76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

Truly bizarre that people are completely dismissing his mental health struggles as there’s lots of evidence to the contrary

His own sister is going through things and his family would have to condone his behaviour as they’re very close

If true, this is next level Machiavellian stuff

Not buying it

Something more is happening

I'm going to say this as respectfully as I can- that's not the 76ers' problem. Once again, they aren't forcing him to work....they are just not paying him to not work. Ben is a multi-millionaire...if the mental struggles are so bad right now that he can't perform his job, take the year off and get better. A company shouldn't have to pay him millions of dollars for it though.

The takeaway I'm getting is that people think businesses should hire all people suffering from mental health issues to large enough salaries that they can then go seek help outside of the company and not have any obligation to provide the company paying them with so much as a note every year that they are still alive, much less set out a path between employer and employee leading to resuming work, because presumably if they die, it wouldn't be any business of the company paying them anyway.

[K3nny Pow3rs]

It indicates that they do not view them as untouchable. They don't view him as NOLA viewed AD, as Indy viewed PG, as SAS viewed Kawhi or as Philly views Embiid. And they are right to not view them as untouchable. He simply isn't that good to be considered untouchable.

The reason why I keep making that point is to counter the narrative that this is yet another situation where a star is trying to force his way out of a team that is desperately trying to keep him. It's simply not that kind of situation. Both sides desire a trade here.

They only desire a trade if they overwhelmingly WIN. Just like Nola would have traded AD for Lebron and Curry in a second, that just wasn't a realistic or possible trade. And of course PG was tradable, you think if they could have flipped him for Lebron they'd have given it a second thought? Of course not. Same with the spurs and Leonard.

Sure, every team would trade any player if they overhwelmingly won the trade. Everyone would trade their star for a LeBron, a KD or a Doncic. That's a given.

That said, I do not believe that the situations in question are analogous. And they're not analogous, simply because Simmons isn't as good as an AD, a PG or a Kawhi. He isn't at that level. Demanding superstar returns for a player that is, at best, a star with some major holes in his game doesn't make much sense to me.

Philly probably know Simmons will be better than AD, PG and Kawhi. He made the 3rd Team All-NBA last year, and finished 2nd in DPOY votes this year. They probably assume he'll have a half-decent jump shot eventually (and they watch him shoot in practice, so they'd know), and that would put him above just about everybody in the NBA, considering what he's already done without even attempted shots.... and drops 42 at Utah in his sleep.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I think that the Sixers ownership is so afraid to take responsibility for any mistakes that the franchise has made that they're willing to use their medical team as a spin machine to shift the blame to their players.

I don't understand why this is an acceptable position, even if it's based on literally nothing, while thinking that Ben is using the excuse of mental health to ensure a consistent cashflow isn't.

[SecondTake]

Mental health is health, bro.

Try to reconsider your post with that in mind? Health? Like an injury?

Im trying my best to break it down to its simplest form- because thats just what it is, regardless of what your reality says. And regardless of how much anger or jealousy you may temporarily have.

Stop anthropomorphizing millionaire superstar athletes. Once youre that rich in your 20s you have no excuses. I don't wanna hear about the mental health of a rich 20 something.

Sent from my SM-G950W using RealGM mobile app

Anthropomorphizing? You're aware about what you're implying here, right? To anthropomorphize something is to make something non-human into human. Like, you know, billion-dollar companies like it's the trend lately (seen those sassy Wendy tweets?).

The athletes you're talking about, though, are human. Your choice of words here imply that you're seeing them as something less than human which is just sickening. Is this what you truly meant? That you don't view NBA players as human?

This isnt about NBA players. It is about ultra millionaires from any walk of life. They should not be humanized. Due to their wealth they should be considered the equivalent of a corporation and treated as such, rather than a real person.

[K3nny Pow3rs]

I think that the Sixers ownership is so afraid to take responsibility for any mistakes that the franchise has made that they're willing to use their medical team as a spin machine to shift the blame to their players.

