Eurobasket 2022 (daily OP updates), day 11, all quarter finals teams known, Italy shocks Europe, eliminates Serbia

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Who will win 2022 Eurobasket?

Serbia
62
21%
France
41
14%
Spain
10
3%
Lithuania
12
4%
Greece
53
18%
Slovenia
74
25%
Croatia
5
2%
Turkey
12
4%
Montenegro
1
0%
other
25
8%
 
Total votes: 295

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Re: Eurobasket 2022 Starts SEPTEMBER 1st 

Post#841 » by spanish-celtic » Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:49 am

wco81 wrote:If the players are talented enough, the teams will hire translators. Probably also help bring over family so the player isn't on his own in a strange country.

MLB has been doing it for decades with Latin players who only spoke English and more recently with Asian players who only speak Japanese or Korean.

A coach has to communicate to his players, most of whom only speak English.


Here in Europe every single team has players from different countries and the common language is English, don't think that Spanish teams speak Spanish, that's not the case anymore. Long time ago there were only two foreign players in every team (most of them American) and the "official" language would be Spanish, Italian or whatever and an assistant coach would translate instructions for these foreign players, but right now you have to deal with players for 6-7 different nationalities so every coach relies on English.

The main barrier here is that head-coach is a way different role in Europe and NBA, coaches in Europe are way more into X's and O's while coaches in NBA have an army of assistant coaches to deal with X's and O's so they must focus on "personalities management", they need soft skills to lead their teams while in Europe the approach is more like "I'm the law and that's what we're gonna do". I'm not saying NBA coaches have no clue about X's and O's nor European coaches can't deal with difficult players, but they are more like NCAA coaches and we all know how the NCAA-NBA transition went for most of them. If an European coach wants to make it to the NBA as head-coach there's addtional work to make as the role is quite different.

Finally, unpopular opinion, until the players get comfortable with the amount of black head coaches in NBA these doors will probably be closed, I think the players would be pissed if the find more foreing coaches than black coaches (most of them ex-players).
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 Starts SEPTEMBER 1st 

Post#842 » by Swuul » Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:51 am

Pachinko_ wrote:I think Europe has a lot to learn from the US in terms of how great this game really is and how much love and popularity it deserves. And the US has something to learn from Europe in terms of developing even the smallest talent properly.

No doubt, the highschool program for basketball is where USA gets ahead developing young players.

These days there are more basketball players in Europe than in USA (but less than all of America combined), but they both are dwarfed by number of players in Asia (they say there are 300 million players in China alone, but I might not quite believe that).

Then there is the money aspect, of course. There simply isn't as much money available for Basketball in Europe, because Football (soccer) gets the lions share (NBA revenues are dwarfed by English Premier League alone). Then there is the crucial issue of Eurolegue and FIBA poop-up, it doesn't help European basketball there are essentially two competing brands fighting for the money and popularity (FIBA refuses to schedule matches so that it would fit Euroleague schedule, Euroleague refuses to release their players to FIBA matches except when Euroleague is on pause).
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 Starts SEPTEMBER 1st 

Post#843 » by wco81 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:51 am

spanish-celtic wrote:
wco81 wrote:If the players are talented enough, the teams will hire translators. Probably also help bring over family so the player isn't on his own in a strange country.

MLB has been doing it for decades with Latin players who only spoke English and more recently with Asian players who only speak Japanese or Korean.

A coach has to communicate to his players, most of whom only speak English.


Here in Europe every single team has players from different countries and the common language is English, don't think that Spanish teams speak Spanish, that's not the case anymore. Long time ago there were only two foreign players in every team (most of them American) and the "official" language would be Spanish, Italian or whatever and an assistant coach would translate instructions for these foreign players, but right now you have to deal with players for 6-7 different nationalities so every coach relies on English.

The main barrier here is that head-coach is a way different role in Europe and NBA, coaches in Europe are way more into X's and O's while coaches in NBA have an army of assistant coaches to deal with X's and O's so they must focus on "personalities management", they need soft skills to lead their teams while in Europe the approach is more like "I'm the law and that's what we're gonna do". I'm not saying NBA coaches have no clue about X's and O's nor European coaches can't deal with difficult players, but they are more like NCAA coaches and we all know how the NCAA-NBA transition went for most of them. If an European coach wants to make it to the NBA as head-coach there's addtional work to make as the role is quite different.

