2019 NBA Finals Thread, Part 1 | Golden State Warriors vs Toronto Raptors

[Young Stapler]

damnn man, this series is so far away.

Then after game 1, it'll be another few days haha great for players though which is main thing.

Right?! I thought tomorrow was the 30th! Gotta wait until Thursday

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

[Duke4life831]

So Im just curious. Looking at the poll right now, there are more picks for Toronto to take the series than GS. So does that mean if GS wins we won't have to get thread after thread after thread about how much of a cakewalk it was for them and how they ruined the NBA because its obvious no one can compete with them? Or does that narrative come storming back if GS takes game 1?

[DingleJerry]

so Raptors fans are cocky for thinking their team can compete with a KD-less Warriors team....ya ok. Fans of other teams have been calling us cocky, delusional, and arrogant against the Magic, Sixers, Bucks, and now the Warriors. Most of us are Raptors homers, of course we're going to believe in our team. Do you want us to be insecure and say Warriors in 4?

If you want to see what cockiness is then read this:

Spoiler:

Ehh, I don't think we're on the same page at all. I don't think picking the Raptors to win is being cocky. It's the constant attacking of people picking the Warriors or people saying the Warriors might win this in 4 or 5 or 6 or w/e. I think Milwaukee was very overrated by Gen Board so I definitely agree with you there. The Raptors can definitely compete with the Warriors, KD or not. But it's not that crazy to claim the Warriors might dominate either considering well.. outside of the chokejob in 2016 might be the 4 time champions and the closest dynasty we've seen to the 90s Bulls and the 50/60's Celtics.

As per usual....

....fans of the Raptors saying their team can win = INSUFFERABLY COCKY

....fans of every other team saying their team will whomp the Raps = JUST BEING REASONABLE

You're correct. But man it's just the nature of the internet. Kind of what I tried to say through the lead up to the Bucks series, both sides gonna say why they think they can win. Otehr side is gonna act like they're wrong, cocky, arrogant. It's funny how predictable it is.

Think how easily one could spin it the other way from Raps perspective:

...fans of non Raptors team saying their team will win as favorites = cocky & arrogant
...fans of of Raptors fans telling teams that are heavily favored that they'll lose = just being reasonable.

It works both ways and best to just avoid dumb stuff like this and painting broad brushes on fans based on a few, as obviously some of all bases are going to be arrogant and cocky and might go over the top. It's just arguing for the sake of it. I remember you being really good on digging up data and real basketball stuff too and were a good poster after getting past stuff like this that is just argumentative, so don't take as a shot at you. Probably gonna And1 a few I just read now. Just in general to all to avoid combative us against them stuff. Rise above that and ref whining, haha.

Also, I think Raps have a much better shot than average joes who think it's a foregone conclusion GSW wins, like I thought for them last round too. Home court is a big deal, especially if KD doesn't play at least the first two. Also, think it was big to get the W in game 6 to get these extra few days off for Tor. We'll see, I expect a legit series that could go either way but can't not pick GSW. Tor is way deeper and really could make the difference. Getting game 1 is big imo.

[cpower]

just a what if scenario here, but if durant doesn't come back, and the raptors win the series, that means the core of steph + klay + green would be 1-2 in the finals w/o KD and the one win was a cavs team w/o irving + love. does it hurt their legacy? especially if kd leaves?

this post gave me an idea....why don't we go back and look at the history of the warriors pre-KD?

2013-14: 51 wins, lost 1st round

Curry (25): 36.5mpg, 28.3usg%, .225ws48, 7.4bpm --- PLYF: 42.3mpg, 23.1usg%, .131ws48, 3.7bpm
Dray (23): 21.9mpg, 14.8usg%, .119ws48, 2.8bpm ---- PLYF: 32.6mpg, 16.4usg%, .109ws48, 6.8bpm
Klay (23): 35.4mpg, 22.6usg%, .112ws48, 0.7bpm ---- PLYF: 36.7mpg, 20.5usg%, .045ws48, 0.6bpm
Iggy (30): 32.4mpg, 13.3usg%, .135ws48, 3.0bpm ---- PLYF: 35.4mpg, 16.7usg%, .049ws48, 1.3bpm
Lee (30): 33.2mpg, 24.3usg%, .160ws48, 0.8bpm ----- PLYF: 31.0mpg, 20.1usg%, .081ws48, 1.3bpm

