Nikola Jokic wins MVP(again)

[Raps in 4]

Okay then what is it then? If Jokic didn’t win MVP purely based on having the best stats then what was it then? Go on social media all they talk about was how his stats were so amazing.

He had the best counting stats.

He had the best advanced stats.

He had the most wins.

He did that with a worse supporting cast than any other MVP candidate.

There is literally nothing left for him to beat Embiid in.

And my point remains that having the best stats were never the sole criteria for MVP otherwise Kobe should’ve won it over Dirk in 07.

What criteria is left?

If your only criteria is team wins, then the only candidates for the award would have been Booker, CP3, and maybe Ja as all the other teams were within a few games of one another.

[bearadonisdna]

its subjective but embiid without simmons or harden, the 76ers were still relegated as the better team generally. still a contender.
The jokic led nugs never get that consideration because jokic is the toothless lion.

[NetsJets]

Do I need to explain to you that in order to have an impact on the result of a basketball game, you need to be on the court for said game?

Objective stats (literally dozens of them) quantify Jokic’s superior impact. Nobody had any gripes about these stats until Jokic completely dominated them to a point we have never seen before (and likely will never see again).

Embiid was out on covid protocols. But again my point continues to be that having the best stats were never the sole criteria for MVP until this year. By that logic Shaq should’ve won it over Nash in 2005.

Still isn't but you're willfully ignorant or just joined the debate.

What other reasons were there? He had the best stats so they voted for him. What am I “wrong” about?

[NetsJets]

I don’t know where you, Nick Wright, and all the other Embiid stans who keep saying this are getting it from. This narrative that a bunch of votes went to Jokic solely because of one or two advanced stats is nonsense. There isn’t a single credible media member or voter framing their MVP argument like this.

Anyone saying this clearly hasn’t made even the slightest effort to actually understand why so many people have Jokic as their rightful MVP, and probably didn’t even watch him play.

Okay then what is it then? If Jokic didn’t win MVP purely based on having the best stats then what was it then? Go on social media all they talk about was how his stats were so amazing.

My guy it has been repeated multiple times in this thread for you, and you don’t want to accept it.

“By all objective measures, Jokic was superior to Embiid in the regular season”. Subjective measures, some say Jokic some say Embiid.

Regular stats, advanced stats, wins all point to Jokic. Unless you are crediting Embiid with wins he was on the bench for, or you’re considering playoff success in a regular season award, there is no argument for Embiid over Jokic.

Hell you would be hard pressed to make an argument for Embiid over Giannis besides voter fatigue.

Huh? I literally said that Jokic won because he had the best stats? Are you arguing for the sake of arguing? My only thing is that be awarding a player for simply having the best stats when historically that was hardly the case sets a precedent and I want that energy to be kept going forward. What are you trying to argue?

[NetsJets]

He had the best counting stats.

He had the best advanced stats.

He had the most wins.

He did that with a worse supporting cast than any other MVP candidate.

There is literally nothing left for him to beat Embiid in.

And my point remains that having the best stats were never the sole criteria for MVP otherwise Kobe should’ve won it over Dirk in 07.

What criteria is left?

If your only criteria is team wins, then the only candidates for the award would have been Booker, CP3, and maybe Ja as all the other teams were within a few games of one another.

Wins has been the unwritten rule for years. Look at most MVP’s they tend to be a top 4 team record wise. There were outliers like Jokic this year and Westbrook in 17, but they’ve been consistent with that.

[bearadonisdna]

jokic ball is good for jokic.
nobody developed, couldnt even get 15 ppg from Barton

[Cubbies2120]

And my point remains that having the best stats were never the sole criteria for MVP otherwise Kobe should’ve won it over Dirk in 07.

What criteria is left?

If your only criteria is team wins, then the only candidates for the award would have been Booker, CP3, and maybe Ja as all the other teams were within a few games of one another.

Wins has been the unwritten rule for years. Look at most MVP’s they tend to be a top 4 team record wise. There were outliers like Jokic this year and Westbrook in 17, but they’ve been consistent with that.

Ability to be on the court has been the unwritten rule for years. Look at most MVPs they tend to miss 10 or less of their games. There were outliers like AI in 2001 and Walton back in 1978, but they’ve been consistent with that.

[AleksandarN]

If you are going to vote on a league MVP it should include the playoffs.

Jokic is sitting at home.

It should be a factor.

Like the NFL, MLB and the NHL. oh wait

[AleksandarN]

Can we at least name it properly?

The NBA Regular Season League MVP?

Agreed like

The NFL Regular Season League MVP
The MLB Regular Season League MVP
The NHL Regular Season League MVP

[NetsJets]

What criteria is left?

If your only criteria is team wins, then the only candidates for the award would have been Booker, CP3, and maybe Ja as all the other teams were within a few games of one another.

Wins has been the unwritten rule for years. Look at most MVP’s they tend to be a top 4 team record wise. There were outliers like Jokic this year and Westbrook in 17, but they’ve been consistent with that.

Ability to be on the court has been the unwritten rule for years. Look at most MVPs they tend to miss 10 or less of their games. There were outliers like AI in 2001 and Walton back in 1978, but they’ve been consistent with that.

Again most of that was covid protocols.

[AleksandarN]

The problem isn't only that he lost two years in a row in the 1st round.

He won only 1 game. And he didn't have any historically good game, where you could say he did everthing he could but lost because of his teammates.

