Nikola Jokic wins MVP(again)

[Gusto1903]

Zach Lowe is a god amongst NBA media, and podcasters. There is a tweet from a media member stating that many members who didn't have votes just used Zach Lowe's ballots for their own votes.

This is exactly why media should not be able to vote on this. Too many people have a vote and they have no clue about what they're talking about.

I mean, that kind of reputation, you have to earn it tho. Even if he is influential, doesnt necessary mean, that what he stands for must be wrong.
Also tell me, who else should vote on the MVP?

Former players...

Could do the top 75.

It does not sit right with me that AllNBA selection and MVP is contract incentivised.

The media should not be able to dictate what you get paid.

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And former players arent biased by more trivial stuff like personal relationships? If they let one of NBAs greats, Scottie Pippen vote on the Goat, his vote is on anyone (even himself) but MJ because he is salty. Also many former Players are stupid. Do i want Kendrick Perkins, Ryan Hollins or Paul Pierce to vote on the MVP?

It doesnt make a difference to media people, and if you are mad, that 1 (in words "one") guy, ive never even heard of has more influence than people like Nick Wright, Stephen A or Skip Bayless, that should make you think about, how that guy probably has a point.

[AleksandarN]

Did he win it twice in a row? I don't think so.

Oh now you are changing the goal posts again. I am refuting the point you are making. Btw Moses won an MVP with a similar record than Jokic who was voting back then? It wasn't the media.

You not understanding my argument, is not me changing the goal posts lol. I always said, the issue was Jokic winning the MVP a second year in a row with an average record barely making the playoffs. Although I think Embiid deserved the MVP last year, I made my peace with him missing too many games.

One of anomaly MVP's aren't my issue. It's rewarding a player with an MVP when their second MVP is a worse seeding than their first year (back to back, not another MVP after a few years),when there was another player who was just as deserving, and had never won one.

You've also brought up the Moses argument before and I responded to that, check a few weeks ago to see what we said.

What is your argument against the media voting on MVP? When players in the past voted on MVP they voted for a player who didn't even make the playoffs.

[eyeatoma]

I mean, that kind of reputation, you have to earn it tho. Even if he is influential, doesnt necessary mean, that what he stands for must be wrong.
Also tell me, who else should vote on the MVP?

Former players...

Could do the top 75.

It does not sit right with me that AllNBA selection and MVP is contract incentivised.

The media should not be able to dictate what you get paid.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

And former players arent biased by more trivial stuff like personal relationships? If they let one of NBAs greats, Scottie Pippen vote on the Goat, his vote is on anyone (even himself) but MJ because he is salty. Also many former Players are stupid. Do i want Kendrick Perkins, Ryan Hollins or Paul Pierce to vote on the MVP?

It doesnt make a difference to media people, and if you are mad, that 1 (in words "one") guy, ive never even heard of has more influence than people like Nick Wright, Stephen A or Skip Bayless, that should make you think about, how that guy probably has a point.

Then include coaches and gms as well. Far better than the media deciding.

[eyeatoma]

Oh now you are changing the goal posts again. I am refuting the point you are making. Btw Moses won an MVP with a similar record than Jokic who was voting back then? It wasn't the media.

You not understanding my argument, is not me changing the goal posts lol. I always said, the issue was Jokic winning the MVP a second year in a row with an average record barely making the playoffs. Although I think Embiid deserved the MVP last year, I made my peace with him missing too many games.

One of anomaly MVP's aren't my issue. It's rewarding a player with an MVP when their second MVP is a worse seeding than their first year (back to back, not another MVP after a few years),when there was another player who was just as deserving, and had never won one.

You've also brought up the Moses argument before and I responded to that, check a few weeks ago to see what we said.

What is your argument against the media voting on MVP? When players in the past voted on MVP they voted for a player who didn't even make the playoffs.

I've said it before, the advanced stats trend has overtaken the media, and it is their sole focus. I'm fine with it being use just a little, but it's all that I've read over the last few years. NBA players have played the game, and are just as qualified to determine how valuable a player is to a team. Ofcourse there are going to be times where they don't get it right, and it's questionable, no system is perfect, but the current iteration is a little ridiculous. Especially as contracts are determined on this stuff.

[eyeatoma]

You really want former players voting for current league awards? Do you even realize how out of touch most retired players are? Even the ones getting paid to comment (*cough* Shaq and Barkley) are ridiculously inaccurate with so many of their takes.

There is no best answer here, but in a season with no clearly dominant team featuring a clearly dominant player, it comes down to numbers put up, games played, and context. Embiid had a strong case, too, as did Giannis.

So then mix it between 25-50% players, 25% media, 25% coaches/Gms. You could even make it 25% former players and 25% current players.

Basically media has far too much influence in this. It should be representative of the entire NBA community, and not just them. Balance is really important. This is incredibly lopsided at the moment.

[lautreamont]

Interesting how criteria for MVP seems to change over time. It used to be that you weren't seriously considered unless your team had one of the top records in the league. You just couldn't get the votes.