I don't understand why this is an acceptable position, even if it's based on literally nothing, while thinking that Ben is using the excuse of mental health to ensure a consistent cashflow isn't.

Because if that assumption is inaccurate

Spoiler:

(the assumption that Ben's faking mental illness)

, you are helping push a stigma that is damaging to a most vulnerable group. And there is no indication that Ben is faking that illness, because anyone with Ben's family problem would very likely suffer mentally (and perhaps even more so in Ben's case, because the step-brother is directly involved in his career).

[panthermark]

Mental health? LOL
Ben's "issue"" is that he can't shoot. I know it, you know, he knows it, his teammates know it, his coach knows it, the opposing team knows it...hell, everybody knows it.

It is very difficult to be a superstar NBA guard that can't shoot.....especially when exposed on National TV in the biggest of moments.

He wants a fresh start.....but there is no fresh start because HE is the problem. As talented as he is, a PG that can't shoot AT ALL is a role player. No one builds around role players because the underlying weakness is still there.

Mental health sounds like a cop-out to me.

[DTP]

I think that the Sixers ownership is so afraid to take responsibility for any mistakes that the franchise has made that they're willing to use their medical team as a spin machine to shift the blame to their players.

I don't understand why this is an acceptable position, even if it's based on literally nothing, while thinking that Ben is using the excuse of mental health to ensure a consistent cashflow isn't.

Because if that assumption is inaccurate

Spoiler:

(the assumption that Ben's faking mental illness)

, you are helping push a stigma that is damaging to a most vulnerable group. And there is no indication that Ben is faking that illness, because anyone with Ben's family problem would very likely suffer mentally (and perhaps even more so in Ben's case, because the step-brother is directly involved in his career).

Hurting someone's feelings isn't a violation of the NBA contract, so no matter what the public opinion is of what the Sixers did wrong, they haven't violated any contract. Ben Simmons has by not showing up on time and then refusing to participate when he did. This isn't about right or wrong, it's simply about the contract. Don't show up and participate, don't get paid. 76ers couldn't dock him pay for showing up but not playing hard.....that would then be a violation on their part.

[Nuntius]

There's no player on the Pacers they wouldn't deal straight up for Doncic

Sure.

so it would only be right if the entire team requested a trade out of Indy.

Again, I'm not saying that Simmons is right to request a trade. What I am saying is that the Sixers are willing to trade him. This isn't like the AD situation with NOLA where NOLA wasn't willing to trade AD but AD forced their hands. This isn't a star forcing his way out of the point. This is a situation where both sides want a trade. That's what I'm trying to say.

And as for my Pacers, yes, we don't have any player we consider untouchable either. We are open to trade everyone and the players know this.

So basically you're saying the only reason the Pacers don't trade all their players is because none have requested it, and if 1 or more requested it, you'd suggest immediately trading them, since it's already established there are players that exist which the Pacers would trade at least one of their players for.

I am saying that if a current Pacer requested a trade and the Pacers also wanted to trade him then, yes, we shouldn't be holding out and we should be looking to actively trade them.

Again, I believe that the Sixers want to trade him. It makes sense for them to trade him. He doesn't freaking fit with their star at all.

[Nuntius]

They only desire a trade if they overwhelmingly WIN. Just like Nola would have traded AD for Lebron and Curry in a second, that just wasn't a realistic or possible trade. And of course PG was tradable, you think if they could have flipped him for Lebron they'd have given it a second thought? Of course not. Same with the spurs and Leonard.

Sure, every team would trade any player if they overhwelmingly won the trade. Everyone would trade their star for a LeBron, a KD or a Doncic. That's a given.

That said, I do not believe that the situations in question are analogous. And they're not analogous, simply because Simmons isn't as good as an AD, a PG or a Kawhi. He isn't at that level. Demanding superstar returns for a player that is, at best, a star with some major holes in his game doesn't make much sense to me.