Barnes (21): 28.3mpg, 16.8usg%, .070ws48, -1.4bpm - PLYF: 22.3mpg, 16.4usg%, .033ws48, -1.5bpm
O'Neal (35): 20.1mpg, 17.8usg%, .146ws48, -1.3bpm -- PLYF: 12.0mpg, 20.0usg%, .118ws48, -1.8bpm
Speights (26): 12.4mpg, 25.4usg%, .103ws48, -5.2bpm - PLYF: 9.7mpg, 27.1usg%, .146ws48, 1.5bpm

So the band was still young, but the band was all together at this point. Steph was already a super elite player, Klay was Klay, and Iggy was Iggy. Dray wasn't yet Dray during the regular season, but turned into Dray come playoffs. Lee was mediocre, the bench stunk. Unfortunately, this young team choked hard in the playoffs, led by Curry. Just poor performance across the board, except for the aforementioned Dray, the only guy to step up and he stepped up huge. This was also before they went all-in on their smallball lineup.


2014-15: 67wins, won Championship

Curry (26): 32.7mpg, 28.9usg%, .288ws48, 9.9bpm -------- PLYF: 39.3mpg, 31.0usg%, .228ws48, 8.7bpm
Dray (24): 31.5mpg, 17.2usg%, .163ws48, 5.0bpm --------- PLYF: 37.3mpg, 19.2usg%, .161ws48, 6.0bpm
Klay (24): 31.9mpg, 27.6usg%, .172ws48, 2.7bpm ---------- PLYF: 36.2mpg, 23.3usg%, .118ws48, 1.5bpm
Iggy (31): 26.9mpg, 13.3usg%, .117ws48, 1.6bpm ---------- PLYF: 30.2mpg, 15.1usg%, .170ws48, 4.1bpm
Barnes (22): 28.3mpg, 14.9usg%, .139ws48, 1.1bpm ------ PLYF: 32.4mpg, 15.6usg%, .115w48, 1.6bpm

Bogut (30): 23.6mpg, 13.2usg%, .159ws48, 4.1bpm -------- PLYF: 23.2mpg, 10.9usg%, .153ws48, 4.6bpm
Livingston (28): 18.8mpg, 15.9usg%, .107ws48, -1.7bpm -- PLYF: 17.9mpg, 13.3usg%, .118ws48, -0.5bpm
Barbosa (32): 14.9mpg, 20.5usg%, .137ws48, -0.8bpm ----- PLYF: 10.9mpg, 21.5usg%, .113ws48, -2.1bpm

Curry got even better. And now Dray joined him as a full time elite player. Klay actually had maybe his best year impact wise. And Iggy stepped up into Playoffs Iggy for the first time. Bogut being healthy again ended up being a bigtime impact add as well. And this time there was no choking come playoffs time. well, Klay choked a bit (though really his regular season may have been the career outlier here), but Iggy stepped up so large it didn;'t matter. Barnes actually looked like a useful player at this point too, though he was riding coattails.


2015-16: 73 wins, lost Finals

Curry (27): 34.2mpg, 32.6usg%, .318ws48, 12.5bpm ---------- PLYF: 34.1mpg, 32.1usg%, .152ws48, 6.4bpm
Dray (25): 34.7mpg, 18.8usg%, .190ws48, 5.8bpm ------------- PLYF: 38.2mpg, 18.9usg%, .171ws48, 7.1bpm
Klay (25): 33.3mpg, 26.3usg%, .144ws48, 0.7bpm ------------- PLYF: 35.4mpg, 28.0usg%, .142ws48, 2.8bpm
Iggy (32): 26.6mpg, 12.1usg%, .122ws48, 1.6bpm ------------- PLYF: 32.0mpg, 12.1usg%, .133ws48, 3.8bpm
Barnes (23): 30.9mpg, 15.9usg%, .116ws48, -0.2bpm --------- PLYF: 31.0mpg, 14.5usg%, .047ws48, -1.2bpm

