Nikola Jokic Shoves Markieff Morris After Morris's Foul; Both Ejected

[Jables]

I guess I'm going against the grain, but Jokic is an idiot here. He'll get suspended and what did he gain? Stupid macho **** when no one looks tough here, way to push someone in the back, and Morris overplayed it like a clown to get him in trouble, I don't care if he got a little bit of an elbow.

[Slim Charlez]

This era is so soft. Y’all really going back and forth over a damn Shove? Bball fans all over the world talking as if the Malace and the palace part 2 happened last night. Get over yourselves!

It was stuff I'd see in my local park on the daily. You can tell a lot of people in here never came outside.

So y’all had that happen and there was no fighting?

not in the dmv...no one hits someone like that at our parks or gyms and expects people to be cool with it....unless they bullying you. And then it’s an actual threat vailed in a basketball play...

Some ended in fist fights, more often than not just shoving matches, people hardly ever took it personal because that's what happens sometimes in the heat of battle, Still the way some are talking about serious injuries, and cheap shots, just over the top rhetoric over something so minor. it's so cringe.

[Mikistan]

I guess I'm going against the grain, but Jokic is an idiot here. He'll get suspended and what did he gain? Stupid macho **** when no one looks tough here, way to push someone in the back, and Morris overplayed it like a clown to get him in trouble, I don't care if he got a little bit of an elbow.

Agreed which is why jokic apologized after.

[nate33]

So if it occurs during game play regardless of how dirty a foul is its part of the game and acceptable? Morris did try to hurt/injure Jokic with 2 minutes left in a game that was out of reach. Maybe if he wasn't a spineless coward he would have confronted Jokic instead of blindsided him.

Dude I get that you don't like Morris. I'm not particularly fond of him. I love me some Jokic passing.

Bottom line is Jokic was wrong. You cant body slam people clearly after the play. Lol. What is so hard to grasp about this?

I watched Morris hit again. It was an intentional foul to stop a 5v4. Yeah he hit him hard, but it is a basketball play. We see it all the time. Body slamming guys after the whistle, well, we don't see that every day.

Jokic was wrong. They need to slam him and make an example and hopefully we don't see it again.

Like mentioned before maybe a look at an instigstor type rule would be nice for the refs to have in their pockets.



Sent from my SM-G998U using RealGM mobile app

It's quite obvious what Jokic did was wrong. That doesn't mean what Morris did was right. They were both in the wrong except one of them was retaliating from a clear injury/hurt attempt.

Exactly. Nobody is suggesting that Jokic wasn't wrong. They're merely suggesting that Jokic's reaction was natural in the heat of the moment against a flagrant and unnecessary cheapshot that could have seriously injured him. At least his response was commensurate. He didn't punch him in the back of the head or anything. He just body checked him with equivalent force.

[Sedale Threatt]

I also have to say that I am disgusted by this statement: "You might deem that maybe as a little bit more than just slapping somebody, but after watching it on film, it was a take foul. That's how I saw it. And the play after, that's just absolutely uncalled for."

Coaches not calling Morris' bros' crap for what it is, is pretty much enabling and encouraging them to do it again.

If that’s Spoelstra, he’s in an impossible position. Even if he doesn’t believe what he’s saying, he’s got to have his guy’s back or he’s taking a big risk with the locker room. So pretty much every coach is going to say that.

I'd like someone to put that exact same hit on Bam next game, and see if Spo still thinks its just a take foul.

Well of course. Then he’s got to stand up for his guy again, just from a different perspective. I’ll rail against Morris all day long but pretty much every coach is going to say what Spoelstra did. Just part of the game. Look at Ben Simmons as a worst case scenario of what happens when you’re honest instead of loyal.

[G R E Y]

This thread just goes to show how much likeability plays into the reaction.

Taking names out of it, what I see is Player X giving Player Y a bad elbow to the ribs (and making contact with Player Y's knee) that should have been a Flagrant. Then Player Y gets angry and gives him a full force forearm shot to the back. Like Player X's reaction to the hit may have been over the top at points, but he didn't flop when he got hit. There was a lot of force in that hit.

