ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion

[Alize]

Its 4.3 a game, he makes 1.5 of them,
its way better than 0.5 of 2.2 from Jordan, he didnt even made one three pointer a game on average, yet he is a better outside shooter, because he is an excellent mid-range player from 10-16ft, riiiiiight come one

You know when the commentators say he is 3 of 6 from outside in a game, it clearly indicates he is 3 of 6 from 3pt, not from outside the paint

Its 2020, not 1995

We need some outside shooters lets get CP3, Carmelo, Aldridge and AD.... said nobody ever in todays game
Mid-range is not outside shooting lol, you guys try everything to give Jordan credit where its not deserved, and its disrepctful to player who are actually outside shooters

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Ehemm but nba.com disagrees with you

http://www.nba.com/article/2019/12/13/friday-notebook-russell-westbrook-shooting-devonte-graham-dennis-schroder

But by all means keep on digging

Ps 3.3 3pta is not high volume or if it is then you have agree that infact Jordan shot 3pt at a high rate at 36% given that 3, 3 pt per game qualifies as high volume
Then Lebron shoots 3pt at 34% at high volume.

You cant just refuse what people have defined as a outside shot just because you want it to mean something else

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[ssang]

We need some outside shooters lets get CP3, Carmelo, Aldridge and AD.... said nobody ever in todays game
Mid-range is not outside shooting lol, you guys try everything to give Jordan credit where its not deserved, and its disrepctful to player who are actually outside shooters

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You're focused on the the wrong thing here. However one wants to define outside shooting, your position is that LeBron James is a superior shooter to Michael Jordan. That makes you an idiot. No matter how you wanna shake it.

Not maybe an idiot.

Not probably an idiot.

An unequivocal, definite, inarguable, full-on idiot.

That's where your focus needs to be.

[Alize]

He is a better outside shooter, Michael is clearly better from mid-range, read my posts before you text pleeease

We need some outside shooters lets get CP3, Carmelo, Aldridge and AD.... said nobody ever in todays game
Mid-range is not outside shooting lol, you guys try everything to give Jordan credit where its not deserved, and its disrepctful to player who are actually outside shooters

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You're focused on the the wrong thing here. However one wants to define outside shooting, your position is that LeBron James is a superior shooter to Michael Jordan. That makes you an idiot. No matter how you wanna shake it.

Not maybe an idiot.

Not probably an idiot.

An unequivocal, definite, inarguable, full-on idiot.

That's where your focus needs to be.

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[trueballer7]

We need some outside shooters lets get CP3, Carmelo, Aldridge and AD.... said nobody ever in todays game
Mid-range is not outside shooting lol, you guys try everything to give Jordan credit where its not deserved, and its disrepctful to player who are actually outside shooters

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The only player that could match Jordans' jumpers output in the playoffs, would be Durant. And that would have to be an old Jordan, playing in the era where scores were 85-84, and that would have to be a very prime Kevin Durant, playing in the era where scores were 120-121. The young Jordan, the one that dropped 17 jumpers (the number is beyond absurd) (including 6 3s) on the Knicks in game 4 of the EFC in 1993 or 11 jumpers (including 6 3s) in A SINGLE HALF in the NBA Finals vs the Blazers, is way past anyone elses outside shooting capacity. By the way, according to Randy Brown, Jordan never practiced the 3. It was all pure outside shooting instict

[Alize]

Did you watch LeBrons Game 5 against Detroit in 2007, or Game 6 vs Boston in 2012, the whole 2018 Playoffs ??? Clearly no, no problem for LeBron to make a high amount of jump shots

Nostalgia is strong with this one

We need some outside shooters lets get CP3, Carmelo, Aldridge and AD.... said nobody ever in todays game
Mid-range is not outside shooting lol, you guys try everything to give Jordan credit where its not deserved, and its disrepctful to player who are actually outside shooters