And yet the 76ers are doing JUST that. Thus your attempt to make it sound like philly is looking to move on from Simmons doesn't hold water. The 76ers looked to move Simmons for James Harden. That's the kind of player they'd move him for, an overwhelming win.

Not quite. They were talking with a lot of teams over the summer for a possible Simmons, including teams that had no player like Harden. I mean, they were talking with the Pacers and we don't have a lot of top-end talent.

[Tomjas]

Truly bizarre that people are completely dismissing his mental health struggles as there’s lots of evidence to the contrary

His own sister is going through things and his family would have to condone his behaviour as they’re very close

If true, this is next level Machiavellian stuff

Not buying it

Something more is happening

I'm going to say this as respectfully as I can- that's not the 76ers' problem. Once again, they aren't forcing him to work....they are just not paying him to not work. Ben is a multi-millionaire...if the mental struggles are so bad right now that he can't perform his job, take the year off and get better. A company shouldn't have to pay him millions of dollars for it though.

Respectfully, for many posters, this more about having a shot at Simmons than making objective comments

If the latter was the case then we would see the same opinions being ventured about Rui Hachimura

Instead, there’s been virtually nothing

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I think that the Sixers ownership is so afraid to take responsibility for any mistakes that the franchise has made that they're willing to use their medical team as a spin machine to shift the blame to their players.

I don't understand why this is an acceptable position, even if it's based on literally nothing, while thinking that Ben is using the excuse of mental health to ensure a consistent cashflow isn't.

Because if that assumption is inaccurate

Spoiler:

(the assumption that Ben's faking mental illness)

, you are helping push a stigma that is damaging to a most vulnerable group. And there is no indication that Ben is faking that illness, because anyone with Ben's family problem would very likely suffer mentally (and perhaps even more so in Ben's case, because the step-brother is directly involved in his career).

What about the fact that, if the assumption is accurate, Ben is pushing the stigma even further making ordinary people leaving these kinds of conditions with less credibility?

[NBA Moses]

I will ask the board AGAIN - how many of you would have traded Ben Simmons for James Harden?

This narrative about "how they tried to trade him long before he asked for a trade" is ridiculous. And even if they were prepared to trade him for Harden, and the deal fell through, guess what?

HONOR YOUR FKN CONTRACT YO.

Klutch + Ben Simmons have floated a 1/2 dozen excuses on why they need a trade.

IMO 1A. Klutch +Simmons want a place where Ben Simmons is the franchise, they dont want to play 2nd fiddle to Embiid.
Simmons/Embiids games clash.

1B. Philly media/fans a little too hostile for mild mannered Simmons.

[Nuntius]

I think that the Sixers ownership is so afraid to take responsibility for any mistakes that the franchise has made that they're willing to use their medical team as a spin machine to shift the blame to their players.

I don't understand why this is an acceptable position, even if it's based on literally nothing, while thinking that Ben is using the excuse of mental health to ensure a consistent cashflow isn't.

What's acceptable or not depends on the individual. You, for example, obviously believe that your position is acceptable while mine isn't. I believe the opposite. The issue I have with the position you're taking is that I believe that it is a position that reinforces the stigma against mental health. That people who say they have a mental health issue are "faking it" and just need to "toughen up". I consider this position to be detrimental to society at large which is why I disagree with it.

My position, on the other hand, revolves around my belief that hugely successful people also have huge egos and that they'll go to great lengths to make sure that they don't look "weak". I believe this position to generally be true (even if it's a tad of a generalization) and I do not consider it to be detrimental to society at large.

And that difference in beliefs shapes the difference in our opinions. That's quite natural.

[dhsilv2]

Sure, every team would trade any player if they overhwelmingly won the trade. Everyone would trade their star for a LeBron, a KD or a Doncic. That's a given.

That said, I do not believe that the situations in question are analogous. And they're not analogous, simply because Simmons isn't as good as an AD, a PG or a Kawhi. He isn't at that level. Demanding superstar returns for a player that is, at best, a star with some major holes in his game doesn't make much sense to me.