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't think it was all that hard of a choice. Jokic was statistically the most impressive, missed no games, had his 2nd and 3rd best players out, and the top 3 MVP candidates that separated from the crowd basically all won a similar amount of games.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

FAT GOAT taking down another big boy. Only a matter of time before people finna puttin' respek on his name.

[Gusto1903]

Interesting how criteria for MVP seems to change over time. It used to be that you weren't seriously considered unless your team had one of the top records in the league. You just couldn't get the votes.

Milwaukee, Philly and Denver were just 3 wins apart from each other. Whats your point? Its not like Denver had a borderline .500 Record. They got 48 Wins because Jokic carried his depleted roster.


PS: My question. What is the case for Embiid tho? All i hear is, that Jokic isnt deserving anything, because its not only about stats. Whats the Case for Embiid? Without comparing him to Jokic or Giannis.

[AleksandarN]

You not understanding my argument, is not me changing the goal posts lol. I always said, the issue was Jokic winning the MVP a second year in a row with an average record barely making the playoffs. Although I think Embiid deserved the MVP last year, I made my peace with him missing too many games.

One of anomaly MVP's aren't my issue. It's rewarding a player with an MVP when their second MVP is a worse seeding than their first year (back to back, not another MVP after a few years),when there was another player who was just as deserving, and had never won one.

You've also brought up the Moses argument before and I responded to that, check a few weeks ago to see what we said.

What is your argument against the media voting on MVP? When players in the past voted on MVP they voted for a player who didn't even make the playoffs.

I've said it before, the advanced stats trend has overtaken the media, and it is their sole focus. I'm fine with it being use just a little, but it's all that I've read over the last few years. NBA players have played the game, and are just as qualified to determine how valuable a player is to a team. Ofcourse there are going to be times where they don't get it right, and it's questionable, no system is perfect, but the current iteration is a little ridiculous. Especially as contracts are determined on this stuff.

Players have as much bias as media voters.

[bearadonisdna]

it just dawned on me that embiid won the scoring title.
It seems premium seeding and the scoring designation is usually enough to clinch,
but its a dangerous precedent that people are overvaluing other things that matter less.

So we got embiid , scoring titile and his team 2 games from the top seed and then jokic is 16 games behind and didnt even win his own division.

The aesthetics of this is just bad but there has been a precedent of people overvaluing things while disparaging or discrediting more key components.
Its like 2 different planets and how guys like gobert, draymond green and evan mobley get massively overrated.

recently makes me think if i even enjoy the nba product anymore.
when my team wins but plays a bad style of ball, i dis enjoy it.
People act how could i dislike my team winning. An artful game has become ugly to its core.

[AleksandarN]

Former players...

Could do the top 75.

It does not sit right with me that AllNBA selection and MVP is contract incentivised.

The media should not be able to dictate what you get paid.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

And former players arent biased by more trivial stuff like personal relationships? If they let one of NBAs greats, Scottie Pippen vote on the Goat, his vote is on anyone (even himself) but MJ because he is salty. Also many former Players are stupid. Do i want Kendrick Perkins, Ryan Hollins or Paul Pierce to vote on the MVP?

It doesnt make a difference to media people, and if you are mad, that 1 (in words "one") guy, ive never even heard of has more influence than people like Nick Wright, Stephen A or Skip Bayless, that should make you think about, how that guy probably has a point.

Then include coaches and gms as well. Far better than the media deciding.

Good because the GMs voted Jokic over Embiid based on last year.

[eyeatoma]

What is your argument against the media voting on MVP? When players in the past voted on MVP they voted for a player who didn't even make the playoffs.

I've said it before, the advanced stats trend has overtaken the media, and it is their sole focus. I'm fine with it being use just a little, but it's all that I've read over the last few years. NBA players have played the game, and are just as qualified to determine how valuable a player is to a team. Ofcourse there are going to be times where they don't get it right, and it's questionable, no system is perfect, but the current iteration is a little ridiculous. Especially as contracts are determined on this stuff.

Players have as much bias as media voters.

Hence balancing which I suggested above.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[eyeatoma]

it just dawned on me that embiid won the scoring title.
It seems premium seeding and the scoring designation is usually enough to clinch,
but its a dangerous precedent that people are overvaluing other things that matter less.

So we got embiid , scoring titile and his team 2 games from the top seed and then jokic is 16 games behind and didnt even win his own division.

The aesthetics of this is just bad but there has been a precedent of people overvaluing things while disparaging or discrediting more key components.
Its like 2 different planets and how guys like gobert, draymond green and evan mobley get massively overrated.

recently makes me think if i even enjoy the nba product anymore.
when my team wins but plays a bad style of ball, i dis enjoy it.
People act how could i dislike my team winning. An artful game has become ugly to its core.

This

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[AleksandarN]

it just dawned on me that embiid won the scoring title.
It seems premium seeding and the scoring designation is usually enough to clinch,
but its a dangerous precedent that people are overvaluing other things that matter less.

