NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sports

[LakerFanMan]

I guess I don't dwell that much on what happened to my ancestors or my ancestor's ancestors. I live in the here and now. Easy to say I guess when I don't have a history of repression in my gene pool. We can't forget it but we can't let it continue to shape our outlook or we never will get past it.

I think the bolded part is the best part of your post. It shows some acceptance and understanding.

I think one of the things that angers black people is this idea of "It happened a long time ago, get over it." First of all, it really wasn't that long ago that segregation and other such laws existed in this country. There are many, many people alive today that were alive during that time. The atrocities committed against black people didn't stop when slavery was abolished.

Second, it's almost like telling someone who came back from Nam with PTSD that they need to get over it. Hell why shouldn't they? It happened a long time ago and the government now gives treatment, board, and food. Never mind all those things are low funded and terrible.

These things are still happening today anyway, it hasn't stopped. I live in a predominantly white suburb in NJ. Very little crime, middle class. I met a black man where I used to work. Good guy, worked two jobs to feed his family, etc... He lived in a really bad neighborhood close by, a pretty violent area. He told me he was more scared to walk around my town than he was his own. Of course not understanding, I pointed put some of the crime statistics. He said, " I've never been stopped by the cops in my town. I'm stopped and questioned almost every time I go into yours. I walk around my town and no one bats an eyelash. I walk through yours and everyone stares as if they wonder what my intentions are."

It made me think a lot about the whole thing. People in our country actually feel this way.

[Shot Clock]

I guess I don't dwell that much on what happened to my ancestors or my ancestor's ancestors. I live in the here and now. Easy to say I guess when I don't have a history of repression in my gene pool. We can't forget it but we can't let it continue to shape our outlook or we never will get past it.

Agreed.

One thing you must understand is that the plight of Black people in America is truly, truly unique.

There is no real precendence.

.

The thing is, the article I quoted was from a West African that had immigrated to Canada.

[Shot Clock]

I guess I don't dwell that much on what happened to my ancestors or my ancestor's ancestors. I live in the here and now. Easy to say I guess when I don't have a history of repression in my gene pool. We can't forget it but we can't let it continue to shape our outlook or we never will get past it.

I think the bolded part is the best part of your post. It shows some acceptance and understanding.

I think one of the things that angers black people is this idea of "It happened a long time ago, get over it." First of all, it really wasn't that long ago that segregation and other such laws existed in this country. There are many, many people alive today that were alive during that time. The atrocities committed against black people didn't stop when slavery was abolished.

Not sure why you are trying to point out the obvious to me. I never suggested someone "get over it" I just said I don't dwell on what happened to my ancestors.

Second, it's almost like telling someone who came back from Nam with PTSD that they need to get over it. Hell why shouldn't they? It happened a long time ago and the government now gives treatment, board, and food. Never mind all those things are low funded and terrible.

No, it's not anything near the same. Next you'll be pulling out the holocaust survivor scenario and suggest I'm telling them to get over it. I'm suggesting we don't forget it but we don't allow it to color all of our current perceptions.

These things are still happening today anyway, it hasn't stopped. I live in a predominantly white suburb in NJ. Very little crime, middle class. I met a black man where I used to work. Good guy, worked two jobs to feed his family, etc... He lived in a really bad neighborhood close by, a pretty violent area. He told me he was more scared to walk around my town than he was his own. Of course not understanding, I pointed put some of the crime statistics. He said, " I've never been stopped by the cops in my town. I'm stopped and questioned almost every time I go into yours. I walk around my town and no one bats an eyelash. I walk through yours and everyone stares as if they wonder what my intentions are."

It made me think a lot about the whole thing. People in our country actually feel this way.

I have no doubt. That's not Vietnam, so lets keep things in perspective.

[Modulate]

I'm not sure what whacky conspiracy theory you have floating around in your head, but I'm asking a question because I'd like an answer. Why is everyone dodging it? Is it because they don't like the answer?

Don't like the answer? Hmmm...sounds like you've already decided what the answer is and are just looking for a fight now. As much as you want believe the answer is some inherent predisposition to violence...or it's rap music...or a refusal to 'pull themselves up by the bootstraps' or whatever useless trope you're carrying around - it's not.