To me what Player Y did was worse, even though I get he didn't fire the first shot. The reaction was disproportionate to the foul he received.

Then when you replace the names to Morris, a known **** and a half (the fact he's brother is an even bigger one doesn't help him, but still), and Jokic, a guy who is almost universally liked, the narrative becomes different.

But it doesn't really portray a better lens through which to look at the incident if it's so devoid of context. People dislike Morris M&M because of their long and continuing history of dirty non-basketball aggressiveness, and their at times pretending the fool like they didn't do anything wrong or on purpose, and acting tough afterwards (SM posts). The accretion of grievances and finally getting some just desserts is what people mostly seem to be responding to. Jokic is likeable like Giannis is, a down-to-earth guy who is a great talent and is fun to watch even for fans of other teams.

I do think that likeability has some effect on the extent of the reactions, even if that likeability (or lack of it) stems from a player's pattern of behaviour.

But if the situations were reversed and Jokic were historically the very dirty player and Morris were the blue-collar sub who lost it and the fouls and sequences were the same, I believe that the reactions would be different. It would be people siding with Morris for finally standing up against a big bad guy even if the play was dirty.

You can't take out the earned player reputations because it's a nuance that affects who fans side with and why. That's not justifying Jokic's retaliation, but it does make people shrug and go, yeah, Morris had it coming:

This interview snippet is great but the pertinent part here starts at 3:25

Watch on YouTube

[kulaz3000]

I guess I'm going against the grain, but Jokic is an idiot here. He'll get suspended and what did he gain? Stupid macho **** when no one looks tough here, way to push someone in the back, and Morris overplayed it like a clown to get him in trouble, I don't care if he got a little bit of an elbow.

I think people are underestimating the Morris elbow to his ribs. Jokic is almost 300 pounds, and he got pushed back significantly, that isn't a "bit" of an elbow. Just because he didn't drop to the ground or flail around like some players would, and just coped it, doesn't mean it wasn't a substantial hit.

And you're wrong that he didn't gain anything, when you take the hits and just cope it, you know what happens, other players see, and they do the same, and you end up getting the reputation of someone who can be pushed around. Sometimes you need to retaliate and hit back to show that if a player is going to be extra physical with him, he will dish it back at them, that's the best take away for me.

Good for him.

[everdiso]

Morris: super dirty play + cowardly fake reaction

Jokic: justified, honest, strong reaction

[JimmyPlopper]

My favorite sports are basketball and college wrestling. Let's combine them

[G R E Y]

I am suspending Morris for THREE games. How is that not a material penalty?

Jokic gets the longer suspension because it was AFTER THE WHISTLE. Don't you get that? Huh?

Physical altercations during stoppage time MUST be punished more severely. Right?

I should have known better to get into it with Jokic fanboys on the GB. Damn.

You're being overly punitive/dramatic on this. Morris doesn't deserve 3 games for this.

Ibaka chocked a guy and pounded him with his fist and got 3 games. That's your measurement stick.

Morris will get 1 game or big fine, Joker will get 1-2 games, call it a day.

I don't disagree with you. I am merely responding to the Jokic fanboys who refuse to acknowledge that 1) hard, flagrant fouls WHILE THE CLOCK IS RUNNING happen in the NBA; and 2) cheap shots AFTER THE WHISTLE have NO PLACE in the NBA.

Jokic should get penalized significantly more than Morris. I will be disappointed if that is not the case. The NBA does NOT want stop-action brawls on the court. I am sure Adam Silver was not happy to see a STRETCHER being brought on the court because Jokic acted like a knucklehead.

No sorry the clock running thing is a red herring that you argue against by pointing out the flagrant foul for - things that have no place in the game. It's been pointed out time and again. It's a strange single thread of several woven into affecting the decision to toss both players out.

Be sure that Morris' history of ON COURT WHILE THE CLOCK IS RUNNING behaviour will be a factor in the NBA making its decisions here. Behaviour patterns matter in game, after the whistle, all of it. And if a player accumulates enough of these even during games when the clock is running he gets stiffer punishments over time.