So we got embiid , scoring titile and his team 2 games from the top seed and then jokic is 16 games behind and didnt even win his own division.

The aesthetics of this is just bad but there has been a precedent of people overvaluing things while disparaging or discrediting more key components.
Its like 2 different planets and how guys like gobert, draymond green and evan mobley get massively overrated.

recently makes me think if i even enjoy the nba product anymore.
when my team wins but plays a bad style of ball, i dis enjoy it.
People act how could i dislike my team winning. An artful game has become ugly to its core.

Being a little intellectually dishonest here. lol How many games was the sixers behind the Suns in the overall standings?

[Gusto1903]

it just dawned on me that embiid won the scoring title.
It seems premium seeding and the scoring designation is usually enough to clinch,
but its a dangerous precedent that people are overvaluing other things that matter less.

So we got embiid , scoring titile and his team 2 games from the top seed and then jokic is 16 games behind and didnt even win his own division.

The aesthetics of this is just bad but there has been a precedent of people overvaluing things while disparaging or discrediting more key components.
Its like 2 different planets and how guys like gobert, draymond green and evan mobley get massively overrated.

recently makes me think if i even enjoy the nba product anymore.
when my team wins but plays a bad style of ball, i dis enjoy it.
People act how could i dislike my team winning. An artful game has become ugly to its core.

thats where the refreshing unique style of Nikola Jokic comes into play...

[bearadonisdna]

it just dawned on me that embiid won the scoring title.
It seems premium seeding and the scoring designation is usually enough to clinch,
but its a dangerous precedent that people are overvaluing other things that matter less.

So we got embiid , scoring titile and his team 2 games from the top seed and then jokic is 16 games behind and didnt even win his own division.

The aesthetics of this is just bad but there has been a precedent of people overvaluing things while disparaging or discrediting more key components.
Its like 2 different planets and how guys like gobert, draymond green and evan mobley get massively overrated.

recently makes me think if i even enjoy the nba product anymore.
when my team wins but plays a bad style of ball, i dis enjoy it.
People act how could i dislike my team winning. An artful game has become ugly to its core.

This

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

thanks man. its been an interesting discussion.

[AleksandarN]

You not understanding my argument, is not me changing the goal posts lol. I always said, the issue was Jokic winning the MVP a second year in a row with an average record barely making the playoffs. Although I think Embiid deserved the MVP last year, I made my peace with him missing too many games.

One of anomaly MVP's aren't my issue. It's rewarding a player with an MVP when their second MVP is a worse seeding than their first year (back to back, not another MVP after a few years),when there was another player who was just as deserving, and had never won one.

You've also brought up the Moses argument before and I responded to that, check a few weeks ago to see what we said.

What is your argument against the media voting on MVP? When players in the past voted on MVP they voted for a player who didn't even make the playoffs.

I've said it before, the advanced stats trend has overtaken the media, and it is their sole focus. I'm fine with it being use just a little, but it's all that I've read over the last few years. NBA players have played the game, and are just as qualified to determine how valuable a player is to a team. Ofcourse there are going to be times where they don't get it right, and it's questionable, no system is perfect, but the current iteration is a little ridiculous. Especially as contracts are determined on this stuff.

Here is some of your points why Embiid lost to Jokic

Media conspiracy
Race
Because Embiid hasn't won one yet not fair

The hits keep coming. What else you got?

[eyeatoma]

What is your argument against the media voting on MVP? When players in the past voted on MVP they voted for a player who didn't even make the playoffs.

I've said it before, the advanced stats trend has overtaken the media, and it is their sole focus. I'm fine with it being use just a little, but it's all that I've read over the last few years. NBA players have played the game, and are just as qualified to determine how valuable a player is to a team. Ofcourse there are going to be times where they don't get it right, and it's questionable, no system is perfect, but the current iteration is a little ridiculous. Especially as contracts are determined on this stuff.

Here is some of your points why Embiid lost to Jokic

Media
Race
Because Embiid hasn't won one yet not fair

What else you got?

Having one of the best seasons of all time and leading the league in scoring.

I sense a condescending and dismissive tone to what I've said as well as to Embiid's accomplishments. Let's not act like he didn't just have an all time great season.

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[AleksandarN]

I've said it before, the advanced stats trend has overtaken the media, and it is their sole focus. I'm fine with it being use just a little, but it's all that I've read over the last few years. NBA players have played the game, and are just as qualified to determine how valuable a player is to a team. Ofcourse there are going to be times where they don't get it right, and it's questionable, no system is perfect, but the current iteration is a little ridiculous. Especially as contracts are determined on this stuff.

Here is some of your points why Embiid lost to Jokic

Media
Race
Because Embiid hasn't won one yet not fair

What else you got?

Having one of the best seasons of all time and leading the league in scoring.

I sense a condescending and dismissive tone to what I've said as well as to Embiid's accomplishments. Let's not act like he didn't just have an all time great season.

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Jokic had an even greater season than Embiid had. What else you got?