Finally, unpopular opinion, until the players get comfortable with the amount of black head coaches in NBA these doors will probably be closed, I think the players would be pissed if the find more foreing coaches than black coaches (most of them ex-players).


Head coaches do delegate the tactical to assistants, to give them more to do.

But come playoff time where they're making real-time tactical changes, the best head coaches are involved, going through videos and such.

It's the NFL where there's more permanent delegation and you can more likely find figurehead HCs. Sure there are exceptions but the coordinators have a lot of responsibility.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 Starts SEPTEMBER 1st 

Post#844 » by mcmurphy » Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:24 pm

Pachinko_ wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:In fairness to your argument, the top player doesn't have to communicate as much with the team, FO, staff etc as the coach does. It is a different job. While I understand the bias is not awesome and it surely isn't a easy comparison but there is a few reasons, some of it being old boys club for sure, that the coaching pool is taken from the ones knowing the NBA game. It is more top to bottom, from players, media, staff, agents etc... It isn't about who the best X/O's while that is important and has to be top notch it is a bigger package. Harder to break into that old boys club for various reasons but I personally would like to see more FIBA influence in the NBA for sure. Problem is every NBA team is worth billions, and they want businessmen first and foremost.

I get what you're saying, but keep in mind all that has been happening just fine for decades now in European football, with clubs and superstars that are bigger and more important than James Harden. People jump from Russian to English to Italian leagues all the time, and the differences between them are chalk and cheese.

Don't buy it that NBA is something too special to deal with and you need a horse whisperer to get anywhere near an American superstar. That's all excuses. And even if it wasn't excuses, you can always start from a team where the superstar is a European guy who's English is crap anyway and is used to be coached. Jokic, Giannis, Doncic.


Zeljko coach KD, Simmons and Kyrie?


:lol: :lol:
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 Starts SEPTEMBER 1st 

Post#845 » by Mamba81p » Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:11 pm

Swuul wrote:Then there is the money aspect, of course. There simply isn't as much money available for Basketball in Europe, because Football (soccer) gets the lions share (NBA revenues are dwarfed by English Premier League alone). Then there is the crucial issue of Eurolegue and FIBA poop-up, it doesn't help European basketball there are essentially two competing brands fighting for the money and popularity (FIBA refuses to schedule matches so that it would fit Euroleague schedule, Euroleague refuses to release their players to FIBA matches except when Euroleague is on pause).


No they are not

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue
NBA in 2019 was making more money than EPL in 2022. The difference is even bigger now, and it will get bigger after the TV deal. EPL peaked 5 years ago when it comes to TV money.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 Starts SEPTEMBER 1st 

Post#846 » by Luke Skyowner » Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:59 am

spanish-celtic wrote:
The main barrier here is that head-coach is a way different role in Europe and NBA, coaches in Europe are way more into X's and O's while coaches in NBA have an army of assistant coaches to deal with X's and O's so they must focus on "personalities management", they need soft skills to lead their teams while in Europe the approach is more like "I'm the law and that's what we're gonna do".


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Re: Eurobasket 2022 Starts SEPTEMBER 1st 

Post#847 » by UcanUwill » Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:27 pm

Lithuanian photoshoot. DO you have anyone elses, always cool to look at those photos.

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Re: Eurobasket 2022 Starts SEPTEMBER 1st 

Post#848 » by GeorgeSears » Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:44 pm

Pachinko_ wrote:Luka looks fat again


That's because he doesn't do any SnC in the offseason. He thinks playing scrimmage and in basketball tournaments is the way to do it. It's not. In reality, it's just going to wear him out. Forcing him to rest longer and gain more weight. Elite athletes improve through SnC. He still hasn't learned that.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 Starts SEPTEMBER 1st 

Post#849 » by Sgt Major » Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:59 pm

GeorgeSears wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:Luka looks fat again


SnC


What's this?
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Re: Eurobasket 2022, SEP 1st. games : ESP v BUL ; BiH v HUN ; TUR v MNE ; SLO v LTU ; BEL v GEO ; FRA v GER 

Post#850 » by a-French-Fan » Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:45 pm

In my opinion 7 teams are able to win: Slovenia, France, Serbia, Lithuania, Greece, Spain and ... Germany.
4 are in the group B. One part of the bracket may be easier to reach semi-finals ...
And in group B, Bosnia defeated France few days ago...
So let's see!
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 Starts SEPTEMBER 1st 

Post#851 » by lambchop » Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:58 pm

Sgt Major wrote:
GeorgeSears wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:Luka looks fat again


SnC


What's this?


