2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 4)

HotelVitale · Post #901 » by **HotelVitale** » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:18 pm

whitehops wrote:cade going against the two best teams/defense in the league in his next two games (suns today, warriors tuesday) so it'll be a good gauge to see where he's at leading an offense.

What's your sense of why he's so inconsistent as a creator/initiator? I caught a good chunk of the 3rd quarter against the Jazz where he seemed like a boss in the high pn'r, and then I've caught other quarters here and there where he looked not even ready for the NBA. I know that's how it goes with rookies, but it seems more extreme with him--is it all just adjusting to NBA timing and spacing, not finding confidence and aggression yet because he can't get the groove of that? His passing/vision almost always looks good so I guess it's more the driving and handling before that. What do you think's going on there?

whitehops · Post #902 » by **whitehops** » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:45 pm

HotelVitale wrote:What's your sense of why he's so inconsistent as a creator/initiator? I caught a good chunk of the 3rd quarter against the Jazz where he seemed like a boss in the high pn'r, and then I've caught other quarters here and there where he looked not even ready for the NBA. I know that's how it goes with rookies, but it seems more extreme with him--is it all just adjusting to NBA timing and spacing, not finding confidence and aggression yet because he can't get the groove of that? His passing/vision almost always looks good so I guess it's more the driving and handling before that. What do you think's going on there?

i think the biggest thing for him has been deciding when to attack vs. facilitate. i think the pistons were easing him into handling the ball full-time but grant getting injured forced them to put the ball in cade's hand full-time.

he seems to be figuring that part out more now but it's obviously still a process.

HiRez · Post #903 » by **HiRez** » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:16 pm

whitehops wrote:cade going against the two best teams/defense in the league in his next two games (suns today, warriors tuesday) so it'll be a good gauge to see where he's at leading an offense.

Warriors may be without their 2 best defenders though, Draymond and GPII, so they could be quite a bit softer. And you never know if Kuminga or Iguodala will play, both of them have been very good on defense as well. Draymond and GPII are actually ranked #1 and #2 in the entire league according to defensive EPM.

PrimeThyme · Post #904 » by **PrimeThyme** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:47 am

Just like I was buying up Cade stock earlier in the season, I'm doing the same with Suggs long-term. The games slowing down and he's started to figure it out his last 10 games or so offensivley. Still all in.

Ducklett · Post #905 » by **Ducklett** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:21 am

What do you guys think the Rookie game at All Star game looks like?

K_chile22 · Post #906 » by **K_chile22** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:29 am

Jalen Green had an efficient 15 points and four assists at the end of the third and literally touched the ball once all fourth quarter (and it was an offensive rebound!!). This team is incredibly frustrating, even when they win

DroseReturnChi · Post #907 » by **DroseReturnChi** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:04 am

PrimeThyme wrote:Just like I was buying up Cade stock earlier in the season, I'm doing the same with Suggs long-term. The games slowing down and he's started to figure it out his last 10 games or so offensivley. Still all in.

long term i buy suggs his archetype is roy but its very alarming he is playing worse than cade when he was a consensus top 5 pick for being most nba ready. at least you need to produce more than raw scottie, otherwise theres no excuse even if a hater calls him out as a bust. im lowering from perennial all star to top 30 player for now unless he turns around like cade has been.

Creativetran · Post #908 » by **Creativetran** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:51 am

DroseReturnChi wrote:at least you need to produce more than raw scottie, otherwise theres no excuse even if a hater calls him out as a bust. im lowering from perennial all star to top 30 player for now unless he turns around like cade has been.

I don't agree with this part, no one saw Barnes as coming out this strong this fast, he WAS seen as a project. I do agree with the lowered projection now though, I thought he would be a star but definitely don't think that is the case now. Hopefully he's going to be a better version of M. Smart.

rate_ · Post #909 » by **rate_** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:31 am

Ducklett wrote:What do you guys think the Rookie game at All Star game looks like?

World
Duarte/Giddey/Wagner/Sengun/Yurtseven

bench:
Kuminga
Achuiwa
Avdija
Campazzo
C. Thomas
Landale

USA
LaMelo/Edwards/Bey/Barnes/Mobley

bench:
Haliburton
Cunningham
Anthony
H. Jones
Bane
Maxey

GSP · Post #910 » by **GSP** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:35 am

K_chile22 wrote:Jalen Green had an efficient 15 points and four assists at the end of the third and literally touched the ball once all fourth quarter (and it was an offensive rebound!!). This team is incredibly frustrating, even when they win

Houston outscored Sacramento 33-24 in the 4th. Big part of that was Jalen not touching the ball. You want your best players deciding the game and clutch situations like Gordon not one of your worst players like Jalen.

K_chile22 · Post #911 » by **K_chile22** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:43 am

GSP wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:Jalen Green had an efficient 15 points and four assists at the end of the third and literally touched the ball once all fourth quarter (and it was an offensive rebound!!). This team is incredibly frustrating, even when they win

Houston outscored Sacramento 33-24 in the 4th. Big part of that was Jalen not touching the ball. You want your best players deciding the game and clutch situations like Gordon not one of your worst players like Jalen.