[bbalnation]

This thread just goes to show how much likeability plays into the reaction.

Taking names out of it, what I see is Player X giving Player Y a bad elbow to the ribs (and making contact with Player Y's knee) that should have been a Flagrant. Then Player Y gets angry and gives him a full force forearm shot to the back. Like Player X's reaction to the hit may have been over the top at points, but he didn't flop when he got hit. There was a lot of force in that hit.

To me what Player Y did was worse, even though I get he didn't fire the first shot. The reaction was disproportionate to the foul he received.

Then when you replace the names to Morris, a known **** and a half (the fact he's brother is an even bigger one doesn't help him, but still), and Jokic, a guy who is almost universally liked, the narrative becomes different.

But it doesn't really portray a better lens through which to look at the incident if it's so devoid of context. People dislike Morris M&M because of their long and continuing history of dirty non-basketball aggressiveness, and their at times pretending the fool like they didn't do anything wrong or on purpose, and acting tough afterwards (SM posts). The accretion of grievances and finally getting some just desserts is what people mostly seem to be responding to. Jokic is likeable like Giannis is, a down-to-earth guy who is a great talent and is fun to watch even for fans of other teams.

I do think that likeability has some effect on the extent of the reactions, even if that likeability (or lack of it) stems from a player's pattern of behaviour.

But if the situations were reversed and Jokic were historically the very dirty player and Morris were the blue-collar sub who lost it and the fouls and sequences were the same, I believe that the reactions would be different. It would be people siding with Morris for finally standing up against a big bad guy even if the play was dirty.

You can't take out the earned player reputations because it's a nuance that affects who fans side with and why. That's not justifying Jokic's retaliation, but it does make people shrug and go, yeah, Morris had it coming:

This interview snippet is great but the pertinent part here starts at 3:25

Watch on YouTube

Bill Lambeer was out there knowingly trying to hurt players, usually taking risks on the long term careers of players. He was really trying to hurt guys. Thats literally what the Jordan rules were.

You may not be comparing them, but a lot of posters would and they're VERY different imo. Markieff is trying to get under peoples skins & play the system/refs, not hurt them long term (at least thats what I've seen). Theres dirty/unsportsmanlike... but i think there are levels to it. Its a range/spectrum.

I dont think Markieff reaches "this guy deserves to get injured" on that "dirty player spectrum". Then again, I also don't think there are many who really do fit that description... why would I knowingly and actively carry that type of animosity for someone?

Two wrongs dont make a right, etc etc. But Markieff himself throughout his career hasn't actually done as much as you'd think compared to the amount of hate he's getting (compared to say... Coach Bill Lambeer!).

[Black Jack]

Morris: super dirty play + cowardly fake reaction

Jokic: justified, honest, strong reaction

Yeah plus Morris hitting the guy then turning his back was really stupid.

I do feel Morris was hamming it up. He got hit but it didn't look THAT hard of a hit. NFL players take hits like that all the time, and it wasn't to his head. Maybe a little stunned by the whiplash but cmon, he was definitely trying for ref sympathy on the floor.

[Pharmcat]

Markieff deserved every bit of that. What a little bitch.

Actually the “b****” move is to attack someone whose not even looking at you. Real men don’t do that

[wraith985]

Markieff deserved every bit of that. What a little bitch.

Actually the “b****” move is to attack someone whose not even looking at you. Real men don’t do that

Oh, so like what Morris did right?

[Mickey8]

Markieff deserved every bit of that. What a little bitch.

Actually the “b****” move is to attack someone whose not even looking at you. Real men don’t do that

A b...h move is to attack somebody's already injured knee and try to put him out of the court, unprovoked , Morris started it, Morris deserved punishment.

[sjballer03]

Markieff deserved every bit of that. What a little bitch.

Actually the “b****” move is to attack someone whose not even looking at you. Real men don’t do that

The real bitch move is to cheapshot someone and then turn around right after so when they retaliate you look like the victim.