Bogut (31): 20.7mpg, 11.4usg%, .180ws48, 4.5bpm ------------ PLYF: 16.6mpg, 12.3usg%, .194ws48, 7.4bpm
Livingston (29): 19.5mpg, 14.2usg%, .145ws48m, -0.5bpm --- PLYF: 21.4mpg, 18.2usg%, .108ws48, -0.7bpm
Barbosa (33): 15.9mpg, 18.1usg%, .091ws48, -2.1bpm -------- PLYF: 11.0mpg, 18.7usg%, .172ws48, 2.1bpm


Now this is pretty interesting. Curry went supernova this year, putting one of the elite impact seasons of all time. He was THE reason they won 73 games. Just amazing. But, looking at the numbers, I can't get past the fact that for the 2nd time in 3yrs, he kinda choked in the playoffs. He was still really damn good, but nowhere near what he was in the regular season. Dray and Iggy stepped up as usual in the playoffs again, and even Klay joined the party this time, but Steph just wasn't the same Steph in the playoffs, and that's probably whey they didn't win. In fact, the year they won is the only year where Stef maintained his super-elite regular season performance right through the playoffs.

Now we look at this year's team, without KD, and ask ourselves which of these three Warriors squads this year's team most closely resembles:

2018-19: 57 wins, in Finals

Curry (30): 33.8mpg, 30.4usg%, .199ws48, 6.3bpm -------- PLYF: 37.2mpg, 28.7usg%, .195ws48, 5.3bpm
Dray (28): 31.3mpg, 13.1usg%, .100ws48, 2.0bpm --------- PLYF: 37.7mpg, 17.5usg%, .139ws48, 5.7bpm
Klay (28): 34.0mpg, 25.6usg%, .095ws48, -0.8bpm --------- PLYF: 39.4mpg, 21.8usg%, .042ws48, -0.9bpm
Iggy (35): 23.2mpg, 10.4usg%, .129ws48, 1.9bpm ---------- PLYF: 29.4mpg, 13.6usg%, .152ws48. 5.1bpm
Cousins (28): 25.7mpg, 28.1usg%, .151ws48, 3.6bpm ------ PLYF: 12.5mpg, 34.3usg%, -.138ws48, -4.6bpm

Looney (22): 18.5mpg, 12.8usg%, .195ws48, 3.7bpm ------- PLYF: 20.5mpg, 11.6usg%, .209ws48, 4.8bpm
Livingston (33): 15.1mpg, 12.0usg%, .101ws48, -1.5bpm --- PLYF: 14.0mpg, 11.9usg%, .097ws48, -1.5bpm
McKinnie (26): 13.9mpg, 13.9usg%, .100ws48, -2.5bpm ---- PLYF: 11.1mpg, 11.9usg%, .087ws48, -3.5bpm

So I think everyone is prepared to concede that the warriors' regular season performance has to be taken with large doses of salt, as they weren't keeping their foot on the gas all year.

And indeed, we can see that clearly here - once again, Playoffs Dray and Playoffs Iggy have stepped up as always despite their poor regular seasons. Klay hasn't stepped up, though, and he is starting to look like he's gone from "good but overrated" to "kinda bad and still overrated".

What's interesting to me here again is Mr.Curry - once again he had a great regular season, but maybe not quite as high impact as the pre-KD years. The one year they won without KD, Curry was elite of elite in the playoffs - and this year he's not quite there. Of course, what makes it more interesting is that he sure as hell looked like he was there last series. So the question is can Curry go supernova against the raps like he did against the Blazers? I'd say he probably needs to, because there's less support than usual. Dray and Iggy are great as always, but Klay doesn't seem to be prime Klay anymore, and now of course with the injuries the depth beyond that looks spottier than usual as well.

If I had to say which previous Playoffs Warriors the current team most resembles based on these numbers, I'd have to say the '16 Warriors that lost in the finals - Curry looks very good but maybe not super-elite, Dray and Iggy both look great, the 5th starter is a big question mark and they have one big off the bench consistently having a good impact....they seem very similar player by player with one exception - Klay seems to be a noticably lesser player now than he was then.

i appreciated your time and effort ...but seriously man what is this? except for the numbers, most of the stuff are pretty inaccurate. Let me give you a hint...Warriors w/o KD plays a lot like Bucks and Curry played a lot like Giannis...You crowd the paint for Giannis and you trap Curry at half court to give the ball out of their hands and force the role players to beat you. Winning in 15 or losing in 16, they played the same way and sometimes the open shots dropped and some other times not. Raptors game plan will be heavily trapping Curry and force Klay/Role players to score.