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

The only player that could match Jordans' jumpers output in the playoffs, would be Durant. And that would have to be an old Jordan, playing in the era where scores were 85-84, and that would have to be a very prime Kevin Durant, playing in the era where scores were 120-121. The young Jordan, the one that dropped 17 jumpers (the number is beyond absurd) (including 6 3s) on the Knicks in game 4 of the EFC in 1993 or 11 jumpers (including 6 3s) in A SINGLE HALF in the NBA Finals vs the Blazers, is way past anyone elses outside shooting capacity. By the way, according to Randy Brown, Jordan never practiced the 3. It was all pure outside shooting instict

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[Alize]

We need some outside shooters lets get CP3, Carmelo, Aldridge and AD.... said nobody ever in todays game
Mid-range is not outside shooting lol, you guys try everything to give Jordan credit where its not deserved, and its disrepctful to player who are actually outside shooters

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

The only player that could match Jordans' jumpers output in the playoffs, would be Durant. And that would have to be an old Jordan, playing in the era where scores were 85-84, and that would have to be a very prime Kevin Durant, playing in the era where scores were 120-121. The young Jordan, the one that dropped 17 jumpers (the number is beyond absurd) (including 6 3s) on the Knicks in game 4 of the EFC in 1993 or 11 jumpers (including 6 3s) in A SINGLE HALF in the NBA Finals vs the Blazers, is way past anyone elses outside shooting capacity. By the way, according to Randy Brown, Jordan never practiced the 3. It was all pure outside shooting instict

https://youtu.be/rN17J-KMWnY
No Problem

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[twyzted]

Its 4.3 a game, he makes 1.5 of them,
its way better than 0.5 of 2.2 from Jordan, he didnt even made one three pointer a game on average, yet he is a better outside shooter, because he is an excellent mid-range player from 10-16ft, riiiiiight come one

You know when the commentators say he is 3 of 6 from outside in a game, it clearly indicates he is 3 of 6 from 3pt, not from outside the paint

Its 2020, not 1995

We need some outside shooters lets get CP3, Carmelo, Aldridge and AD.... said nobody ever in todays game
Mid-range is not outside shooting lol, you guys try everything to give Jordan credit where its not deserved, and its disrepctful to player who are actually outside shooters

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Ehemm but nba.com disagrees with you

http://www.nba.com/article/2019/12/13/friday-notebook-russell-westbrook-shooting-devonte-graham-dennis-schroder

But by all means keep on digging

Ps 3.3 3pta is not high volume or if it is then you have agree that infact Jordan shot 3pt at a high rate at 36% given that 3, 3 pt per game qualifies as high volume
Then Lebron shoots 3pt at 34% at high volume.

You cant just refuse what people have defined as a outside shot just because you want it to mean something else

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You said

Lol, he is a better shooter than Michael, Lebron cracked 40% 3PFG on high volume shooting in a season, most of his clutch shots are threes, yet its mediocore, so Michael is a bad shooter i guess

if you look at bbreference the season lebron shot 40% he shot on average 3,3 3 point shots per game. If that is your definition as high volume then the seasons jordan shot over 3 3 pt shots he shot at 36% with normal line, but when lebron shot high volume shots ie over 3 3pt shot per game he shots at 34%.

Also if you look at the link i posted its an article from 13 december 2019 not 1995

[trueballer7]

Did you watch LeBrons Game 5 against Detroit in 2007, or Game 6 vs Boston in 2012, the whole 2018 Playoffs ??? Clearly no, no problem for LeBron to make a high amount of jump shots

Nostalgia is strong with this one

We need some outside shooters lets get CP3, Carmelo, Aldridge and AD.... said nobody ever in todays game
Mid-range is not outside shooting lol, you guys try everything to give Jordan credit where its not deserved, and its disrepctful to player who are actually outside shooters

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

The only player that could match Jordans' jumpers output in the playoffs, would be Durant. And that would have to be an old Jordan, playing in the era where scores were 85-84, and that would have to be a very prime Kevin Durant, playing in the era where scores were 120-121. The young Jordan, the one that dropped 17 jumpers (the number is beyond absurd) (including 6 3s) on the Knicks in game 4 of the EFC in 1993 or 11 jumpers (including 6 3s) in A SINGLE HALF in the NBA Finals vs the Blazers, is way past anyone elses outside shooting capacity. By the way, according to Randy Brown, Jordan never practiced the 3. It was all pure outside shooting instict

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I missed the ones he had 17 in a game or 11 in a half in the Finals (or in any other game for that matter). Those were good games though, had some semblance to old man Jordans' AVERAGE shooting output.

