2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 4: Who is the MVP?)

[Mr. Perfect]

Need SGA to win MVP and for Denver to slide to 8th seed for that first round matchup.

Make it happen basketball gods.

[AleksandarN]

2 bad turnovers for Jokic late and another loss vs a winning team

Great stats tho.

Watch the game

It was literally lost in the five minutes to start the 2nd and the 4th. When Jokic was on the bench…

Malone has to be fired at this point. He hasn’t figured out these minutes in years now judging by the on/off numbers. Yes the bench is trash but Malone doesn’t even try to run anything. Just puts the ball in Westbrooks hands and says a prayer.

If you think Malone's cluelessness is leading to the on/off numbers being so drastic that would imply Jokic isn't as impactful as the data is saying though yes?

Stop it. Those same on and off happened in the Olympics for team Serbia as well. What’s the common denominator? You try so hard to undermine Jokic it is crazy. Just enjoy your guy winning MVP.

Read on Twitter

[KGtabake]

My MVP is Jokic.
I know he won't win, i don't care.
SGA is Amazing, he deserves it too and he's here to stay for years to come.
Amazing race, kudos to Giannis as well(7th season in the row the guy will finish in the top4).
Finally, no Embiid like crybaby behaviours.
Congratulations to everyone.

[Jeremy Lin 7]

How can you honestly say SGA is better than Jokic.

The numbers don't lie
The eye test doesn't lie

Everyone is so focused on #1 seed, 60 wins etc. Take Jokic out of the Nuggets and they're a lottery team.

It's the Most VALUABLE player. Not the best player on the best team award

[MarcusBrody]

How can you honestly say SGA is better than Jokic.

The numbers don't lie
The eye test doesn't lie

Everyone is so focused on #1 seed, 60 wins etc. Take Jokic out of the Nuggets and they're a lottery team.

It's the Most VALUABLE player. Not the best player on the best team award

I understand this argument and am a giant Jokic fan/think he's the best player in the world.

All that said, I think Shai was so good this year that giving him the MVP is totally justified. He is a good defender, but I don't think people understand how much he elevates OKC's offense. Without him, they're still a good team, but very much amid the Western Conference mega-logjam. With him, they're the elite team in the league. Taking a team from good to great is hard and extremely valuable and a bit hard to compare to taking a team from kind of bad to good.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Correct, the numbers don't lie. Shai leads Joker in both expected and actual EPM. Shai also leads in LEBRON, Joker leads in LEBRON-WAR.

This idea that Jokic has an obviously greater impact this season isn't borne out by the stats.

I've been beating this drum all year and will keep doing so.

[scrabbarista]

I'd have it a tie today, with the tie-breaker of course going to SGA for wins. Jokic has been unreal offensively lately. Still expecting that at the end of the season, I'll be saying Jokic deserved it. We'll see.

[SpurNani]

How can you honestly say SGA is better than Jokic.

The numbers don't lie
The eye test doesn't lie

Everyone is so focused on #1 seed, 60 wins etc. Take Jokic out of the Nuggets and they're a lottery team.

It's the Most VALUABLE player. Not the best player on the best team award

Honestly when the Jokic fans have to resort to “take this guy off the team” hypothetical arguments, you know you’ve lost.

[SpurNani]

2 bad turnovers for Jokic late and another loss vs a winning team

Great stats tho.

Watch the game

It was literally lost in the five minutes to start the 2nd and the 4th. When Jokic was on the bench…

Yep. Nani's take was a pretty dishonest one. He's just grasping at reasons to not honor Jokic's historic season.

Hopefully Nuggets and Thunder stay on a collision course to meet in the postseason. That might be the only way we really get some sort of finality in who's more deserving.

HINT: They both are.

I watch damn near every Denver game for betting purposes, ive made alot of money off them this year and their all offense, no defense high scoring games. I had Ind/Den and Hou/GS on the telly and the contrast in defensive effort was stark.

Jokic was certainly the best player on the court and he’s honestly unstoppable at this point. He is also bad on defense and the higher paced teams like Ind will force him to run all night and by the end of the game, he was tired and committed two turnovers late in a close game. Didn’t say he was the reason they lost .