And yet the 76ers are doing JUST that. Thus your attempt to make it sound like philly is looking to move on from Simmons doesn't hold water. The 76ers looked to move Simmons for James Harden. That's the kind of player they'd move him for, an overwhelming win.

Not quite. They were talking with a lot of teams over the summer for a possible Simmons, including teams that had no player like Harden. I mean, they were talking with the Pacers and we don't have a lot of top-end talent.

That was AFTER a trade demand. Come on man...

The 76ers showed no serious interest in making a deal for the Ben before there request to leave. After that they have been very clear that they want are star or a massive package of players and picks. Which one would have to assume is to then flip for said star they want.

This is the same thing as Leonard, Harden and AD. They started talking trades once they felt they had to. The difference is that even in trade talks, the 76ers don't seem to want to make a move unless it's an obvious win. Those other teams by now had already taken lesser deals.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Truly bizarre that people are completely dismissing his mental health struggles as there’s lots of evidence to the contrary

His own sister is going through things and his family would have to condone his behaviour as they’re very close

If true, this is next level Machiavellian stuff

Not buying it

Something more is happening

I'm going to say this as respectfully as I can- that's not the 76ers' problem. Once again, they aren't forcing him to work....they are just not paying him to not work. Ben is a multi-millionaire...if the mental struggles are so bad right now that he can't perform his job, take the year off and get better. A company shouldn't have to pay him millions of dollars for it though.

Respectfully, for many posters, this more about having a shot at Simmons than making objective comments

If the latter was the case then we would see the same opinions being ventured about Rui Hachimura

Instead, there’s been virtually nothing

You don't see it because Rui Hachimura didn't say in advance that he wouldn't have reported to camp, didn't demand a trade at his own terms, he didn't magically show up once he realized fines were piling up and he was not going to see his money, didn't get suspended for bad behavior in practice and didn't just at that point mention "mental readiness" as the reason why he couldn't play (even if he was seeing a therapist, that was not the reason originally given).
Yours is just a strawman, there are plenty of reasons to be EXTREMELY SKEPTICAL, in this case.

[Nuntius]

Stop anthropomorphizing millionaire superstar athletes. Once youre that rich in your 20s you have no excuses. I don't wanna hear about the mental health of a rich 20 something.

Sent from my SM-G950W using RealGM mobile app

Anthropomorphizing? You're aware about what you're implying here, right? To anthropomorphize something is to make something non-human into human. Like, you know, billion-dollar companies like it's the trend lately (seen those sassy Wendy tweets?).

The athletes you're talking about, though, are human. Your choice of words here imply that you're seeing them as something less than human which is just sickening. Is this what you truly meant? That you don't view NBA players as human?

This isnt about NBA players. It is about ultra millionaires from any walk of life. They should not be humanized. Due to their wealth they should be considered the equivalent of a corporation and treated as such, rather than a real person.

Athletes are definitely NOT corporations. What you said may apply to the 1% of the population who control the majority of the world's wealth (to be clear, I'm talking about the "being a corporation" part not the "they should not be humanized" part) but it definitely doesn't apply to X random athlete. The money that athletes make only makes a tiny part of the pie and they also do not control any serious productive means (other than their own bodies) which is why it's quite common to see athletes go broke after they retire.

[Nuntius]

They only desire a trade if they overwhelmingly WIN. Just like Nola would have traded AD for Lebron and Curry in a second, that just wasn't a realistic or possible trade. And of course PG was tradable, you think if they could have flipped him for Lebron they'd have given it a second thought? Of course not. Same with the spurs and Leonard.

Sure, every team would trade any player if they overhwelmingly won the trade. Everyone would trade their star for a LeBron, a KD or a Doncic. That's a given.

