NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[AleksandarN]

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[Hello Brooklyn]

“Jokic d-riders” like he’s some scrub people are trying to artificially pump by just numbers. lol

Anyone who watches Denver sees his impact on every offensive possession that Denver plays. The powerful screens and the secondary actions. Leading guys to the right spot just with his eyes sometimes. It’s all on display and Jokic is orchestrating it all.

It’s his consistency that should be most celebrated though. He just doesn’t seem to have bad games.

Jokic should not be a 3 time MVP winner period.

Nobody saying hes not an impact player.

Thank you for the emotional response.

Logic will usually prevail over emotion though.

People need to emotionally detach themselves from their preconceived notions of Joker at this point and use the eye test and the numbers as a guide. There is not a single more impactful player on the offensive end.

Emotions?

As if I have some personal vendetta against Jokic.

Only one here emotional seems to be you and the Jokic stans.

He is not the "most impactful" player on the offensive end.

Last time we saw him in a playoff series he was outplayed by Curry. The year before by Devin Booker. And 2 years ago by Anthony Davis.

[Pistol_Pete]

Joker is playing better than everybody at the moment. Still a long season, but he’s definitely #1 right now. We’ll see in 40 games

[_NoMas]

Youre right winning doesn't matter at all!!!

Lets just look at stats.

You nerds have ruined basketball low key.

TEAMS win. Players play, some better than others. Some a LOT better than others.

But you’re right, team success is all that matters for individual awards!!!

Let’s just look at team records.

You shallow-thinking idiots have ruined basketball low key (whatever tf that means).

Team success always matters to individual awards. Look at the history of MVP winners.

Its not a who has the best stats award. Get a clue.

This is 100% true, and I’m bored of the statsheads claiming it should be all about the numbers. Where your argument falls down is you’re making it sound like Jokic is some empty stats merchant on a .500 team. We both agree the individual stats aren’t even close between Tatum and Jokic, and here is the team records when they play:

Tatum: 26-11
Jokic: 25-11

I don’t know about you, but sure doesn’t feel like enough of a gap to claim Tatum is above Jokic in MVP.
I’m high on Tatum though, dudes becoming underrated on these forums, but he just isn’t on Jokics level (or Lukas).

[Hello Brooklyn]

TEAMS win. Players play, some better than others. Some a LOT better than others.

But you’re right, team success is all that matters for individual awards!!!

Let’s just look at team records.

You shallow-thinking idiots have ruined basketball low key (whatever tf that means).

Team success always matters to individual awards. Look at the history of MVP winners.

Its not a who has the best stats award. Get a clue.

This is 100% true, and I’m bored of the statsheads claiming it should be all about the numbers. Where your argument falls down is you’re making it sound like Jokic is some empty stats merchant on a .500 team. We both agree the individual stats aren’t even close between Tatum and Jokic, and here is the team records when they play:

Tatum: 26-11
Jokic: 25-11

I don’t know about you, but sure doesn’t feel like enough of a gap to claim Tatum is above Jokic in MVP.
I’m high on Tatum though, dudes becoming underrated on these forums, but he just isn’t on Jokics level (or Lukas).

Well we were arguing in the abstract.

I said I would give the slight edge to Tatum. Based on better defense and record.

Tatum took his team to the Finals. Jokic flames out every year. And the one year he had a legit chance he got destroyed by Anthony Davis.

I don't see how Tatum is not on Jokic's level at all.

[Exp0sed]

Jokic should not be a 3 time MVP winner period.

Nobody saying hes not an impact player.

.

Emotions?

As if I have some personal vendetta against Jokic.

Only one here emotional seems to be you and the Jokic stans.

He is not the "most impactful" player on the offensive end.