And can we give wigglestrue a round of applause. I mean, he's already self-congratulatory enough for some reason but he deserves some outside recognition for his efforts. It takes a special kind of dedication to put up post after post of ultra-defensive, empty, hysterical walls of word vomit. His whole 800,000 word argument basically boils down to denial and pointing fingers yelling, "ACKNOWLEDGING RACISM MAKES YOU RACIST!" But since he dresses up his language and bathes his pretentious rants in loquaciousness, he comes off seeming like he almost has a point. So let's give credit where credit is due...the dude obviously knows how to polish a turd.

[DrewBynum77]

Why don't you just say what you really want to say and get it over with already instead of dancing around it by continually posing this loaded ass question as if you actually want (or would even accept) the answer.

I'm not sure what whacky conspiracy theory you have floating around in your head, but I'm asking a question because I'd like an answer. Why is everyone dodging it? Is it because they don't like the answer?

I'm don't believe that you're actually looking for a serious answer. You seem more like a troll who is just looking to spew your racist bs. But black people aren't any more violent than most other races. If you look at the history of the US it's white people that have been the most violent, sadistic and downright psychotic people. It gets sugar coated, but the history of racism in the US is downright demonic. It's been documented that white people would chop off body parts of black people, burn them alive, rip out their innards etc for no reason at all other than the fact they were black. The word picnic comes from a time when white people would form mobs with their families and look for black people to murder. They'd bring their kids, food and cut off body parts as souvenirs.

Firstly, let me say he used a racist argument and you countered him with another racist argument. Humans are violent, we are animals after all and unlike other animals, we are greedy. We kill for money, a piece of colored paper. With that being said, I'd like to correct you on your theory about picnic.It has absolutely nothing to do with what you described. Maybe you've heard about some people in some crap hole back in the slavery days that hunted down a black person and then, after that did a picnic. Or some very 'intelligent' person associated picnic with pick a **** and the myth grew thru the years but pique-nique is a French word to describe the action of going outdoors to get some sort of entertainment and bring caskets filled with food so people could eat there. The French, as usual, exported it everywhere. That word is present on many cultures and everywhere it has the same meaning and it's origins had nothing to do what you describe.

Btw, don't even try to post some crappy website confirming what you just wrote. It's definitively wrong. I'm simply correcting you on the issue.

[Rip It]

The question remains unanswered. How very strange.

[DrewBynum77]

Yeh, troll. Hopefully people will simply ignore you. Now, onto the subject:

The age limit is simply absurd! NCAA profits millions in the exchange of the free work of unprivileged people (doesn't matter the race color). if some athletes wants free education* then good for them but you can't force everyone to work for free to entertain millions and generate money to an elite. It's a dictatorial-Communist concept and it shouldn't exist in the US of A. Btw, I'll throw up in disgust if someone says "nobody is forced to go to college". Please, don't come up with a juvenile argument.

Now, do I think it's due to racism? Nope. Do I think the NBAPA really believes it's due to racism? Nope. It's all about capitalism but they needed to convince their own players first for them to take a hard stance on the subject and then get the discussion going thru the media. The color card does the job. It's egoistical for the veteran players in the NBA to not want an influx of young kids coming to the league early in their career. OTOH, I really believe that in the origins of the rule the racism played a part but not anymore. Nowadays it's just about money. The money that NCAA generates and the egoistical mentality of veteran players.

*I don't believe you get an education in college, you just learn a profession. You get educated --or don't-- earlier in your life.

[nbhadja]

Of course you will get the standard ignorant white guy response that it has nothing to do with race. When you're white, it's a lot easier to not see race. But this is clearly a racist policy- one that disproportionately affects black athletes and lines the NCAA's pockets.

Yeah, who wants a free education?

The education is nothing for elite prospects who can make millions off of the draft if they were allowed to go to the NBA straight from HS. An injury could derail their chances and no one wants to be injured without getting paid. They can't even sign endorsement contracts while playing college ball.Plus these athletes spend so much time with their sport that they don't have much time to take a real major....and we all know that bachelors degrees these days aren't worth a whole lot anyways. A bachelors has become the new HS degree.

If the NBA goes through with the 2 year requirement I think we will see a lot more top prospects playing overseas like Brandon Jennings. That's what I would personally do. Get paid hundreds of thousands if not a couple million playing overseas or get exploited by the NCAA?? hmm tough choice. Of course this only applies to elite lottery prospects.