That's pretty bad for a guy who is supposed to be clearly the best player in the game.

The problem is that he didn't. I swear do facts even matter to some people?

[Sgt Major]

jokic ball is good for jokic.
nobody developed, couldnt even get 15 ppg from Barton

Tell me you're not watching the Nuggets without telling me you're not watching the Nuggets.

[AleksandarN]

The MVP has never been a “best stat” award or else Kobe should’ve won it over Nash in 06. Stat is the only argument Jokic has and this essentially sets a precedent and I hope the same energy is kept going forward….

Stat is the only argument he has?

Jokic played in more wins than Embiid or Giannis lol.

"The only argument Jokic has is he rates better in objective measures of performance that nobody minded until Jokic exploded them".

All I’ve heard was that he had the best RAPTOR and PER etc. Therefore he should be the MVP, the argument for Jokic is solely based on stats.

Jokic played in more wins basically means he played more games than Embiid and Giannis? How does that make him more worthy?

Because he contributed to more team wins. lol

[PennSports]

I think it comes down to this

1.) It was very impressive to lead that team to the playoffs
2.) Setting your team up for success in the postseason is the whole point of the regular season

Both angles should be taken into account and i dont think they were. Was the value in carrying a team that isnt good enough to win anything more valuable than what Giannis and Embiid provided? People go crazy when you ask this, it isnt Jokic's fault that guys got hurt just like it wasnt embiids fault for ben just not showing up. Sometimes things just don't work out, you need a lot of things to go right to win major awards or to win a championship and some of that is luck. Just feels they decided to completely discount that and focused way too much on what the team wasn't rather than what the team was.

[AleksandarN]

Zach Lowe is a god amongst NBA media, and podcasters. There is a tweet from a media member stating that many members who didn't have votes just used Zach Lowe's ballots for their own votes.

This is exactly why media should not be able to vote on this. Too many people have a vote and they have no clue about what they're talking about.

I mean, that kind of reputation, you have to earn it tho. Even if he is influential, doesnt necessary mean, that what he stands for must be wrong.
Also tell me, who else should vote on the MVP?

Former players...

Could do the top 75.

It does not sit right with me that AllNBA selection and MVP is contract incentivised.

The media should not be able to dictate what you get paid.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Kareem won the MVP where he didn't even make the playoffs. Guess who voted that year? I will give you a hint it wasn't the media.

[eyeatoma]

I mean, that kind of reputation, you have to earn it tho. Even if he is influential, doesnt necessary mean, that what he stands for must be wrong.
Also tell me, who else should vote on the MVP?

Former players...

Could do the top 75.

It does not sit right with me that AllNBA selection and MVP is contract incentivised.

The media should not be able to dictate what you get paid.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Kareem won the MVP where he didn't even make the playoffs. Guess who voted that year? I will give you a hint it wasn't the media.

Did he win it twice in a row? I don't think so.

[bearadonisdna]

jokic ball is good for jokic.
nobody developed, couldnt even get 15 ppg from Barton

Tell me you're not watching the Nuggets without telling me you're not watching the Nuggets.

what are you talking about. seen plenty of nuggets and follwed their players on a game 2 game basis.

Aaron gordon as your defacto defensive stopper? sound familiar?
Look i didnt imput much throughout the season because i didnt have a horse i the race,just said my opinion and kept it moving
but this celebration and reversion to meaningless stats to justify the most paper tiger mvp in recent is kinda annoying.
He already earned his mvp for his RS exploits but round 2 we all knew how it was gonna end. There are other players in the league that deserve rcognition and it feels like a entitlement for a re run that most bought hook line and sinker.

[AleksandarN]

Former players...

Could do the top 75.

It does not sit right with me that AllNBA selection and MVP is contract incentivised.

The media should not be able to dictate what you get paid.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Kareem won the MVP where he didn't even make the playoffs. Guess who voted that year? I will give you a hint it wasn't the media.

Did he win it twice in a row? I don't think so.

Oh now you are changing the goal posts again. I am refuting the point you are making. Btw Moses won an MVP with a similar record as Jokic. Who was voting back then? It wasn't the media.

[eyeatoma]

Kareem won the MVP where he didn't even make the playoffs. Guess who voted that year? I will give you a hint it wasn't the media.

Did he win it twice in a row? I don't think so.

Oh now you are changing the goal posts again. I am refuting the point you are making. Btw Moses won an MVP with a similar record than Jokic who was voting back then? It wasn't the media.

You not understanding my argument, is not me changing the goal posts lol. I always said, the issue was Jokic winning the MVP a second year in a row with an average record barely making the playoffs. Although I think Embiid deserved the MVP last year, I made my peace with him missing too many games.

One off anomaly MVP's aren't my issue. It's rewarding a player with an MVP when their second MVP is a worse seeding than their first year (back to back, not another MVP after a few years),when there was another player who was just as deserving, and had never won one.

You've also brought up the Moses argument before and I responded to that, check a few weeks ago to see what we said.

[tmorgan]

You really want former players voting for current league awards? Do you even realize how out of touch most retired players are? Even the ones getting paid to comment (*cough* Shaq and Barkley) are ridiculously inaccurate with so many of their takes.

There is no best answer here, but in a season with no clearly dominant team featuring a clearly dominant player, it comes down to numbers put up, games played, and context. Embiid had a strong case, too, as did Giannis.