[AleksandarN]

How can you honestly say SGA is better than Jokic.

The numbers don't lie
The eye test doesn't lie

Everyone is so focused on #1 seed, 60 wins etc. Take Jokic out of the Nuggets and they're a lottery team.

It's the Most VALUABLE player. Not the best player on the best team award

Honestly when the Jokic fans have to resort to “take this guy off the team” hypothetical arguments, you know you’ve lost.

Fan? The guy rarely posts about Jokic compared to the rest. 90 percent of your total history is about hating on Jokic. I find it hilariously bad. Like you don’t post about anything really. So what alt account is this? What’s your main account. As a basketball fan in general I find it weird that you devote the majority of your posts on hating on a guy.

[Jeremy Lin 7]

How can you honestly say SGA is better than Jokic.

The numbers don't lie
The eye test doesn't lie

Everyone is so focused on #1 seed, 60 wins etc. Take Jokic out of the Nuggets and they're a lottery team.

It's the Most VALUABLE player. Not the best player on the best team award

Honestly when the Jokic fans have to resort to “take this guy off the team” hypothetical arguments, you know you’ve lost.

I'm calling it how it is. Joker is the better player performing THIS season. It's as simple as that. That's not a knock on SGA, I'm a big fan of his game. But Joker is on another level compared to SGA in terms of impact.

[SpurNani]

How can you honestly say SGA is better than Jokic.

The numbers don't lie
The eye test doesn't lie

Everyone is so focused on #1 seed, 60 wins etc. Take Jokic out of the Nuggets and they're a lottery team.

It's the Most VALUABLE player. Not the best player on the best team award

Honestly when the Jokic fans have to resort to “take this guy off the team” hypothetical arguments, you know you’ve lost.

Fan? The guy rarely posts about Jokic compared to the rest. 90 percent of your total history is about hating on Jokic. I find it hilariously bad. Like you don’t post about anything really. So what alt account is this? What’s your main account. As a basketball fan in general I find it weird that you devote the majority of your posts on hating on a guy.

Hating on a guy I've said numerously times is the best player in the game. Lol ok. This is probably the best MVP race in my lifetime and I am simply letting my opinion be heard. Sorry if I offended you with my takes.

Sorry I don't cry about Jamal Murray and make hateful posts about every other Nuggets player to prop Jokic up like he needs it. Sorry I am not making up hypothetical arguments where I take best players off their teams and try to compare hypothetical teams.

Sorry I don't ignore his bad poor effort defense. Sorry if I pushback on a guy being prematurely annointed as a top 10 player of all time when he doesn't have the playoff resume to back it.

Sorry. I look forward to when the playoffs come around and you make a another reactionary "Jokic is not that guy" thread like you did last year. Maybe we'll be on the same side of the argument then.

[AleksandarN]

Honestly when the Jokic fans have to resort to “take this guy off the team” hypothetical arguments, you know you’ve lost.

Fan? The guy rarely posts about Jokic compared to the rest. 90 percent of your total history is about hating on Jokic. I find it hilariously bad. Like you don’t post about anything really. So what alt account is this? What’s your main account. As a basketball fan in general I find it weird that you devote the majority of your posts on hating on a guy.

Hating on a guy I've said numerously times is the best player in the game. Lol ok. This is probably the best MVP race in my lifetime and I am simply letting my opinion be heard. Sorry if I offended you with my takes.

Sorry I don't cry about Jamal Murray and make hateful posts about every other Nuggets player to prop Jokic up like he needs it. Sorry I am not making up hypothetical arguments where I take best players off their teams and try to compare hypothetical teams.

Sorry I don't ignore his bad poor effort defense. Sorry if I pushback on a guy being prematurely annointed as a top 10 player of all time when he doesn't have the playoff resume to back it.

Sorry. I look forward to when the playoffs come around and you make an another reactionary "Jokic is not that guy" thread like you did last year. Maybe we'll be on the same side of the argument then.