It was a only couple seconds after Morris' foul that Jokic reacted. What's he supposed to do? Say "Please sir can you turn around so I may respond in kind?"

[G R E Y]

This thread just goes to show how much likeability plays into the reaction.

Taking names out of it, what I see is Player X giving Player Y a bad elbow to the ribs (and making contact with Player Y's knee) that should have been a Flagrant. Then Player Y gets angry and gives him a full force forearm shot to the back. Like Player X's reaction to the hit may have been over the top at points, but he didn't flop when he got hit. There was a lot of force in that hit.

To me what Player Y did was worse, even though I get he didn't fire the first shot. The reaction was disproportionate to the foul he received.

Then when you replace the names to Morris, a known **** and a half (the fact he's brother is an even bigger one doesn't help him, but still), and Jokic, a guy who is almost universally liked, the narrative becomes different.

But it doesn't really portray a better lens through which to look at the incident if it's so devoid of context. People dislike Morris M&M because of their long and continuing history of dirty non-basketball aggressiveness, and their at times pretending the fool like they didn't do anything wrong or on purpose, and acting tough afterwards (SM posts). The accretion of grievances and finally getting some just desserts is what people mostly seem to be responding to. Jokic is likeable like Giannis is, a down-to-earth guy who is a great talent and is fun to watch even for fans of other teams.

I do think that likeability has some effect on the extent of the reactions, even if that likeability (or lack of it) stems from a player's pattern of behaviour.

But if the situations were reversed and Jokic were historically the very dirty player and Morris were the blue-collar sub who lost it and the fouls and sequences were the same, I believe that the reactions would be different. It would be people siding with Morris for finally standing up against a big bad guy even if the play was dirty.

You can't take out the earned player reputations because it's a nuance that affects who fans side with and why. That's not justifying Jokic's retaliation, but it does make people shrug and go, yeah, Morris had it coming:

This interview snippet is great but the pertinent part here starts at 3:25

Watch on YouTube

Bill Lambeer was out there knowingly trying to hurt players, usually taking risks on the long term careers of players. He was really trying to hurt guys. Thats literally what the Jordan rules were.

You may not be comparing them, but a lot of posters would and they're VERY different imo. Markieff is trying to get under peoples skins & play the system/refs, not hurt them long term (at least thats what I've seen). Theres dirty/unsportsmanlike... but i think there are levels to it. Its a range/spectrum.

I dont think Markieff reaches "this guy deserves to get injured" on that "dirty player spectrum". Then again, I also don't think there are many who really do fit that description... why would I knowingly and actively carry that type of animosity for someone?

Two wrongs dont make a right, etc etc. But Markieff himself throughout his career hasn't actually done as much as you'd think compared to the amount of hate he's getting (compared to say... Coach Bill Lambeer!).

Maybe. And I do agree that Laimbeer was in his own tier. Bird in the clip above attests to the fact that Laimbeer would try to injure players, and there's a longer video from a Pistons player who was traded and then admitted that pre-game Laimbeer said in the locker room he wanted to injure guys during the I believe Celtics-Pistons series (the one where he clobbered Bird and they both got ejected).

I think we also have to be careful about not conflating 'didn't get injured' with 'not intending to injure'. Morris hits Jokic's ribs below the arm and knee from the side - his leg was up into it. If this isn't intending to injure, then the best thing you can say about it is he doesn't care if Jokic is injured and that's a sliver of a distinction. If Jokic weren't 7' and 280lbs perhaps the outcome would have been different. Yet even at that size he went flying back from the momentum of the impact.

His idiot twin targeted Luka curling from behind and stepping on the back of Doncic's heel. Again, not a basketball play, intentional to stop a player in a physical non-basketball way and if the player gets hurt, oh well...

In both instances they targeted the best player on the opposing team. That there's no play on the ball but a full play on the body shows at the very least a blatant disregard for the consequences of the action. And frankly if the player is injured and a Morris gets suspended, then a Morris team has an advantage. They know it. So ok, not Laimbeer tier, but closer to him than the other end of the spectrum.

