2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3)

[Vampirate]

Toronto is 19th and Orlando is 20th in rebounding. Orlando's bench is the main reason why they don't rebound. Plus Franz is more of a guard than Barnes. I just can't see Barnes chasing guards around all game like Franz can.

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Thing is Franz is still 6"10, if he's going to enter the top 2 he needs to improve his rebounding. It really adds to their game.

If you are not unbiased, what are Wagners flaws that he really needs to work on the off season, his Achilles heal if you will.

At the moment, from what i've seen from the stats is aside from really needing to improve his rebounding, Franz takes 34.7% of his shots from 3-10 feet, a shot he's clearly not good at shooting at 39.6%.

His best weapon thus far is his 3 point shooting as he's shooting at a 39% clip.


Regardless I still have Barnes ahead because I think he's the better overall offensive player (scoring, midrange, playmaking and offensive rebounding), but not 3 point and free throw shooting.

Scottie Barnes biggest flaw is still his 3 point shot. He also can get better defensively and better from 10-16 feet (39.5% there).

39.6% from 3-10' isn't bad, it's better than Giannis and a little less than Middleton. I don't think Franz has to raise his rebounds to enter the top 2 at all.

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If 39.6% is bad imo, you'd need to be closer to 50% from midrange for you to call it a strength. For example, i'm not calling Barnes shooting from 10-16 feet good at 39.5%. Shooting 39.5% on your 2s is never good.

Also, you still haven't answered my question, what are Franz biggest weaknesses?

[basketballRob]

Thing is Franz is still 6"10, if he's going to enter the top 2 he needs to improve his rebounding. It really adds to their game.

If you are not unbiased, what are Wagners flaws that he really needs to work on the off season, his Achilles heal if you will.

At the moment, from what i've seen from the stats is aside from really needing to improve his rebounding, Franz takes 34.7% of his shots from 3-10 feet, a shot he's clearly not good at shooting at 39.6%.

His best weapon thus far is his 3 point shooting as he's shooting at a 39% clip.


Regardless I still have Barnes ahead because I think he's the better overall offensive player (scoring, midrange, playmaking and offensive rebounding), but not 3 point and free throw shooting.

Scottie Barnes biggest flaw is still his 3 point shot. He also can get better defensively and better from 10-16 feet (39.5% there).

39.6% from 3-10' isn't bad, it's better than Giannis and a little less than Middleton. I don't think Franz has to raise his rebounds to enter the top 2 at all.

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If 39.6% is bad imo, you'd need to be closer to 50% from midrange for you to call it a strength. For example, i'm not calling Barnes shooting from 10-16 feet good at 39.5%. Shooting 39.5% on your 2s is never good.

Also, you still haven't answered my question, what are Franz's biggest weaknesses?

Another point is you were lumping the Wagners together but they don't play alike. Moe is a little stiff, Franz is very smooth and fluid. Franz could play SG.

I guess you could say rebounding is Franz's biggest weakness but he's more of a perimeter player than Mobley or Barnes.

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[Vampirate]

39.6% from 3-10' isn't bad, it's better than Giannis and a little less than Middleton. I don't think Franz has to raise his rebounds to enter the top 2 at all.

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If 39.6% is bad imo, you'd need to be closer to 50% from midrange for you to call it a strength. For example, i'm not calling Barnes shooting from 10-16 feet good at 39.5%. Shooting 39.5% on your 2s is never good.

Also, you still haven't answered my question, what are Franz's biggest weaknesses?

Another point is you were lumping the Wagners together but they don't play alike. Moe is a little stiff, Franz is very smooth and fluid. Franz could play SG.

I guess you could say rebounding is Franz's biggest weakness but he's more of a perimeter player than Mobley or Barnes.
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When I talk about Wagner it's always going to be Franz, Moe was never in the convo.

What do you want Franz to work on in the off season to improve upon in terms of skills?

[basketballRob]

If 39.6% is bad imo, you'd need to be closer to 50% from midrange for you to call it a strength. For example, i'm not calling Barnes shooting from 10-16 feet good at 39.5%. Shooting 39.5% on your 2s is never good.

Also, you still haven't answered my question, what are Franz's biggest weaknesses?

Another point is you were lumping the Wagners together but they don't play alike. Moe is a little stiff, Franz is very smooth and fluid. Franz could play SG.

I guess you could say rebounding is Franz's biggest weakness but he's more of a perimeter player than Mobley or Barnes.
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When I talk about Wagner it's always going to be Franz, Moe was never in the convo.

What do you want Franz to work on in the off season to improve upon in terms of skills?

I think if he keeps working on his shooting that he could be a consistent 40% 3 pt shooter.

What about Barnes?

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[Vampirate]

Another point is you were lumping the Wagners together but they don't play alike. Moe is a little stiff, Franz is very smooth and fluid. Franz could play SG.

I guess you could say rebounding is Franz's biggest weakness but he's more of a perimeter player than Mobley or Barnes.
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When I talk about Wagner it's always going to be Franz, Moe was never in the convo.

What do you want Franz to work on in the off season to improve upon in terms of skills?

I think if he keeps working on his shooting that he could be a consistent 40% 3 pt shooter.

What about Barnes?

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If Barnes works on his game next season he can maybe be regarded as one of the better overall defenders and one of the better mid range shooters.