[Yorkex]

Read on Twitter

[ForeverTFC]

So Im just curious. Looking at the poll right now, there are more picks for Toronto to take the series than GS. So does that mean if GS wins we won't have to get thread after thread after thread about how much of a cakewalk it was for them and how they ruined the NBA because its obvious no one can compete with them? Or does that narrative come storming back if GS takes game 1?

Come on man, you're been around long enough. 90% of the folks who picked the Raptors are Raptors fans. Of course we're going to pick our team to win. I would say with certainty that the non-Raptors population is leaning heavily toward the Warriors.

[niQ]

Read on Twitter

KD to Toronto confirmed.

[ForeverTFC]

Read on Twitter

That's not a regular walk.

[OptionZero]

thats a pretty obvious limp, in line with reports he had not resumed bb activities

[RaptorHooter]

Read on Twitter

Walking like I do, that's not encouraging.

[everdiso]

just a what if scenario here, but if durant doesn't come back, and the raptors win the series, that means the core of steph + klay + green would be 1-2 in the finals w/o KD and the one win was a cavs team w/o irving + love. does it hurt their legacy? especially if kd leaves?

this post gave me an idea....why don't we go back and look at the history of the warriors pre-KD?

2013-14: 51 wins, lost 1st round

Curry (25): 36.5mpg, 28.3usg%, .225ws48, 7.4bpm --- PLYF: 42.3mpg, 23.1usg%, .131ws48, 3.7bpm
Dray (23): 21.9mpg, 14.8usg%, .119ws48, 2.8bpm ---- PLYF: 32.6mpg, 16.4usg%, .109ws48, 6.8bpm
Klay (23): 35.4mpg, 22.6usg%, .112ws48, 0.7bpm ---- PLYF: 36.7mpg, 20.5usg%, .045ws48, 0.6bpm
Iggy (30): 32.4mpg, 13.3usg%, .135ws48, 3.0bpm ---- PLYF: 35.4mpg, 16.7usg%, .049ws48, 1.3bpm
Lee (30): 33.2mpg, 24.3usg%, .160ws48, 0.8bpm ----- PLYF: 31.0mpg, 20.1usg%, .081ws48, 1.3bpm

Barnes (21): 28.3mpg, 16.8usg%, .070ws48, -1.4bpm - PLYF: 22.3mpg, 16.4usg%, .033ws48, -1.5bpm
O'Neal (35): 20.1mpg, 17.8usg%, .146ws48, -1.3bpm -- PLYF: 12.0mpg, 20.0usg%, .118ws48, -1.8bpm
Speights (26): 12.4mpg, 25.4usg%, .103ws48, -5.2bpm - PLYF: 9.7mpg, 27.1usg%, .146ws48, 1.5bpm

So the band was still young, but the band was all together at this point. Steph was already a super elite player, Klay was Klay, and Iggy was Iggy. Dray wasn't yet Dray during the regular season, but turned into Dray come playoffs. Lee was mediocre, the bench stunk. Unfortunately, this young team choked hard in the playoffs, led by Curry. Just poor performance across the board, except for the aforementioned Dray, the only guy to step up and he stepped up huge. This was also before they went all-in on their smallball lineup.


2014-15: 67wins, won Championship

Curry (26): 32.7mpg, 28.9usg%, .288ws48, 9.9bpm -------- PLYF: 39.3mpg, 31.0usg%, .228ws48, 8.7bpm
Dray (24): 31.5mpg, 17.2usg%, .163ws48, 5.0bpm --------- PLYF: 37.3mpg, 19.2usg%, .161ws48, 6.0bpm
Klay (24): 31.9mpg, 27.6usg%, .172ws48, 2.7bpm ---------- PLYF: 36.2mpg, 23.3usg%, .118ws48, 1.5bpm
Iggy (31): 26.9mpg, 13.3usg%, .117ws48, 1.6bpm ---------- PLYF: 30.2mpg, 15.1usg%, .170ws48, 4.1bpm
Barnes (22): 28.3mpg, 14.9usg%, .139ws48, 1.1bpm ------ PLYF: 32.4mpg, 15.6usg%, .115w48, 1.6bpm