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Re: Eurobasket 2022 Starts SEPTEMBER 1st 

Post#852 » by lambchop » Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:05 pm

GeorgeSears wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:Luka looks fat again


That's because he doesn't do any SnC in the offseason. He thinks playing scrimmage and in basketball tournaments is the way to do it. It's not. In reality, it's just going to wear him out. Forcing him to rest longer and gain more weight. Elite athletes improve through SnC. He still hasn't learned that.

Elite players improve by doing both, playing and SnC. Luka should essentially be lifting weights and working on his strength during the tournament, especially when playing against lesser competition where he doesn't have to be at 100%.

But, yea, playing alone won't get you in elite shape.
So many people who attain the heights of power in this culture—celebrities, for instance—have to make a show of false humility and modesty, as if they got as far as they did by accident and not by ego or ambition.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022, SEP 1st. games : ESP v BUL ; BiH v HUN ; TUR v MNE ; SLO v LTU ; BEL v GEO ; FRA v GER 

Post#853 » by XTraderXL » Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:48 pm

a-French-Fan wrote:In my opinion 7 teams are able to win: Slovenia, France, Serbia, Lithuania, Greece, Spain and ... Germany.
4 are in the group B. One part of the bracket may be easier to reach semi-finals ...
And in group B, Bosnia defeated France few days ago...
So let's see!


Slovenia will be lucky if they can get out of the quarterfinals. Its insane how overrated they are.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022, SEP 1st. games : ESP v BUL ; BiH v HUN ; TUR v MNE ; SLO v LTU ; BEL v GEO ; FRA v GER 

Post#854 » by a-French-Fan » Thu Sep 1, 2022 1:12 am

XTraderXL wrote:
a-French-Fan wrote:In my opinion 7 teams are able to win: Slovenia, France, Serbia, Lithuania, Greece, Spain and ... Germany.
4 are in the group B. One part of the bracket may be easier to reach semi-finals ...
And in group B, Bosnia defeated France few days ago...
So let's see!


Slovenia will be lucky if they can get out of the quarterfinals. Its insane how overrated they are.


Ask Lituanians if Slovenia was so overrated last year ...
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Francisco - Strazel - Malédon - Traoré ?
Coulibaly - Fournier
Risacher - Cordinier
Yabusele- Hoard - Essengue/Penda?
Wembanyama - Lessort - Raynaud / Beringer /Sarr?
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Re: Eurobasket 2022, SEP 1st. games : ESP v BUL ; BiH v HUN ; TUR v MNE ; SLO v LTU ; BEL v GEO ; FRA v GER 

Post#855 » by UcanUwill » Thu Sep 1, 2022 1:36 am

a-French-Fan wrote:
XTraderXL wrote:
a-French-Fan wrote:In my opinion 7 teams are able to win: Slovenia, France, Serbia, Lithuania, Greece, Spain and ... Germany.
4 are in the group B. One part of the bracket may be easier to reach semi-finals ...
And in group B, Bosnia defeated France few days ago...
So let's see!


Slovenia will be lucky if they can get out of the quarterfinals. Its insane how overrated they are.


Ask Lituanians if Slovenia was so overrated last year ...


exactly, I am very much hoping SLovenia is not good, but I doubt it will be the case.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022, SEP 1st. games : ESP v BUL ; BiH v HUN ; TUR v MNE ; SLO v LTU ; BEL v GEO ; FRA v GER 

Post#856 » by Pachinko_ » Thu Sep 1, 2022 1:59 am

IMO:

Slovenia is the best team in this tournament, they're lucky that they hit something with Mike Tobey and that player covered most of their weaknesses. Very potent offense, they can put any team away with just a good stretch. Feels like the European equivalent of the Warriors some times. Having said that they are really 5 or 6 capable players all up, so if one or two are having a bad game anything can happen. Dragic looked 100 years old against Germany.

Then it's France and Serbia pretty much at the same level, they're both good teams with full rosters and no real weaknesses. They might not have the scoring talent of Slovenia but they will adjust to any game, they just keep leaning on the opponent, and eventually their quality and depth turns almost every game in their favour.