I looked on your posting history I am not talking about this mvp race thread. You posted on almost all Jokic threads. You are consumed about your hatred. You even admitted that you are a hater in one of your post like 8 months ago

[SpurNani]

Fan? The guy rarely posts about Jokic compared to the rest. 90 percent of your total history is about hating on Jokic. I find it hilariously bad. Like you don’t post about anything really. So what alt account is this? What’s your main account. As a basketball fan in general I find it weird that you devote the majority of your posts on hating on a guy.

Hating on a guy I've said numerously times is the best player in the game. Lol ok. This is probably the best MVP race in my lifetime and I am simply letting my opinion be heard. Sorry if I offended you with my takes.

Sorry I don't cry about Jamal Murray and make hateful posts about every other Nuggets player to prop Jokic up like he needs it. Sorry I am not making up hypothetical arguments where I take best players off their teams and try to compare hypothetical teams.

Sorry I don't ignore his bad poor effort defense. Sorry if I pushback on a guy being prematurely annointed as a top 10 player of all time when he doesn't have the playoff resume to back it.

Sorry. I look forward to when the playoffs come around and you make an another reactionary "Jokic is not that guy" thread like you did last year. Maybe we'll be on the same side of the argument then.

I looked on your posting history I am not talking about this mvp race thread. You posted on almost all Jokic threads. You are consumed about your hatred. You even admitted that you are a hater in one of your post like 8 months ago

Every great players has haters. Take it as a compliment, im certainly not hating on Jusuf Nurkic.

[mtron929]

I still feel like Jokic already having 3 MVPs while Shai having 0 MVP is making a huge difference in this year's race. I mean, just do a reversal on the situation. Let's say that Shai is a 3 time MVP winning while Jokic has 0 MVP. Would you give Shai his 4th MVP this season or give Jokic his first MVP? The answer is clear. Most voters will vote for Jokic given that Shai has 3 MVPs already.

[SpurNani]

I still feel like Jokic already having 3 MVPs while Shai having 0 MVP is making a huge difference in this year's race. I mean, just do a reversal on the situation. Let's say that Shai is a 3 time MVP winning while Jokic has 0 MVP. Would you give Shai his 4th MVP this season or give Jokic his first MVP? The answer is clear. Most voters will vote for Jokic given that Shai has 3 MVPs already.

Another hypothetical argument.

Saying Shai won simply due to voter fatigue is disrespectful to his season. Why does it always have to be some major injustice if Jokic doesn't win it?

Jokic's team is in danger of falling to the play in tournament. Matter of fact, that is the most likely outcome with no Murray rest of the season. His dominance on the court simply hasn't translated to winning as much as Shai's. You can blame whoever you want those are the facts.

[mtron929]

I still feel like Jokic already having 3 MVPs while Shai having 0 MVP is making a huge difference in this year's race. I mean, just do a reversal on the situation. Let's say that Shai is a 3 time MVP winning while Jokic has 0 MVP. Would you give Shai his 4th MVP this season or give Jokic his first MVP? The answer is clear. Most voters will vote for Jokic given that Shai has 3 MVPs already.

Another hypothetical argument.

Saying Shai won simply due to voter fatigue is disrespectful to his season. Why does it always have to be some major injustice if Jokic doesn't win it?

Jokic's team is in danger of falling to the play in tournament. Matter of fact, that is the most likely outcome with no Murray rest of the season. His dominance on the court simply hasn't translated to winning as much as Shai's. You can blame whoever you want those are the facts.

My point is that MVP race in principle should just be about this year and nothing else. However, the past history is making a huge impact on everyone's assessment even though many people deny this to be the case.

[RRR3]

Jokic fans wondering why they're getting push back when they keep saying "Jokic has FAR more impact" than SGA is bizarre. Your opinion is not fact, the impact data says they have similar impact. If you think Jokic is far better that's fine but that is not a fact, it is an opinion.

[SpurNani]

Read on Twitter

Team is falling apart where is the leadership

[scrabbarista]

Read on Twitter

Team is falling apart where is the leadership

It's literally in the vid you posted. Jokic is keeping Watson focused at the end.