[wigglestrue]

And can we give wigglestrue a round of applause. I mean, he's already self-congratulatory enough for some reason but he deserves some outside recognition for his efforts. It takes a special kind of dedication to put up post after post of ultra-defensive, empty, hysterical walls of word vomit. His whole 800,000 word argument basically boils down to denial and pointing fingers yelling, "ACKNOWLEDGING RACISM MAKES YOU RACIST!" But since he dresses up his language and bathes his pretentious rants in loquaciousness, he comes off seeming like he almost has a point. So let's give credit where credit is due...the dude obviously knows how to polish a turd.

You royally suck at "basically boiling down" my points.

[Rip It]

Yeah, I think I'll be excusing myself from this discussion now. It's clear certain people here don't give a damn about facts or truth, and can't debate in a reasonable manner.

Good luck with fixing your broken culture when you refuse to address the primary problem (insane violent crime rates), black people. You're gonna need it.

[nbhadja]

I guess I don't dwell that much on what happened to my ancestors or my ancestor's ancestors. I live in the here and now. Easy to say I guess when I don't have a history of repression in my gene pool. We can't forget it but we can't let it continue to shape our outlook or we never will get past it.

Agreed.

One thing you must understand is that the plight of Black people in America is truly, truly unique.

There is no real precendence.

After slavery, we never left this place; perhaps we should have.

There is a lot of stuff stacked up against blacks in America like the judicial system, racism, the police and the war on drugs etc, but the biggest disadvantage is the Black American culture, This culture, which I believe has been implemented instead of naturally formed, is self destructive. The first problem is that a big part of the culture is having a huge percent of African American households with a single mother. Without another parent each household has a big disadvantage for their kid. They are more likely to remain in poverty and also commit a crime. To compound this, the 2nd issue is that the culture in the inner city often times idolizes the rap ganster culture, which promotes violence and other bad values. Where I work I see many people from around the world. When I see a black family from overseas they almost always have a father. When I see an African American family usually there is no father as a part of their family. These 2 issues are severe disadvantages not faced by Blacks in many other parts of the world.

What the African American community should do is throw the idiot rapper celebrities away that are fixtures of the African American culture. These morons promote violence and materialism with their songs.

[flash22]

Can someone tell me how my situation is any different from an NBA prospects?

The summer after my senior year in high school I worked an unpaid internship for a software development firm. I did well at my internship so they put me into a 4 year scholarship program where I continued to work as an unpaid intern, while they paid for my college education.

By the time I was a sophomore it was clear that I was qualified for my job, but I needed a degree before they could put me on salary. So I stuck it out for 3 more years and was officially hired the day after my graduation.

Are these unpaid internships racist against while folks? Just trying to keep the white man down? No that's ridiculous, just like this conversation is.

[wigglestrue]

Also, to answer that last question, I think it's ambitious to suggest that Black people should be cured after fifty years, especially when you consider the psychological damage that was done to the entire race.

I see it less as being ambitious and more as not being fatalistic. I'm pretty sure psychological damage does not get passed through genes. I don't see black people as a single pathological entity. Those are things I associate with racist thinking. Or, antiracist thinking.

To enslave and terrorize a people for 500 years, think about that for a minute, 500 years, eight generations, then expect those people get their acts together in less than one generation is unrealistic. If you disagree, then I can't help but think you don't understand the atrocities of slavery and their still lingering effects.

50 years represents more than one generation. Multiple waves of newborn human beings growing up in a completely different world. So, yes, I don't understand how the damage of 50-500 years ago automatically winds up in the psyche of new people. Who's giving it to them, how?

As King Ken pointed out through his MLK video, reparations were never given, nothing was ever given, not even a damn apology, after being enslaved for eight goddamn generations.

Shameful, agreed.

Even after being cast aside, Black people were still able to conquer the demons of the past by learning to work together for the betterment of the whole. We established Black Wall Street, we created powerful organizations that created systems to sustain ourselves. Unfortunately, after every dramatic uptick on the part of Black people, our efforts were thwarted by white oppressors.

They literally dropped bombs on Black Wall Street. They infiltrated and caused the destruction of the Black Panthers. The American government murdered Martin Luther King when he began to speak out and do too much. The depressing and debilitating list goes on and on and on and on.

Black people MUST learn how to rely on ourselves, but seemingly every time we begin to learn this principle, a literal and/or metaphorical bomb is dropped.

I think most black people do rely on themselves, no?

The Panthers were just a wee bit self-destructive, and were way more about anticapitalist revolt than racial uplift.

MLK was murdered right before he was going to lead the Poor People's Campaign. (Which was utterly abandoned by his peers and successors. Why?)