Another thing to work on is his playmaking.

I don't think Barnes will ever get to great to elite status in his 3 point shooting or free throw shooting, but I think he'll be at least respectable there.

I think for Franz the upside to him is an improved MPJ (not so much scoring but better defensively and a better passer/playmaker).

[Bruin]

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[MotownMadness]

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Mobley and Barnes are both heavy favorites according too that.

Still alot of season left but I'm thinking Mobley has it this year.

[MotownMadness]

When I talk about Wagner it's always going to be Franz, Moe was never in the convo.

What do you want Franz to work on in the off season to improve upon in terms of skills?

I think if he keeps working on his shooting that he could be a consistent 40% 3 pt shooter.

What about Barnes?

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If Barnes works on his game next season he can maybe be regarded as one of the better overall defenders and one of the better mid range shooters.

Another thing to work on is his playmaking.

I don't think Barnes will ever get to great to elite status in his 3 point shooting or free throw shooting, but I think he'll be at least respectable there.

I think for Franz the upside to him is an improved MPJ (not so much scoring but better defensively and a better passer/playmaker).

Man, I really missed on Barnes. I thought he would be a sloppy offensive player with great defense that was a project.

What's your comp ceiling for him at this point?

[BugginOut]

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Huge game from Grimes in his first game as a starter

Set a Knicks rookie record for most points by a rookie starter in a debut and also set a Knicks record for most 3s made in a game by a rookie.

[MrBigShot]

An efficient 26/8/5 night for Cade, but kinda overshadowed by KD dropping 51 on us

[aad]

Cade with another 20 plus game

[Liqourish]

An efficient 26/8/5 night for Cade, but kinda overshadowed by KD dropping 51 on us

3 stls and 1 blk as well. 2 of his 7 tos should have belonged to teammates. It is what it is though. It's the area he needs to address the most. But doesn't help when it piles on.

[CptCrunch]

Cade's scoring is on a huge upswing. Turnover is still a huge issue.

A game with 7 turnover is not efficient. A single turnover basically results in a net ~2.12 pt swing on average (~1.06 point on offense based on league average 106 offensive efficiency, 1.06 the other way on average). It is the single most costly mistake in basketball.

My official position is still that Cade is not a point forward, just a scoring shooting guard. Same positions since pre-draft.

[MotownMadness]

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[vege]

Cade's scoring is on a huge upswing. Turnover is still a huge issue.

A game with 7 turnover is not efficient. A single turnover basically results in a net ~2.12 pt swing on average (~1.06 point on offense based on league average 106 offensive efficiency, 1.06 the other way on average). It is the single most costly mistake in basketball.

My official position is still that Cade is not a point forward, just a scoring shooting guard. Same positions since pre-draft.

I am not saying TOs are not an issue with Cade, make no mistake they are, and he need to improve there, but a LOT of his TOs are not his fault, I'd say 1/3 or close to half of his TOs are on his teammates and not on him.

[CptCrunch]

Cade's scoring is on a huge upswing. Turnover is still a huge issue.

A game with 7 turnover is not efficient. A single turnover basically results in a net ~2.12 pt swing on average (~1.06 point on offense based on league average 106 offensive efficiency, 1.06 the other way on average). It is the single most costly mistake in basketball.

My official position is still that Cade is not a point forward, just a scoring shooting guard. Same positions since pre-draft.

I am not saying TOs are not an issue with Cade, make no mistake they are, and he need to improve there, but a LOT of his TOs are not his fault, I'd say 1/3 or close to half of his TOs are on his teammates and not on him.

When he can the blame stop? This was the exact same argument in college. The only commonality in both situation is Cade himself.

There are tier two scenarios, 1) Cade is the unluckiest player in the world with teammates who can't catch passes in college and now in the league OR 2) Cade has bad passing judgement and/or poor ball placement when passing.

Also Killian Hayes can achieve 2.3 assist to turnover with the same teammate.

[LoveMyRaps]

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Superstar in the making.

[zeebneeb]

Cade's scoring is on a huge upswing. Turnover is still a huge issue.

A game with 7 turnover is not efficient. A single turnover basically results in a net ~2.12 pt swing on average (~1.06 point on offense based on league average 106 offensive efficiency, 1.06 the other way on average). It is the single most costly mistake in basketball.

My official position is still that Cade is not a point forward, just a scoring shooting guard. Same positions since pre-draft.

I am not saying TOs are not an issue with Cade, make no mistake they are, and he need to improve there, but a LOT of his TOs are not his fault, I'd say 1/3 or close to half of his TOs are on his teammates and not on him.

When he can the blame stop? This was the exact same argument in college. The only commonality in both situation is Cade himself.

There are tier two scenarios, 1) Cade is the unluckiest player in the world with teammates who can't catch passes in college and now in the league OR 2) Cade has bad passing judgement and/or poor ball placement when passing.

Also Killian Hayes can achieve 2.3 assist to turnover with the same teammate.

Hold on, have you watched this Pistons team?

He turns the ball over, but as someone else said, a rather sizable portion if those turnovers are absolutely not on Cade.

This years Pistons team is one of the worst teams in the past 5 years, easily.

[The Moose]

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[HardenGoat]

I’m picking Mobley but what Sengun is doing with the limited minutes he has gotten is incredible. He’s like a cross between Jokic and Luis Scola. Huge upside.