems clear. They do not believe that they can win with Ben Simmons on their team and, in my opinion at least, they are absolutely correct. They cannot win with him so they need to trade him for someone who fits better alongside their true star, Embiid.

Does this response translate into, "yeah, bro, I TOTALLY distorted what Doc said to make my point."

If so, apology accepted.

[dhsilv2]

I don't know, man. Saying that you aren't sure if you can win a title with one of your team's stars seems pretty definitive to me. Doc is out on Simmons and he has every right and reason to be.



Right and Simmons only asked out after the Sixers had already included him in trade talks and then said that they don't believe they can win with him.

Again, why are we pretending that both sides want to move on? The hang-up here is that both sides want it to happen on their own terms.

The only trade talk was for Harden. That doesn't indicate ANYTHING about the team's view of Simmons. Doc was speaking after a game 7 in the playoffs. There's no reasonable case where words said in that context should be seen as in any way meaningful and again Doc's not the guy in charge of personnel. Coaches are a dime a dozen.

It indicates that they do not view them as untouchable. They don't view him as NOLA viewed AD, as Indy viewed PG, as SAS viewed Kawhi or as Philly views Embiid. And they are right to not view them as untouchable. He simply isn't that good to be considered untouchable.

The reason why I keep making that point is to counter the narrative that this is yet another situation where a star is trying to force his way out of a team that is desperately trying to keep him. It's simply not that kind of situation. Both sides desire a trade here.

They only desire a trade if they overwhelmingly WIN. Just like Nola would have traded AD for Lebron and Curry in a second, that just wasn't a realistic or possible trade. And of course PG was tradable, you think if they could have flipped him for Lebron they'd have given it a second thought? Of course not. Same with the spurs and Leonard.

[DusterBuster]

I do believe that ownership is the root cause. I've already said that in this thread.

Why do you think ownership is the cause of their medical staff issues specifically?

I think that the Sixers ownership is so afraid to take responsibility for any mistakes that the franchise has made that they're willing to use their medical team as a spin machine to shift the blame to their players.

[Nuntius]

WHERE THE F DID THE SIXERS SAY "THEY DON'T BELIEVE THEY CAN WIN WITH HIM"?

AARRGGHH!!! ;lkgshd;lkhsd;iovjas;ijhas;lijvfaslijczLKDvjcZDLKc!!!!!!!!



Doc was asked "do you think Ben Simmons is a championship level PG?" Did Doc say NO? HUH?

POST THE LINK where Doc Rivers or ANYONE representing the Sixers organization said "WE DON'T BELIEVE WE CAN WIN WITH BEN SIMMONS".

I'll wait.

I just listened to Doc's Game 7 postgame comments AGAIN. In his first answer relating to Ben, Doc said they "still believe in him, but we have a lot of work to do" - does THAT sound like "they don't believe they can win with him"? Huh?

And as far as the money quote, as to whether Ben can be the PG of a championship-level team, here is the EXACT quote:

"Yeah, David, I don't know that question - or the answer to that question right now"

So, after leading his comments by saying that he "still believed in him", Doc said he didn't know if Ben could be a championship level point guard...which 1) is not an unrealistic answer, given how Ben played in the series, and 2) is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same as "we don't believe we can win with Ben Simmons".

You are absolutely BRUTAL, bro. BRUTAL.

You know exactly about what I'm talking about. You even quoted those parts in your reply. To me, the message seems clear. They do not believe that they can win with Ben Simmons on their team and, in my opinion at least, they are absolutely correct. They cannot win with him so they need to trade him for someone who fits better alongside their true star, Embiid.

That's REALLY hard to do and might take a few years to materialize if it ever does.

I wouldn't say so. Embiid is a top 5 player (arguably top 3, depending on who you ask) and his all-around game allows him to fit with a number of players. Simmons was the cog that never fit.

[Nuntius]

WHERE THE F DID THE SIXERS SAY "THEY DON'T BELIEVE THEY CAN WIN WITH HIM"?

AARRGGHH!!! ;lkgshd;lkhsd;iovjas;ijhas;lijvfaslijczLKDvjcZDLKc!!!!!!!!



Doc was asked "do you think Ben Simmons is a championship level PG?" Did Doc say NO? HUH?

POST THE LINK where Doc Rivers or ANYONE representing the Sixers organization said "WE DON'T BELIEVE WE CAN WIN WITH BEN SIMMONS".

I'll wait.

I just listened to Doc's Game 7 postgame comments AGAIN. In his first answer relating to Ben, Doc said they "still believe in him, but we have a lot of work to do" - does THAT sound like "they don't believe they can win with him"? Huh?

And as far as the money quote, as to whether Ben can be the PG of a championship-level team, here is the EXACT quote:

"Yeah, David, I don't know that question - or the answer to that question right now"

So, after leading his comments by saying that he "still believed in him", Doc said he didn't know if Ben could be a championship level point guard...which 1) is not an unrealistic answer, given how Ben played in the series, and 2) is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same as "we don't believe we can win with Ben Simmons".

You are absolutely BRUTAL, bro. BRUTAL.

You know exactly about what I'm talking about. You even quoted those parts in your reply. To me, the message seems clear. They do not believe that they can win with Ben Simmons on their team and, in my opinion at least, they are absolutely correct. They cannot win with him so they need to trade him for someone who fits better alongside their true star, Embiid.

Does this response translate into, "yeah, bro, I TOTALLY distorted what Doc said to make my point."

If so, apology accepted.