Can you imagine that extreme level of psycological terror? Can you really? Seemingly every time we attempt to heal, bad things happen.

You know how I feel. I wish ALL of my people understood what I understand, that we must heal and learn to truly value one another.

Unfortunately, today, I'm the exception, I've done the psychoanalysis on me, the people closest to me, and the entire race of Black folks. Many are incapable of this without deep psychological assistance. Has America even offered that? Can we get some free counseling at least? We damn sure need it.

Our mangled minds and spirits will not heal themselves without deep, concentrated psychological work and assistance.

Everyone could use therapy. But I do not think black people as a whole have especially mangled minds and spirits.

It's so much easier for white people to change after 550 years than it is for Black people.

Black people need real help--post-traumatic psychological help, spiritual help (you know y'all took our God too), financial help, educational help, family help, help with trust, and general help with image and self-love.

White people just need to be nicer.

Most black people don't need to change. True or false?

You can't gloss over this. If you do then you're doing exactly what Bill Bradley spoke of when he said that white people's responses here are standard and ignorant.

Don't be that. Don't be typical.

I might be wrong, but I'm not ignorant or "standard" or typical.

Think about the other side. Listen and imagine the world through a Black lense.

I always have, do, and am. This is not my first conversation with a black person, believe it or not.

Sorry for the short thrift. Not as much time today as in recent days. Will gladly dive deeper later.

[Shot Clock]

Yeh, troll. Hopefully people will simply ignore you. Now, onto the subject:

The age limit is simply absurd! NCAA profits millions in the exchange of the free work of unprivileged people (doesn't matter the race color). if some athletes wants free education* then good for them but you can't force everyone to work for free to entertain millions and generate money to an elite. It's a dictatorial-Communist concept and it shouldn't exist in the US of A. Btw, I'll throw up in disgust if someone says "nobody is forced to go to college". Please, don't come up with a juvenile argument.

Now, do I think it's due to racism? Nope. Do I think the NBAPA really believes it's due to racism? Nope. It's all about capitalism but they needed to convince their own players first for them to take a hard stance on the subject and then get the discussion going thru the media. The color card does the job. It's egoistical for the veteran players in the NBA to not want an influx of young kids coming to the league early in their career. OTOH, I really believe that in the origins of the rule the racism played a part but not anymore. Nowadays it's just about money. The money that NCAA generates and the egoistical mentality of veteran players.

*I don't believe you get an education in college, you just learn a profession. You get educated --or don't-- earlier in your life.

What does NCAA profits have to do with the NBA wanting a waiting period?

The chief thing I find you learn in college is critical thinking. Something that seems to be lacking these days.

[JMac1]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Bk8TVZ7KU[/youtube]

Just watch from the 7:00 minute mark. Jon will set all of the non-believers/there is no racism people on this thread straight!

[Rip It]

Allen West laying down the law, per the usual:

Black lives matter? Watch 15-year-old black girl violently beaten while no one stops it. [WARNING GRAPHIC] - AllenBWest.com

There is a cancer in the black community affecting our young boys and girls. If we don’t stop with the political games being played for advantage and leverage and tackle the real issues, we may be looking at several generations lost. All lives matter, not just those who afford race baiters and anti-police anarchists a platform.

#BlackLivesMatterAsLongAsTheyFitMyPoliticalAgendaOtherwiseTheyMeanF***AllHenceWhyWeSingleOutRelativelyRareInstancesOfCopsKillingBlacksInSelfDefenseWhileIntentionallyIgnoringTheOutbreakOfBlackOnBlackMurders

Pathetic, despicable, immoral, evil, selfish people, thank you for making me ashamed to be a human being.

[LakerFanMan]

I guess I don't dwell that much on what happened to my ancestors or my ancestor's ancestors. I live in the here and now. Easy to say I guess when I don't have a history of repression in my gene pool. We can't forget it but we can't let it continue to shape our outlook or we never will get past it.

I think the bolded part is the best part of your post. It shows some acceptance and understanding.

I think one of the things that angers black people is this idea of "It happened a long time ago, get over it." First of all, it really wasn't that long ago that segregation and other such laws existed in this country. There are many, many people alive today that were alive during that time. The atrocities committed against black people didn't stop when slavery was abolished.

Not sure why you are trying to point out the obvious to me. I never suggested someone "get over it" I just said I don't dwell on what happened to my ancestors.