[lazybatman]

Guys,
Lebron's many things, but he's not a great shooter - from 3 or mid range, not better than Mike in any universe. Stats don't do them justice, as they don't take a lot into account -

- Lebron is seldom guarded as closely / double teamed cos of the driving ability / ability to deliver pin point missile passes to open 3 point shooters. So, the jumpers he makes are rarely tightly contested / heck, they're barely even jumpers, cos he doesn't even take off the ground for most of them. Credit to his intelligence for taking advantage of what he gets out there, but in no universe is Lebron in the same class as MJ in shooting.
- Mike didn't play in the 3 point era. It's like growing up without cellphones or automatic transmission. Not saying he would've been as good as Steph or Klay, but he'd be up there with a little work.
- Mike had a pull up / stop on a dime move which was his bread and butter. It's a much harder shot to make than regular jumpers Lebron makes.

Essentially saying, Mike made much harder jump shots at a higher clip. They're entirely different kinda players and people. I think Mike is no. 1 cos of Lebron's choke job in '11, but not by much. I don't care about the championships much cos Lebron's has had a tougher path.

Mike's an out and out scorer. The best ever.
Lebron's an all around offensive threat. The best ever.

[Capn'O]

Guys,
Lebron's many things, but he's not a great shooter - from 3 or mid range, not better than Mike in any universe. Stats don't do them justice, as they don't take a lot into account -

- Lebron is seldom guarded as closely / double teamed cos of the drive & finish / ability to deliver pin point missile passes to open 3 point shooters. So, the jumpers he makes are rarely tightly contested / hack, they're barely even jumpers, cos he doesn't even take off the ground for most of them. Credit to his intelligence for taking advantage of what he gets out there, but in no universe is Lebron in the same class as MJ in shooting.
- Mike didn't play in the 3 point era. It's like growing up without cellphones or automatic transmission. Not saying he would've been as good as Steph or Klay, but he'd be up there with a little work.
- Mike had a pull up / stop on a dime move which was his bread and butter. It's a much harder shot to make than a regular jumpers Lebron makes.

Essentially saying, Mike made much harder jump shots at a higher clip. They're entirely different kinda players and people. I think Mike is no. 1 cos of Lebron's choke job in '11, but not by much. I don't care about the championships much cos Lebron's has had a tougher path.

Mike's an out and out scorer. The best ever.
Lebron's an all around offensive threat. The best ever.

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I don't see any lies in this post.

[ILOVEIT]

One think Jordan had way over LeBron is major charisma....

But I really don't buy the reason for being a dick all the time to his teammates...."to make them tougher". If that was the case how come he's STILL that kind of guy. IMO he was sort of a bully....he could have inspired players to work hard in a total different way. And he was the same playing gulf...playing cards....all that. He was just a guy that thrived on being the alpha dog.

[The Rodzilla]

Rodzilla used to post on the bucks board when we had delly. His posts always focused on delly and he honestly believes delly is a star player who is instrumental in teams being good. I thought it was a schtick but obviously not after reading this thread.


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delly is a great player who is instrumental in teams being good, this season the cavs would be a playoff team if they only counted delly minutes on court and are up overall on their opposition

think of him like dennis rodman without the rebounding, his intensity rubs off on teammates and I can go down the list of his teams winning more than expected, including delly being + 11 against the USA at the Olympics with Kyrie, KD, Carmelo, Draymond, Paul George and more

the only reason the USA won was because Australia collapsed when delly was on the bench, but don't worry they broke the USA 78 game win streak next time they played

[bakafool]

Looked back at the 2nd 3peat roster and man that team was really crappy after the first 7 or so. Dayum.

[bakafool]

The outside shooting argument falls apart on both sides due to the issue of completely different era's.

If you throw Jordan's talent and work ethic into today's game, he would have made himself a 3 point threat.