And they outscored the Kings by 8 with him on the floor, he was +7 through 3 quarters. I'm not saying they should run everything through him he just needs to be involved. Players like Eric Gordon have a bigger impact on winning than any rookie in like 95% of draft classes. Rookies typically are not consistent winning players, unlike really good long time vets.

Besides that though, Gordon didn't do much tonight late besides the layup to seal it after green's rebound, it was mostly KPJ down the stretch

reamily · Post #912 » by **reamily** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:53 am

theres a instance where jalen way ahead dunk on taht last play, kpj ball hogged the ball so that he will be fouled and stat pad..
Ignite guys like him Kuminga and Nix will have a retribution at some point in the season

reamily · Post #913 » by **reamily** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:56 am

whoever watches houston games will not say jalen green is their worst player it always been woods and kpj being sub par..

reamily · Post #914 » by **reamily** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:59 am

Whoever watching houston games will not say jalen green is their worst player, (people arent saying he is the best player right now) it always been woods and kpj being sub par..and whoever watches houston games will say eric gordon only get things like he does because he slashes on the left and with jalen green being in the corner..

The-Power · Post #915 » by **The-Power** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:28 am

reamily wrote:whoever watches houston games will not say jalen green is their worst player it always been woods and kpj being sub par..

How do you explain that Jalen Green has by the worst on-off net rating (by far) and on-court net rating? The team is 16.4 points worse with him on the floor compared to without him. Second lowest is Theis at -11.4 and third is Augustin at -5.6. For comparison, Wood is at -3.0 and Porter Jr. at +1.7. I still like Green and a player like him can be the worst player (as in: most negative impact) on his team during his Rookie year and still turn out to be really good. But it's tough to reach a conclusion other than that he's made his team considerably worse this year.

PrimeThyme · Post #916 » by **PrimeThyme** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:01 pm

DroseReturnChi wrote:long term i buy suggs his archetype is roy but its very alarming he is playing worse than cade when he was a consensus top 5 pick for being most nba ready. at least you need to produce more than raw scottie, otherwise theres no excuse even if a hater calls him out as a bust. im lowering from perennial all star to top 30 player for now unless he turns around like cade has been.

It just depends on what most NBA-ready means to you. Suggs impacts the game defensively in a meaningful way. Where people misjudged him, however, is thinking that he was going to come in and be a mistake-free PnR playmaker and consistent shotmaker off the dribble from day one.

Suggs just didn't have the on-ball reps that a player such as Cade did coming out of college. He was often the 3rd ball handler and wasn't asked to create a lot of offense for what was arguably the best team in college basketball last season.

He's in a completely different situation than someone like Barnes, who's the 4th/5th option on a decent Toronto team and gets a large amount of his production in a cleanup/transition role on offense. Suggs is having to learn to create offense on the fly for the worst team in professional basketball.

He's learning though, and this is part of the reason why I'm buying a lot of the Suggs stock that has been sold. I think a lot of people feel the way you do, but I think there's important context that's being left out.

srhcan · Post #917 » by **srhcan** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:39 pm

rate_ wrote:
Ducklett wrote:What do you guys think the Rookie game at All Star game looks like?

World
Duarte/Giddey/Wagner/Sengun/Yurtseven

bench:
Kuminga
Achuiwa
Avdija
Campazzo
C. Thomas
Landale

USA
LaMelo/Edwards/Bey/Barnes/Mobley

bench:
Haliburton
Cunningham
Anthony
H. Jones
Bane
Maxey

Nice team although I would make changes to USA starting lineup; Maxey, Haliburton and Cunningham have good cases to be in starting lineup over Edwards, Bey and Barnes

PhilBlackson · Post #918 » by **PhilBlackson** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:08 pm

rate_ wrote:
Ducklett wrote:What do you guys think the Rookie game at All Star game looks like?

World
Duarte/Giddey/Wagner/Sengun/Yurtseven

bench:
Kuminga
Achuiwa
Avdija
Campazzo
C. Thomas
Landale

USA
LaMelo/Edwards/Bey/Barnes/Mobley

bench:
Haliburton
Cunningham
Anthony
H. Jones
Bane
Maxey

Cade would quite obviously be in the starting lineup over Bey.

K_chile22 · Post #919 » by **K_chile22** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:14 pm

PhilBlackson wrote:
rate_ wrote:
Ducklett wrote:What do you guys think the Rookie game at All Star game looks like?

World
Duarte/Giddey/Wagner/Sengun/Yurtseven

bench:
Kuminga
Achuiwa
Avdija
Campazzo
C. Thomas
Landale

USA
LaMelo/Edwards/Bey/Barnes/Mobley

bench:
Haliburton
Cunningham
Anthony
H. Jones
Bane
Maxey

Cade would quite obviously be in the starting lineup over Bey.

I'd have Bane over both tbh

srhcan · Post #920 » by **srhcan** » Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:57 am

Barnes is really not that sharp. 2 dumb decisions in closing minutes

Which three rookies impress you the most? (vote for up to 3)