NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 4: MVP Thread's Revenge)

[dygaction]

Tatum is the 4th player to have at least 27/8/4 and 60 TS% for a team with a .750 win percentage. The previous 3 won MVP.

I am sorry but this reminded me the following



I am sure we can similarly choose other combinations of stats for the other mvp candidates

That's not the same thing. I said the 3 previous players who've had Tatum's stats for a team that won 75% of its games all won MVP. Which is not arbitrary or random at all.

Then someone asked me what the stats are, so I basically just added detail and put numbers on it. Apparently this is too nuanced for people to actually think about though.

The image did not even say what it was for. Just a stat cook that only Magic, Bird, Jordan, LeBron, and Young share.

[losmi]

Jayson Tatum leads the Celtics in points, rebounds, assists and steals. He's efficient. And the C's are significantly better when he's on the court.

3 players have had Tatum's stats for a team that won 75% of its games - Giannis, Malone and Kareem. All 3 won MVP.

which stats are u refering to?

Tatum is the 4th player to have at least 27/8/4 and 60 TS% for a team with a .750 win percentage. The previous 3 won MVP.

I'm not ambitious enough but it would be interesting to go back over the years and think about which MVP awards would have gone to different players if we'd had access to all of today's advanced stats. Seems like watching games and rewarding winning has taken a backseat to weird rating formulas with clever acronyms. I'm still old school I guess and not fully on board with all that.

You think voters watched more games in the old days, on TV, than now that there are services where they can watch any game whenever they want?

Best player on the best team was the way to vote when there was a limited access to the games and only basic box score stats. It's a relic of the past.

As for the arbitrary stats and win%, the same case could have been made for Devin Booker in '22.

[Wolfgang630]

Like I said times have change. Modern history has different ways to judge mvp.

[whatever_]

Tatum doesn't pass the eye test to be an MVP.

[dygaction]

Tatum doesn't pass the eye test to be an MVP.

What do you mean? he has a solid +5 while Luka has a negative -6.

[QPR]

Tatum doesn't pass the eye test to be an MVP.

He doesn't pass any test other than the generic "best player on best team" test.

[Swish1906]

Tatum doesn't pass the eye test to be an MVP.

He doesn't pass any test other than the generic "best player on best team" test.

„Not even by thaaat much best player on best team“

[RB34]

Some crazy takes in here.

I swear some of you hate basketball. There can be more than one good player in the league and people can enjoy more than one player/team.

[Swish1906]

Some crazy takes in here.

I swear some of you hate basketball. There can be more than one good player in the league and people can enjoy more than one player/team.

You are in the wrong thread. It’s the MVP thread, not the one about good players

[QPR]

No more posts about Luka in here now.

[BmanInBigD]

That's not the same thing. I said the 3 previous players who've had Tatum's stats for a team that won 75% of its games all won MVP. Which is not arbitrary or random at all.

Then someone asked me what the stats are, so I basically just added detail and put numbers on it. Apparently this is too nuanced for people to actually think about though.

There's not much nuance here, you're simply applying an arbitrary collection of stats and percentages to make an argument. The image provided demonstrates the folly of this perfectly.

27/8/4 is an off-night for the actual MVP contenders in the year 2024.

It's not at all arbitrary lol. You guys just don't want to hear it. I was asked for stats so I basically posted Tatum's stats and rounded them down since I was referring to a threshold. I didn't make anything up, and point/rebounds/assists/ts% are not random stats.

If you read my initial post, my case for Tatum is not stats based. Only a small part of my post got quoted. I listed stats only in response to a question I got.

My case is I value winning in the MVP race and I think the guy who leads the best team in every category and makes the team substantially better should be a strong candidate for MVP. And I said straight away that most people seem to have a different criteria than I do and would likely not agree.

I don't think Tatum is going to win MVP this season. I've said it at least 5 times in the last week. I just think he's strong candidate and it's reasonable to say so. And I don't really care about the LEBRONS or DARKOS or whatever people look at these days instead of basketball. My criteria puts the most value on winning.

One more thing while I'm at it... last year for, I dunno, maybe the first 75% of the season people in this thread were mocking Sixers fans for even mentioning Embiid as an MVP candidate and reporting them as trolls. Then Embiid won MVP.

Which kinda goes to my point about there being no defined criteria for MVP. The posters in this thread aren't always on the same page as the actually MVP voters and I think some folks here are really closed minded about things that go against their preconceived notions. Which reminds me of how this thread is not and has never been my favorite haha.

I was wondering who this guy was with all this bias and these ridiculous takes towards Tatum then I saw you were the Celtics board mod. Duh…

[RB34]

Some crazy takes in here.

I swear some of you hate basketball. There can be more than one good player in the league and people can enjoy more than one player/team.

You are in the wrong thread. It’s the MVP thread, not the one about good players

Yep, I know what thread I’m in. MVP discussion. There are 10+ players that get votes every year, not just one. Open your mind.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Some crazy takes in here.

I swear some of you hate basketball. There can be more than one good player in the league and people can enjoy more than one player/team.

You are in the wrong thread. It’s the MVP thread, not the one about good players

Yep, I know what thread I’m in. MVP discussion. There are 10+ players that get votes every year, not just one. Open your mind.

This thread has always been the talk up one guy and **** on others thread

As KD said, some NBA fans don’t even seem to like the game or players

[PierceFan4ever]

Tatum doesn't pass the eye test to be an MVP.

He doesn't pass any test other than the generic "best player on best team" test.

„Not even by thaaat much best player on best team“

He is by far the best player on the Celtics

Goddamn Mavs fans are such a salty bunch. Have fun not making the playoffs

[Lakers In 5]

Tatum over Luka is ridiculous.

1. Doncić
2. Jokić
3. SGA
4. Giannis
5. Tatum

Tatum over Doncic is just as ridiculous as Doncic over Jokic.

[Kurtz]

You are in the wrong thread. It’s the MVP thread, not the one about good players

Yep, I know what thread I’m in. MVP discussion. There are 10+ players that get votes every year, not just one. Open your mind.

This thread has always been the talk up one guy and **** on others thread

As KD said, some NBA fans don’t even seem to like the game or players

Nah, not really. This thread is usually a debate about the top 2 guys (usually Joker and Embiid, this year Joker and SGA), with Luka and Freak getting a bit of attention as the dark horses. Once in a while a homer will bring up a player on his own team, it's understandable, but they're usually dismissed with good reason.

Lots of guys who are great but have virtually no chance, have been brought up here at various points: Tatum, Brunson, Curry, KD, Mitchell, Kawhi, but while they're all 1st team all NBA candidates, they're not really there with the top 4 and especially the top 2.

[MiltownMadness]

Think Giannis will pick up a lot of steam to end the season, Bucks have settled in and will go on a really nice run here. Top 2 defense since AG was fired

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

wrong thread

[Kurtz]

Think Giannis will pick up a lot of steam to end the season, Bucks have settled in and will go on a really nice run here. Top 2 defense since AG was fired

Really? That is pretty impressive.

[MiltownMadness]

Think Giannis will pick up a lot of steam to end the season, Bucks have settled in and will go on a really nice run here. Top 2 defense since AG was fired

Really? That is pretty impressive.

Have held teams to under 100 in 5 of their last 8 games I believe without checking. Bucks fans were right on the money with calling AG a massive failure.