Last time we saw him in a playoff series he was outplayed by Curry. The year before by Devin Booker. And 2 years ago by Anthony Davis.

lol @ outplayed by Curry

Jokic was playing with a g-league squad and 100% of defensive attention was on him
in that series:

Curry - 28 Pts \ 5.4 AST \ 3.4 Reb \ 1.6 STL \ 0.4 BLK \ 50% from the field \ 64% TS
Jokic - 31 PTS \ 5.8 AST \ 13.2 Reb \ 1.6 STL \ 1 BLK \ 58% from the field \ 64 TS%

GSW best scorers after Curry - Klay 22.6 on 64 TS%, Poole 21 on 71 (!) TS%, Wiggins 14 on 60%

Den best scorers after Jokic - Monte Morris 14 62 TS%, Barton 13.8 on 50 TS%, Gordon 13.8 on 52 TS%

the Dubs dominated the Warriors and outplayed them as a team (no suprise there)
Curry absoultely did NOT outplay Jokic in that series

that's proprestrous, you must be trolling

[Hello Brooklyn]

.

Emotions?

As if I have some personal vendetta against Jokic.

Only one here emotional seems to be you and the Jokic stans.

He is not the "most impactful" player on the offensive end.

Last time we saw him in a playoff series he was outplayed by Curry. The year before by Devin Booker. And 2 years ago by Anthony Davis.

lol @ outplayed by Curry

Jokic was playing with a g-league squad and 100% of defensive attention was on him
in that series:

Curry - 28 Pts \ 5.4 AST \ 3.4 Reb \ 1.6 STL \ 0.4 BLK \ 50% from the field \ 64% TS
Jokic - 31 PTS \ 5.8 AST \ 13.2 Reb \ 1.6 STL \ 1 BLK \ 58% from the field \ 64 TS%

GSW best scorers after Curry - Klay 22.6 on 64 TS%, Poole 21 on 71 (!) TS%, Wiggins 14 on 60%

Den best scorers after Jokic - Monte Morris 14 62 TS%, Barton 13.8 on 50 TS%, Gordon 13.8 on 52 TS%

the Dubs dominated the Warriors and outplayed them as a team (no suprise there)
Curry absoultely did NOT outplay Jokic in that series

that's proprestrous, you must be trolling

Here comes the excuses for Jokic.

Curry was the best player in that series for anyone who watched.

And what are you excuses in the 2 playoffs prior?

Notice how you conveniently left them out of your argument.

[Exp0sed]

Emotions?

As if I have some personal vendetta against Jokic.

Only one here emotional seems to be you and the Jokic stans.

He is not the "most impactful" player on the offensive end.

Last time we saw him in a playoff series he was outplayed by Curry. The year before by Devin Booker. And 2 years ago by Anthony Davis.

lol @ outplayed by Curry

Jokic was playing with a g-league squad and 100% of defensive attention was on him
in that series:

Curry - 28 Pts \ 5.4 AST \ 3.4 Reb \ 1.6 STL \ 0.4 BLK \ 50% from the field \ 64% TS
Jokic - 31 PTS \ 5.8 AST \ 13.2 Reb \ 1.6 STL \ 1 BLK \ 58% from the field \ 64 TS%

GSW best scorers after Curry - Klay 22.6 on 64 TS%, Poole 21 on 71 (!) TS%, Wiggins 14 on 60%

Den best scorers after Jokic - Monte Morris 14 62 TS%, Barton 13.8 on 50 TS%, Gordon 13.8 on 52 TS%

the Dubs dominated the Warriors and outplayed them as a team (no suprise there)
Curry absoultely did NOT outplay Jokic in that series

that's proprestrous, you must be trolling

Here comes the excuses for Jokic.

Curry was the best player in that series for anyone who watched.

And what are you excuses in the 2 playoffs prior?

Notice how you conveniently left them out of your argument.

lol, now u speak for "everyone"?
that's funny cuz most fans won't agree with u
Jokic was clearly better (individually)

I didn't leave out anything, i wasn't gonna spend 10 mins looking up and writing stats\recaps of the two previous seasons

we all know what happened and it's not what you claim happened

[moderndarwin]

Give it to Steph. His sidelines contagious enthusiasm and supporting them got them all the way up to 6th.