[wraith985]

Markieff deserved every bit of that. What a little bitch.

Actually the “b****” move is to attack someone whose not even looking at you. Real men don’t do that

The real bitch move is to cheapshot someone and then turn around right after so when they retaliate you look like the victim.

It was milliseconds after Morris' foul that Jokic reacted. What's he supposed to do? "Please sir can you turn around so may respond?"

Exactly. Don't start none, won't be none. Acting like you can just walk away after blindsiding someone, foh man.

[LakerLegend]

Keep swiping right

[bbalnation]

But it doesn't really portray a better lens through which to look at the incident if it's so devoid of context. People dislike Morris M&M because of their long and continuing history of dirty non-basketball aggressiveness, and their at times pretending the fool like they didn't do anything wrong or on purpose, and acting tough afterwards (SM posts). The accretion of grievances and finally getting some just desserts is what people mostly seem to be responding to. Jokic is likeable like Giannis is, a down-to-earth guy who is a great talent and is fun to watch even for fans of other teams.

I do think that likeability has some effect on the extent of the reactions, even if that likeability (or lack of it) stems from a player's pattern of behaviour.

But if the situations were reversed and Jokic were historically the very dirty player and Morris were the blue-collar sub who lost it and the fouls and sequences were the same, I believe that the reactions would be different. It would be people siding with Morris for finally standing up against a big bad guy even if the play was dirty.

You can't take out the earned player reputations because it's a nuance that affects who fans side with and why. That's not justifying Jokic's retaliation, but it does make people shrug and go, yeah, Morris had it coming:

This interview snippet is great but the pertinent part here starts at 3:25

Watch on YouTube

Bill Lambeer was out there knowingly trying to hurt players, usually taking risks on the long term careers of players. He was really trying to hurt guys. Thats literally what the Jordan rules were.

You may not be comparing them, but a lot of posters would and they're VERY different imo. Markieff is trying to get under peoples skins & play the system/refs, not hurt them long term (at least thats what I've seen). Theres dirty/unsportsmanlike... but i think there are levels to it. Its a range/spectrum.

I dont think Markieff reaches "this guy deserves to get injured" on that "dirty player spectrum". Then again, I also don't think there are many who really do fit that description... why would I knowingly and actively carry that type of animosity for someone?

Two wrongs dont make a right, etc etc. But Markieff himself throughout his career hasn't actually done as much as you'd think compared to the amount of hate he's getting (compared to say... Coach Bill Lambeer!).

Maybe. And I do agree that Laimbeer was in his own tier. Bird in the clip above attests to the fact that Laimbeer would try to injury players, and there's a longer video from a Pistons player who was traded and then admitted that pre-game Laimbeer said in the locker room he wanted to injure guys during the I believe Celtics-Pistons series (the one where he clobbered Bird and they both got ejected).

I we also have to be careful about not conflating 'didn't get injured' with 'not intending to injure'. Morris hits Jokic's ribs below the arm and nee from the side - his leg was up into it. If this isn't intending to injure, then the best thing you can say about it is he doesn't care if Jokic is injured and that's a slither of a distinction. If Jokic weren't 7' and 280lbs perhaps the outcome would have been different. Yet even at that size he went flying back from the momentum of the impact.

His idiot twin targeted Luka curling from behind and stepping on the back of Doncic's heel. Again, not a basketball play, intentional to stop a player in a physical non-basketball way and if the player gets hurt, oh well...

In both instances they targeted the best player on the opposing team. That there's no play on the ball but a full play on the body shows at the very least a blatant disregard for the consequences of the action. And frankly if the player is injured and a Morris gets suspended, then a Morris team has an advantage. They know it. So ok, not Laimbeer tier, but closer to him than the other end of the spectrum.

Do you have a sibling? Parent? Friend? Loved one?

Hes not responsible for the actions of his brother.

As for the play itself: you're not wrong. It wasn't clean. It was more dirty than not. He was frustrated. But was it worthy of 45 pages of "good, he deserves an injury and more, etc"?