Second, it's almost like telling someone who came back from Nam with PTSD that they need to get over it. Hell why shouldn't they? It happened a long time ago and the government now gives treatment, board, and food. Never mind all those things are low funded and terrible.

No, it's not anything near the same. Next you'll be pulling out the holocaust survivor scenario and suggest I'm telling them to get over it. I'm suggesting we don't forget it but we don't allow it to color all of our current perceptions.

These things are still happening today anyway, it hasn't stopped. I live in a predominantly white suburb in NJ. Very little crime, middle class. I met a black man where I used to work. Good guy, worked two jobs to feed his family, etc... He lived in a really bad neighborhood close by, a pretty violent area. He told me he was more scared to walk around my town than he was his own. Of course not understanding, I pointed put some of the crime statistics. He said, " I've never been stopped by the cops in my town. I'm stopped and questioned almost every time I go into yours. I walk around my town and no one bats an eyelash. I walk through yours and everyone stares as if they wonder what my intentions are."

It made me think a lot about the whole thing. People in our country actually feel this way.

I have no doubt. That's not Vietnam, so lets keep things in perspective.

I don't even know how to respond to this because my first post was to tell you how black people percieve what you say and you responded with "I didn't say that." The reality is, and this is what I was trying to tell you, it doesn't matter what you meant to say, what matters is how it's percieved. I mean, do you not see how saying "I don't dwell on the past" and "I don't worry about what happened to my ancestors" is perceived by a group of people who's ancestors have been raped, murdered and enslaved for hundreds of years? In a thread where that's what people are talking about. They hear "It happened in the past, get over it." If you can't see that then you need to go back and read through this thread.

As to the Vietnam example, please tell me how it's not the same. This is how black people see it. There are people alive now in the black community who have lived through some horrible things that have left them traumatized. Many of them continue to live through it.

There are too many people here who keep saying "Yea, I hear the black point of view," then they post and it's obvious that they don't. There are black people here saying "No that's not how we see it." Yet some posters in here keep posting the same stuff, really just refusing to listen.

[DemoleDemolezan]

Here's what i'm talking about:

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/0 ... -arrested/


Half or whatever is debatable but it's clear: a sizable percentage of white Americans are incapable of empathy towards blacks and are either actively hostile or passively are ok with blacks being mistreated. Make of that what you will.

No. "half or whatever" is not debatable. It simply isn't. End of conversation. Now, this is an interesting study and it certainly raises some questions and the need for further study. But, I don't think this one study proves anything unequivocally and I am sure the authors would agree with me. With that said I am not denying that there is a problem. There most definitely is. But to say that half of white people are sociopathic just makes you look ridiculous. Stop it.

Be honest: you're just not persuadable. I posted a scientific study and you just don't want to consider the evidence. There's a mountain of studies, many on the mirror-neuron-system showing how whites' brains do not react to seeing black or asian people doing something but do when seeing a white person doing it. I'm not going to waste time arguing with you as your mind is already made up. Anyone reading this can google "mirror-neuron-system racism" for more info.

I am not persuadable on your ludicrous fairy tales. You can talk about mirror-neuron-systems all you want but until you show me a study that contradicts the wealth of evidence and basic scientific common knowledge that only 3-4% of the population is sociopathic then we can start talking. Until then stop making ignorant and inflammatory declarations that the near majority of whites are sociopathic.

[baki]

Allen West laying down the law, per the usual:

Black lives matter? Watch 15-year-old black girl violently beaten while no one stops it. [WARNING GRAPHIC] - AllenBWest.com

There is a cancer in the black community affecting our young boys and girls. If we don’t stop with the political games being played for advantage and leverage and tackle the real issues, we may be looking at several generations lost. All lives matter, not just those who afford race baiters and anti-police anarchists a platform.

#BlackLivesMatterAsLongAsTheyFitMyPoliticalAgendaOtherwiseTheyMeanF***AllHenceWhyWeSingleOutRelativelyRareInstancesOfCopsKillingBlacksInSelfDefenseWhileIntentionallyIgnoringTheOutbreakOfBlackOnBlackMurders

Pathetic, despicable, immoral, evil, selfish people, thank you for making me ashamed to be a human being.

That is incredibly disturbing, to be completely surrounded by so many people and not one of them intervened or called 911.
Great job kids.

[JMac1]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy-LEnWg-3Q[/youtube]

8 white girls brutally beat white girl.