With the systems in the 80's and 90's, LeBron would have been utilized differently. Jordan has the edge based on the fact that he was a complete psycho, you just can't teach how he's wired.

The 3pt thing is funny because MJ's 3 pt % is only a few points below Kobe's.

[LKN]

Rodzilla used to post on the bucks board when we had delly. His posts always focused on delly and he honestly believes delly is a star player who is instrumental in teams being good. I thought it was a schtick but obviously not after reading this thread.


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delly is a great player who is instrumental in teams being good, this season the cavs would be a playoff team if they only counted delly minutes on court and are up overall on their opposition

think of him like dennis rodman without the rebounding, his intensity rubs off on teammates and I can go down the list of his teams winning more than expected, including delly being + 11 against the USA at the Olympics with Kyrie, KD, Carmelo, Draymond, Paul George and more

the only reason the USA won was because Australia collapsed when delly was on the bench, but don't worry they broke the USA 78 game win streak next time they played

If it's Delly trolling time I'm here for it!

[The Rodzilla]

Rodzilla used to post on the bucks board when we had delly. His posts always focused on delly and he honestly believes delly is a star player who is instrumental in teams being good. I thought it was a schtick but obviously not after reading this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

delly is a great player who is instrumental in teams being good, this season the cavs would be a playoff team if they only counted delly minutes on court and are up overall on their opposition

think of him like dennis rodman without the rebounding, his intensity rubs off on teammates and I can go down the list of his teams winning more than expected, including delly being + 11 against the USA at the Olympics with Kyrie, KD, Carmelo, Draymond, Paul George and more

the only reason the USA won was because Australia collapsed when delly was on the bench, but don't worry they broke the USA 78 game win streak next time they played

If it's Delly trolling time I'm here for it!

all you need to do is recall what delly did to the bulls in their last playoff game, they blew up the team and still haven't recovered

it was a close series with game deciding shots until kyrie went down injured

[Ree4erMadness]

LMFAO @ Lebron being a better shooter. Is this real life? Its literally like people have never seen MJ play, what a shock. Anywhere inside the 3 point line, MJ is a much better shooter than Lebron and most players in the history of the NBA. Neither is a great 3 point shooter.

[BuckFan25226]

The outside shooting argument falls apart on both sides due to the issue of completely different era's.

If you throw Jordan's talent and work ethic into today's game, he would have made himself a 3 point threat.

With the systems in the 80's and 90's, LeBron would have been utilized differently. Jordan has the edge based on the fact that he was a complete psycho, you just can't teach how he's wired.

Who says he didnt work hard to become more of an outside threat? There is only a limited amount of time to work and become better at something, Michael clearly focused on his mid-range game and 3 point shooting during his career, he was trash at outside shooting when he came into the league and hard work made him excellent in mid range and average from outside.


the only thing we know is he was a 33% average 3 point shooter during his career

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Of course he worked on it. However again, the game back then was completely different.

Back in the day, you had sharp shooters like Mark Price, Dell Curry, and Reggie Miller etc. shooting 40% from 3 and attempting anywhere from 3 to 5 3 point attempts per game. Those guys would be hoisting up 6-9 3pt attempts per game in this era(ala Curry, Klay, D-robinson etc. Now you have guys like LeBron, Westbrook, hell even Giannis putting up 3-5 3pt attempts per game. Those guys don't hold a candle to the previous shooters I mentioned.

Again, the game has changed due to analytics. I don't have any doubt Jordan would have worked himself into a 35-37% 3pt shooter at a higher volume if that's what he desired earlier in his career.

[tondi123]

LMFAO @ Lebron being a better shooter. Is this real life? Its literally like people have never seen MJ play, what a shock. Anywhere inside the 3 point line, MJ is a much better shooter than Lebron and most players in the history of the NBA. Neither is a great 3 point shooter.

And MJ was an excellent FT shooter, ending the season in the top 10 numerous seasons. That's typically a very good barometer of shooting ability.

[LKN]

I hope the board can survive the meltdown when we find out that the Bulls ended up winning in their last dance season this Sunday. Not to spoil anything - but MJ might hit an important shot at the end.