Bogut (30): 23.6mpg, 13.2usg%, .159ws48, 4.1bpm -------- PLYF: 23.2mpg, 10.9usg%, .153ws48, 4.6bpm
Livingston (28): 18.8mpg, 15.9usg%, .107ws48, -1.7bpm -- PLYF: 17.9mpg, 13.3usg%, .118ws48, -0.5bpm
Barbosa (32): 14.9mpg, 20.5usg%, .137ws48, -0.8bpm ----- PLYF: 10.9mpg, 21.5usg%, .113ws48, -2.1bpm

Curry got even better. And now Dray joined him as a full time elite player. Klay actually had maybe his best year impact wise. And Iggy stepped up into Playoffs Iggy for the first time. Bogut being healthy again ended up being a bigtime impact add as well. And this time there was no choking come playoffs time. well, Klay choked a bit (though really his regular season may have been the career outlier here), but Iggy stepped up so large it didn;'t matter. Barnes actually looked like a useful player at this point too, though he was riding coattails.


2015-16: 73 wins, lost Finals

Curry (27): 34.2mpg, 32.6usg%, .318ws48, 12.5bpm ---------- PLYF: 34.1mpg, 32.1usg%, .152ws48, 6.4bpm
Dray (25): 34.7mpg, 18.8usg%, .190ws48, 5.8bpm ------------- PLYF: 38.2mpg, 18.9usg%, .171ws48, 7.1bpm
Klay (25): 33.3mpg, 26.3usg%, .144ws48, 0.7bpm ------------- PLYF: 35.4mpg, 28.0usg%, .142ws48, 2.8bpm
Iggy (32): 26.6mpg, 12.1usg%, .122ws48, 1.6bpm ------------- PLYF: 32.0mpg, 12.1usg%, .133ws48, 3.8bpm
Barnes (23): 30.9mpg, 15.9usg%, .116ws48, -0.2bpm --------- PLYF: 31.0mpg, 14.5usg%, .047ws48, -1.2bpm

Bogut (31): 20.7mpg, 11.4usg%, .180ws48, 4.5bpm ------------ PLYF: 16.6mpg, 12.3usg%, .194ws48, 7.4bpm
Livingston (29): 19.5mpg, 14.2usg%, .145ws48m, -0.5bpm --- PLYF: 21.4mpg, 18.2usg%, .108ws48, -0.7bpm
Barbosa (33): 15.9mpg, 18.1usg%, .091ws48, -2.1bpm -------- PLYF: 11.0mpg, 18.7usg%, .172ws48, 2.1bpm


Now this is pretty interesting. Curry went supernova this year, putting one of the elite impact seasons of all time. He was THE reason they won 73 games. Just amazing. But, looking at the numbers, I can't get past the fact that for the 2nd time in 3yrs, he kinda choked in the playoffs. He was still really damn good, but nowhere near what he was in the regular season. Dray and Iggy stepped up as usual in the playoffs again, and even Klay joined the party this time, but Steph just wasn't the same Steph in the playoffs, and that's probably whey they didn't win. In fact, the year they won is the only year where Stef maintained his super-elite regular season performance right through the playoffs.

Now we look at this year's team, without KD, and ask ourselves which of these three Warriors squads this year's team most closely resembles:

2018-19: 57 wins, in Finals

Curry (30): 33.8mpg, 30.4usg%, .199ws48, 6.3bpm -------- PLYF: 37.2mpg, 28.7usg%, .195ws48, 5.3bpm
Dray (28): 31.3mpg, 13.1usg%, .100ws48, 2.0bpm --------- PLYF: 37.7mpg, 17.5usg%, .139ws48, 5.7bpm
Klay (28): 34.0mpg, 25.6usg%, .095ws48, -0.8bpm --------- PLYF: 39.4mpg, 21.8usg%, .042ws48, -0.9bpm
Iggy (35): 23.2mpg, 10.4usg%, .129ws48, 1.9bpm ---------- PLYF: 29.4mpg, 13.6usg%, .152ws48. 5.1bpm
Cousins (28): 25.7mpg, 28.1usg%, .151ws48, 3.6bpm ------ PLYF: 12.5mpg, 34.3usg%, -.138ws48, -4.6bpm

Looney (22): 18.5mpg, 12.8usg%, .195ws48, 3.7bpm ------- PLYF: 20.5mpg, 11.6usg%, .209ws48, 4.8bpm
Livingston (33): 15.1mpg, 12.0usg%, .101ws48, -1.5bpm --- PLYF: 14.0mpg, 11.9usg%, .097ws48, -1.5bpm
McKinnie (26): 13.9mpg, 13.9usg%, .100ws48, -2.5bpm ---- PLYF: 11.1mpg, 11.9usg%, .087ws48, -3.5bpm

So I think everyone is prepared to concede that the warriors' regular season performance has to be taken with large doses of salt, as they weren't keeping their foot on the gas all year.