Then it's Greece which is a weird team with some roster issues and some injuries, but if they get in their game and start running in transition they can beat anybody. Hard to bet against Giannis.

I haven't watched enough Lithuania so I don't have an opinion, but they[re almost always good. I have to say, watching Lithuanians play in front of their crowd always brings a smile to my face, the passion and love for the game in that country is contagious.

Other than those 4 (or 5) teams I don't really see it for anyone else. Having said that, in single elimination games anything is possible.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022, SEP 1st. games : ESP v BUL ; BiH v HUN ; TUR v MNE ; SLO v LTU ; BEL v GEO ; FRA v GER 

Post#857 » by Tomazan » Thu Sep 1, 2022 6:11 am

a-French-Fan wrote:
XTraderXL wrote:
a-French-Fan wrote:In my opinion 7 teams are able to win: Slovenia, France, Serbia, Lithuania, Greece, Spain and ... Germany.
4 are in the group B. One part of the bracket may be easier to reach semi-finals ...
And in group B, Bosnia defeated France few days ago...
So let's see!


Slovenia will be lucky if they can get out of the quarterfinals. Its insane how overrated they are.


Ask Lituanians if Slovenia was so overrated last year ...



Meh, to be honest (as a Lithuanian) I think all Lithuanians can agree that we had a lot of issues last year (starting with the HC). Now, for some reason I also think that Slovenia is overrated. I think they are definitely contenders to win the medals but it is nowhere "guaranteed" just because they have Luka.

I fully expect Luka and Dragič to kill our perimeter defense today, however, I really hope that our big guys (Valančiūnas and Sabonis) will attack Tobey every single possession in the first couple of minutes. Those who follow European basketball know that Tobey is really great on offense (especially with Luka) but he is kind of soft on the defensive end. And if Sabas/JV keeps going at him with anger - either Tobey will get very quick two fouls and sit for a long time or he will be forced to protect himself and let JV/Sabonis dominate the paint.

Tbh, I think todays game is not about Sabas/JV or Dragič/Luka but whichever's team's role players show up. Will it be Prepelič/Cančar/etc or Grigonis/Brazdeikis/Giedraitis etc.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022, SEP 1st. games : ESP v BUL ; BiH v HUN ; TUR v MNE ; SLO v LTU ; BEL v GEO ; FRA v GER 

Post#858 » by SpreeS » Thu Sep 1, 2022 6:24 am

a-French-Fan wrote:
XTraderXL wrote:
a-French-Fan wrote:In my opinion 7 teams are able to win: Slovenia, France, Serbia, Lithuania, Greece, Spain and ... Germany.
4 are in the group B. One part of the bracket may be easier to reach semi-finals ...
And in group B, Bosnia defeated France few days ago...
So let's see!


Slovenia will be lucky if they can get out of the quarterfinals. Its insane how overrated they are.


Ask Lituanians if Slovenia was so overrated last year ...


Last year Lithuania NT had the worst coach in team history.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022, SEP 1st. games : ESP v BUL ; BiH v HUN ; TUR v MNE ; SLO v LTU ; BEL v GEO ; FRA v GER 

Post#859 » by lambchop » Thu Sep 1, 2022 7:19 am

Tomazan wrote:
a-French-Fan wrote:
XTraderXL wrote:
Slovenia will be lucky if they can get out of the quarterfinals. Its insane how overrated they are.


Ask Lituanians if Slovenia was so overrated last year ...


I fully expect Luka and Dragič to kill our perimeter defense today(...)


This. Imo Slovenia definitely has the most formidable combination of perimeter players in the tournament in Dragic and Doncic. The next best would probably be something like Sloukas-Calathes / Fournier-Heurtel /Schroeder-Wagner/ Larkin-Korkmaz so yea imo that gap is pretty big. When Luka plays seriously he is very tough to limit both in the NBA and in FIBA games. So it will essentially come down to how consistent Dragic can be or as Tomazan said whether the role guys can carry some of that load.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022, SEP 1st. games : ESP v BUL ; BiH v HUN ; TUR v MNE ; SLO v LTU ; BEL v GEO ; FRA v GER 

Post#860 » by Nuntius » Thu Sep 1, 2022 11:39 am

And it begins!
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch

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