Also that poster is delusional. Steph spanked Jokic when it mattered that series. He iso on him repetitively and made Joker into a joke.

[Hello Brooklyn]

lol @ outplayed by Curry

Jokic was playing with a g-league squad and 100% of defensive attention was on him
in that series:

Curry - 28 Pts \ 5.4 AST \ 3.4 Reb \ 1.6 STL \ 0.4 BLK \ 50% from the field \ 64% TS
Jokic - 31 PTS \ 5.8 AST \ 13.2 Reb \ 1.6 STL \ 1 BLK \ 58% from the field \ 64 TS%

GSW best scorers after Curry - Klay 22.6 on 64 TS%, Poole 21 on 71 (!) TS%, Wiggins 14 on 60%

Den best scorers after Jokic - Monte Morris 14 62 TS%, Barton 13.8 on 50 TS%, Gordon 13.8 on 52 TS%

the Dubs dominated the Warriors and outplayed them as a team (no suprise there)
Curry absoultely did NOT outplay Jokic in that series

that's proprestrous, you must be trolling

Here comes the excuses for Jokic.

Curry was the best player in that series for anyone who watched.

And what are you excuses in the 2 playoffs prior?

Notice how you conveniently left them out of your argument.

lol, now u speak for "everyone"?
that's funny cuz most fans won't agree with u
Jokic was clearly better (individually)

I didn't leave out anything, i wasn't gonna spend 10 mins looking up and writing stats\recaps of the two previous seasons

we all know what happened and it's not what you claim happened

You didn't look up those series because it was beyond obvious Jokic got outplayed.

[Exp0sed]

Here comes the excuses for Jokic.

Curry was the best player in that series for anyone who watched.

And what are you excuses in the 2 playoffs prior?

Notice how you conveniently left them out of your argument.

lol, now u speak for "everyone"?
that's funny cuz most fans won't agree with u
Jokic was clearly better (individually)

I didn't leave out anything, i wasn't gonna spend 10 mins looking up and writing stats\recaps of the two previous seasons

we all know what happened and it's not what you claim happened

You didn't look up those series because it was beyond obvious Jokic got outplayed.

you can believe what u want

I didn't look those up cuz ur trolling and also because I didn't wanna derail the thread further, this has little to do with the MVP discussion

fwiw, when teams lose a playoff series - their best player sometimes gets outplayed
did Tatum have a bad playoffs just because he was outplayed in the finals?

Booker did not outplay Jokic, the Suns were much better tho
that's how it is when on ur own against several stars

AD did outplay Jokic, that's 100% true
AD is an MVP candidate when healthy and bubble AD with rest and shooting in an open gym was an all-time great haha

because ur trolling ur gonna ignore the fact that Jokic led the Nuggets to the WCF when no one expected them to get there. and yeah, they ran into the best team in the bubble (by far)

ur gonna act as if AD having this little unknown rookie named LBJ by "his side" is inconsequential? gtfo with that bull haha

after a couple of grueling (and incredible) playoff series, the overachieveing (relative to their poor roster) Nuggets ran into the eventual champion who just happened to have LBJ and prime healthy AD

in 2 of these 3 the Nuggets lost to the eventual champion and PHX went to the finals and was up 2-0 on the eventual champion

not gonna respond further, this thread isn't the place for this discussion and i'm like 99% sure ur trolling anyway

[Exp0sed]

Give it to Steph. His sidelines contagious enthusiasm and supporting them got them all the way up to 6th.

Also that poster is delusional. Steph spanked Jokic when it mattered that series. He iso on him repetitively and made Joker into a joke.