You are free to disagree with my interpretation

[dhsilv2]

You know exactly about what I'm talking about. You even quoted those parts in your reply. To me, the message seems clear. They do not believe that they can win with Ben Simmons on their team and, in my opinion at least, they are absolutely correct. They cannot win with him so they need to trade him for someone who fits better alongside their true star, Embiid.

That's REALLY hard to do and might take a few years to materialize if it ever does.

I wouldn't say so. Embiid is a top 5 player (arguably top 3, depending on who you ask) and his all-around game allows him to fit with a number of players. Simmons was the cog that never fit.

They still need to get offered a singular player who's good enough to add to this team or a package they can move for such a player. Harris being REALLY hard to move means said player has to also fit in with Harris. They don't have any cap flexibility either here as they're over the cap by MORE than Ben's salary already.

[DTP]

I just want to say I think it's absolutely disgusting the mental health crap that Paul is trying to pull....absolutely disgusting.

If it is fraudulent, absolutely. But there are enough reasons (the situation with his family back home, the well-known issues he has with handling pressure and adapting, his play after his family situation unfolded plus the ensuing comments et cetera) for one to assume that there is something there.

And if that's the case, Rich Paul should be doing all he can to take care of his client....not adding more stress to his head by having him go through this mess publically. The 76ers aren't trying to force him to work.....the 76ers are simply saying they aren't paying him until he shows up for work. In what world should an employer have to pay an employee that doesn't come to work?

Everyone saying that his mental notes and status isn't any of the 76ers business....fine, don't share it. But also don't expect a paycheck. Pretty simple to me.

[DTP]

Truly bizarre that people are completely dismissing his mental health struggles as there’s lots of evidence to the contrary

His own sister is going through things and his family would have to condone his behaviour as they’re very close

If true, this is next level Machiavellian stuff

Not buying it

Something more is happening

I'm going to say this as respectfully as I can- that's not the 76ers' problem. Once again, they aren't forcing him to work....they are just not paying him to not work. Ben is a multi-millionaire...if the mental struggles are so bad right now that he can't perform his job, take the year off and get better. A company shouldn't have to pay him millions of dollars for it though.

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

There's no player on the Pacers they wouldn't deal straight up for Doncic

Sure.

so it would only be right if the entire team requested a trade out of Indy.

Again, I'm not saying that Simmons is right to request a trade. What I am saying is that the Sixers are willing to trade him. This isn't like the AD situation with NOLA where NOLA wasn't willing to trade AD but AD forced their hands. This isn't a star forcing his way out of the point. This is a situation where both sides want a trade. That's what I'm trying to say.

And as for my Pacers, yes, we don't have any player we consider untouchable either. We are open to trade everyone and the players know this.

So basically you're saying the only reason the Pacers don't trade all their players is because none have requested it, and if 1 or more requested it, you'd suggest immediately trading them, since it's already established there are players that exist which the Pacers would trade at least one of their players for.

[Nuntius]

The only trade talk was for Harden. That doesn't indicate ANYTHING about the team's view of Simmons. Doc was speaking after a game 7 in the playoffs. There's no reasonable case where words said in that context should be seen as in any way meaningful and again Doc's not the guy in charge of personnel. Coaches are a dime a dozen.

It indicates that they do not view them as untouchable. They don't view him as NOLA viewed AD, as Indy viewed PG, as SAS viewed Kawhi or as Philly views Embiid. And they are right to not view them as untouchable. He simply isn't that good to be considered untouchable.

The reason why I keep making that point is to counter the narrative that this is yet another situation where a star is trying to force his way out of a team that is desperately trying to keep him. It's simply not that kind of situation. Both sides desire a trade here.

They only desire a trade if they overwhelmingly WIN. Just like Nola would have traded AD for Lebron and Curry in a second, that just wasn't a realistic or possible trade. And of course PG was tradable, you think if they could have flipped him for Lebron they'd have given it a second thought? Of course not. Same with the spurs and Leonard.

Sure, every team would trade any player if they overhwelmingly won the trade. Everyone would trade their star for a LeBron, a KD or a Doncic. That's a given.

That said, I do not believe that the situations in question are analogous. And they're not analogous, simply because Simmons isn't as good as an AD, a PG or a Kawhi. He isn't at that level. Demanding superstar returns for a player that is, at best, a star with some major holes in his game doesn't make much sense to me.

[dhsilv2]

It indicates that they do not view them as untouchable. They don't view him as NOLA viewed AD, as Indy viewed PG, as SAS viewed Kawhi or as Philly views Embiid. And they are right to not view them as untouchable. He simply isn't that good to be considered untouchable.

The reason why I keep making that point is to counter the narrative that this is yet another situation where a star is trying to force his way out of a team that is desperately trying to keep him. It's simply not that kind of situation. Both sides desire a trade here.

They only desire a trade if they overwhelmingly WIN. Just like Nola would have traded AD for Lebron and Curry in a second, that just wasn't a realistic or possible trade. And of course PG was tradable, you think if they could have flipped him for Lebron they'd have given it a second thought? Of course not. Same with the spurs and Leonard.

Sure, every team would trade any player if they overhwelmingly won the trade. Everyone would trade their star for a LeBron, a KD or a Doncic. That's a given.

That said, I do not believe that the situations in question are analogous. And they're not analogous, simply because Simmons isn't as good as an AD, a PG or a Kawhi. He isn't at that level. Demanding superstar returns for a player that is, at best, a star with some major holes in his game doesn't make much sense to me.

And yet the 76ers are doing JUST that. Thus your attempt to make it sound like philly is looking to move on from Simmons doesn't hold water. The 76ers looked to move Simmons for James Harden. That's the kind of player they'd move him for, an overwhelming win.