And indeed, we can see that clearly here - once again, Playoffs Dray and Playoffs Iggy have stepped up as always despite their poor regular seasons. Klay hasn't stepped up, though, and he is starting to look like he's gone from "good but overrated" to "kinda bad and still overrated".

What's interesting to me here again is Mr.Curry - once again he had a great regular season, but maybe not quite as high impact as the pre-KD years. The one year they won without KD, Curry was elite of elite in the playoffs - and this year he's not quite there. Of course, what makes it more interesting is that he sure as hell looked like he was there last series. So the question is can Curry go supernova against the raps like he did against the Blazers? I'd say he probably needs to, because there's less support than usual. Dray and Iggy are great as always, but Klay doesn't seem to be prime Klay anymore, and now of course with the injuries the depth beyond that looks spottier than usual as well.

If I had to say which previous Playoffs Warriors the current team most resembles based on these numbers, I'd have to say the '16 Warriors that lost in the finals - Curry looks very good but maybe not super-elite, Dray and Iggy both look great, the 5th starter is a big question mark and they have one big off the bench consistently having a good impact....they seem very similar player by player with one exception - Klay seems to be a noticably lesser player now than he was then.

i appreciated your time and effort ...but seriously man what is this? except for the numbers, most of the stuff are pretty inaccurate. Let me give you a hint...Warriors w/o KD plays a lot like Bucks and Curry played a lot like Giannis...You crowd the paint for Giannis and you trap Curry at half court to give the ball out of their hands and force the role players to beat you. Winning in 15 or losing in 16, they played the same way and sometimes the open shots dropped and some other times not. Raptors game plan will be heavily trapping Curry and force Klay/Role players to score.

Wow coach thanks for that. You woulda saved me so much time!

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

KD hobbling as he walks towards the airplane is not a good sign if you are the Warriors.

[dacrusha]

Achilles tear, right?

[FlatearthZorro]

So Im just curious. Looking at the poll right now, there are more picks for Toronto to take the series than GS. So does that mean if GS wins we won't have to get thread after thread after thread about how much of a cakewalk it was for them and how they ruined the NBA because its obvious no one can compete with them? Or does that narrative come storming back if GS takes game 1?

There shouldn't be.

But it will come storming back if the Warriors win.

[FlatearthZorro]

KD hobbling as he walks towards the airplane is not a good sign if you are the Warriors.

Durant is in his feelings right now. He wont play if he was doing ballet the day before the video where he was hobbling was shot. Dude is a mental midget, despite being possibly the best player in the game.

[bon]

So Im just curious. Looking at the poll right now, there are more picks for Toronto to take the series than GS. So does that mean if GS wins we won't have to get thread after thread after thread about how much of a cakewalk it was for them and how they ruined the NBA because its obvious no one can compete with them? Or does that narrative come storming back if GS takes game 1?

So we're going to pretend this would happen if KD doesn't come back? The majority of the votes are based on him being out

[mademan]

So Im just curious. Looking at the poll right now, there are more picks for Toronto to take the series than GS. So does that mean if GS wins we won't have to get thread after thread after thread about how much of a cakewalk it was for them and how they ruined the NBA because its obvious no one can compete with them? Or does that narrative come storming back if GS takes game 1?

So a real GM poll, of which Raps fans make up a large segment, is more indicative of the disparity between the 2 teams than, say, the Vegas odds that put the Warriors as 3-1 favs?

[Dan Z]

This may have been asked before but, why such a long delay between series? None of the other playoff series waited this long.

[will]

This may have been asked before but, why such a long delay between series? None of the other playoff series waited this long.

Kawhi Leonard has no qualms.

[+2number4+]

Trapping Curry. Trapping a constantly moving player with or without a ball. That's the masterplan?