That said, I do not believe that the situations in question are analogous. And they're not analogous, simply because Simmons isn't as good as an AD, a PG or a Kawhi. He isn't at that level. Demanding superstar returns for a player that is, at best, a star with some major holes in his game doesn't make much sense to me.

Philly probably know Simmons will be better than AD, PG and Kawhi. He made the 3rd Team All-NBA last year, and finished 2nd in DPOY votes this year. They probably assume he'll have a half-decent jump shot eventually (and they watch him shoot in practice, so they'd know), and that would put him above just about everybody in the NBA, considering what he's already done without even attempted shots.... and drops 42 at Utah in his sleep.

I have agreed with most of your posts throughout this thread, especially when it comes to mental health, and I do thank you for sharing some of your insights about what happened to Ben's family last year (I was unaware of that before I read this thread). That said, our evaluations of Simmons couldn't be any more different.

[Nuntius]

That was AFTER a trade demand. Come on man...

And before that was the Harden and the team letting the world know that they don't view Simmons as a player who can lead them to a title. We're going in circles here, my friend.

The 76ers showed no serious interest in making a deal for the Ben before there request to leave. After that they have been very clear that they want are star or a massive package of players and picks. Which one would have to assume is to then flip for said star they want.

Which is a riduculous demand for a player of Simmons' caliber. He isn't good enough to get that kind of return.

This is the same thing as Leonard, Harden and AD. They started talking trades once they felt they had to. The difference is that even in trade talks, the 76ers don't seem to want to make a move unless it's an obvious win. Those other teams by now had already taken lesser deals.

I 100% disagree. In these situations, we were talking about by far the best player on the team. The face of the franchise. The player that the team was built around. Those aren't the case with Simmons. Embiid is by far the best player on the team, not Simmons. Simmons is the 2nd best player and, offensively, he's the 3rd option at best (a lot of times he's the 4th or even 5th option).

These teams had every reason to want to keep these guys since they were their win conditions. Simmons isn't Philly's win condition. If anything, he's often been the detriment to the team winning.

[madmaxmedia]

Stop anthropomorphizing millionaire superstar athletes. Once youre that rich in your 20s you have no excuses. I don't wanna hear about the mental health of a rich 20 something.

Sent from my SM-G950W using RealGM mobile app

Anthropomorphizing? You're aware about what you're implying here, right? To anthropomorphize something is to make something non-human into human. Like, you know, billion-dollar companies like it's the trend lately (seen those sassy Wendy tweets?).

The athletes you're talking about, though, are human. Your choice of words here imply that you're seeing them as something less than human which is just sickening. Is this what you truly meant? That you don't view NBA players as human?

This isnt about NBA players. It is about ultra millionaires from any walk of life. They should not be humanized. Due to their wealth they should be considered the equivalent of a corporation and treated as such, rather than a real person.

Taxing the rich at higher rates is one thing, not considering them to be human and thus worthy of human respect and consideration is another...

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

Sure.



Again, I'm not saying that Simmons is right to request a trade. What I am saying is that the Sixers are willing to trade him. This isn't like the AD situation with NOLA where NOLA wasn't willing to trade AD but AD forced their hands. This isn't a star forcing his way out of the point. This is a situation where both sides want a trade. That's what I'm trying to say.

And as for my Pacers, yes, we don't have any player we consider untouchable either. We are open to trade everyone and the players know this.

So basically you're saying the only reason the Pacers don't trade all their players is because none have requested it, and if 1 or more requested it, you'd suggest immediately trading them, since it's already established there are players that exist which the Pacers would trade at least one of their players for.

I am saying that if a current Pacer requested a trade and the Pacers also wanted to trade him then, yes, we shouldn't be holding out and we should be looking to actively trade them.

Again, I believe that the Sixers want to trade him. It makes sense for them to trade him. He doesn't freaking fit with their star at all.

Well we already established that both Philly and Indy are willing (want as you put it) to trade anyone outside of Embiid for a superstar, so all Pacers fit the same criteria as Simmons.