2 first games the Nuggets had no answer for the Dubs perimiter game
it wasn't Steph in particular but he sure did have some nice highlights as well
you'd be hard pressed finding teams that Curry didn't "spank" over the past decade
best players in history tend to that to ya

for the series, Jokic had more total point, more PPG, more Assists on better efficiency
so i guess Jokic spanked Curry back and gave more than he got?

yes, the series was never in question (and that was obvious before it began)
the Dubs were the best team in the league (even if most of us hadn't realized it at the time) and the Nuggets were one of the worst teams in the league + MVP Jokic who got them single handedly to 6th seed but obviously they were no match for the Dubs

Jokic is the best offensive player in the league, even if Curry did pick on him and cook him (he did) - that's not his strong suit anyway, so ur being very disingenious

it's like saying: "damn Jokic cooked Curry on the boards, had 10 RPG more than him, made him look like a midget"

[BelgradeNugget]

“Jokic d-riders” like he’s some scrub people are trying to artificially pump by just numbers. lol

Anyone who watches Denver sees his impact on every offensive possession that Denver plays. The powerful screens and the secondary actions. Leading guys to the right spot just with his eyes sometimes. It’s all on display and Jokic is orchestrating it all.

It’s his consistency that should be most celebrated though. He just doesn’t seem to have bad games.

Jokic should not be a 3 time MVP winner period.

Nobody saying hes not an impact player.

Problem is not in Jokic's stats, his wins, people voting for MVP or criteria...problem is in your head, and it is not something new regarding Jokic. Anyone but him, we already saw it.

[Duke4life831]

I feel like some may still not understand what this award is about. It’s not a career legacy award, it’s not a total accumulation of what you’ve done in the last 5 years award. It’s not a past playoff MVP award. Hell it’s not even the “who’s the current best player” award. It’s the 2022-2023 regular season most valuable player award.

I get some may not like the idea of a guy winning 3 MVPs before he wins a ring. Guess what that really doesn’t matter. Again the award is who has been the most valuable player for this current regular season.

I’m all for someone not having Jokic as the MVP so far. But if you’re bringing up past seasons/playoffs failures as your argument for why he’s not this season’s MVP. You’re making a very weak and pointless argument.

[Sgt Major]

If he wins a ring, the same people who constantly blabber about losing a playoff series to a fully-stacked GSW team will continue to spout nonsense and ask why couldn't he beat Curry, Klay and Green with Facundo Campazzo and Will Barton in the starting unit.

It's just nonsense that shouldn't be responded to with a single reply.

[Richard Miller]

I feel like some may still not understand what this award is about. It’s not a career legacy award, it’s not a total accumulation of what you’ve done in the last 5 years award. It’s not a past playoff MVP award. Hell it’s not even the “who’s the current best player” award. It’s the 2022-2023 regular season most valuable player award.

This should be pinned on every page of the topic

[Sharkboy242]

Jokic should not be a 3 time MVP winner period.

Nobody saying hes not an impact player.

Thank you for the emotional response.

Logic will usually prevail over emotion though.

People need to emotionally detach themselves from their preconceived notions of Joker at this point and use the eye test and the numbers as a guide. There is not a single more impactful player on the offensive end.

Emotions?

As if I have some personal vendetta against Jokic.

Only one here emotional seems to be you and the Jokic stans.

He is not the "most impactful" player on the offensive end.

Last time we saw him in a playoff series he was outplayed by Curry. The year before by Devin Booker. And 2 years ago by Anthony Davis.

This is what getting outplayed by Curry looks like



Imagine how much of a hater you have to be to interpret this as jokic getting owned

[BelgradeNugget]

What I don't get is how someone who is Nets fan is not arguing for Durant (and you can make great argument for him). Instead he is pushing for Tatum
Please make good argument for Durant to make some contribution to this discussion.

[Sgt Major]

That's because he's just rooting against Jokic. A few people on this board are constantly bashing Jokic and his accomplishments. While I understand when that comes from Sixers fans, to a degree, seeing some posters who are Nets and Lakers fans on a mission to diminish Nikola makes me scratch my head in disbelief.

[RB34]

I love how tribal this thread gets, go for each other’s throats!