2023 West Semifinals | (1) Denver Nuggets VS (4) Phoenix Suns (DEN WINS 4-2)

[spanishninja]

i dont see any cohesiveness on this team. no real chemistry. didnt we just learn in brooklyn that top level talent can only get you so far in the post season?

The Suns are only going as far as Book and KD take them and in this game because it was a late season trade and KD missed 3 weeks with an injury so the team is just not comfortable playing with each other and it shows.

JJ also absolutely has to either be fired or leave his GM position because he apparently declined some Jae Crowder trades that would have gotten an asset back, rumor was Hachimura was available but the Suns wanted a starter in return.

Curiously he also traded Dario Saric for Darius Bazley and a 2nd round pick, Dario was an expiring but the Suns could really use him off the bench to facilitate the offense and provide a bit of floor spacing.

He also has failed to find a backup PG for CP3 after this was clearly a need in 2021 after CP3 suffered an injury in the playoffs, he didn't need to find a superstar just a passable backup PG but he couldn't even do that. So with a depleted bench and a rushed KD trade that was just too short of a window to figure out both the defense and the offense and it shows.

Why would he have done this based on 2021? Cam Payne was good backup in 2021. Averaged 9/3/3 in the playoffs and shot 43/36. Should Phoenix have expected him to suck the next two seasons?

Also they had time after the trade, but KD got injured, that isn't the GM's fault.

I gotta disagree with you here on Cam Payne. I highly doubt Jones ever considered him to be a long term solution as PG. His contract is for $6M a year. that screams stopgap solution to me. He has had opportunities to upgrade in other ways. I hate to bring this up again but he drafted Jalen Smith over Haliburton.

[og15]

The Suns are only going as far as Book and KD take them and in this game because it was a late season trade and KD missed 3 weeks with an injury so the team is just not comfortable playing with each other and it shows.

JJ also absolutely has to either be fired or leave his GM position because he apparently declined some Jae Crowder trades that would have gotten an asset back, rumor was Hachimura was available but the Suns wanted a starter in return.

Curiously he also traded Dario Saric for Darius Bazley and a 2nd round pick, Dario was an expiring but the Suns could really use him off the bench to facilitate the offense and provide a bit of floor spacing.

He also has failed to find a backup PG for CP3 after this was clearly a need in 2021 after CP3 suffered an injury in the playoffs, he didn't need to find a superstar just a passable backup PG but he couldn't even do that. So with a depleted bench and a rushed KD trade that was just too short of a window to figure out both the defense and the offense and it shows.

Why would he have done this based on 2021? Cam Payne was good backup in 2021. Averaged 9/3/3 in the playoffs and shot 43/36. Should Phoenix have expected him to suck the next two seasons?

Also they had time after the trade, but KD got injured, that isn't the GM's fault.

KD was already injured at the time of the trade and he has oft been injured during his Nets stint. Cam Payne had a good season in 2021 but the following year he was hardly the same player and wildly inconsistent and injured & more of the same this year.

We had a chance to get Haliburton but JJ whiffed and got a Jalen Smith many at the time thought was a bit of a reach who ended up being a bust and shipped off to Indiana. He's had many chances to improve the roster but has done an overall terrible job of it.

Phoenix still had 20 games left after he came back from injury, can't really get on the GM because Durant then got injured again and missed 10 games. Those 10 games would have gone a long way in helping them learn to play together better and test some more things out.

Payne was paid the money for a backup PG after that season, your teams GM made a reasonable move to give Payne money as a backup PG after that 2021 run. One could expect some regression / fluctuation, but he went from a 17 PER / 60 TS guy to a 13-14 PER / 50% TS guy, that's kinda tough for a team to predict for a 27 year old in the exact same team situation.

I'm not arguing how good or bad JJ is, just that those specific examples aren't really saying anything negative. There would have been no reason for the Suns to chase a PG after 20-21. This off-season after Payne's poor 21-22 season they could have, but who would they have gotten? I have no clue, was there a player the Suns were reasonably able to get who would actually be good?

[og15]

The Suns are only going as far as Book and KD take them and in this game because it was a late season trade and KD missed 3 weeks with an injury so the team is just not comfortable playing with each other and it shows.

JJ also absolutely has to either be fired or leave his GM position because he apparently declined some Jae Crowder trades that would have gotten an asset back, rumor was Hachimura was available but the Suns wanted a starter in return.

Curiously he also traded Dario Saric for Darius Bazley and a 2nd round pick, Dario was an expiring but the Suns could really use him off the bench to facilitate the offense and provide a bit of floor spacing.

He also has failed to find a backup PG for CP3 after this was clearly a need in 2021 after CP3 suffered an injury in the playoffs, he didn't need to find a superstar just a passable backup PG but he couldn't even do that. So with a depleted bench and a rushed KD trade that was just too short of a window to figure out both the defense and the offense and it shows.

Why would he have done this based on 2021? Cam Payne was good backup in 2021. Averaged 9/3/3 in the playoffs and shot 43/36. Should Phoenix have expected him to suck the next two seasons?

Also they had time after the trade, but KD got injured, that isn't the GM's fault.

I gotta disagree with you here on Cam Payne. I highly doubt Jones ever considered him to be a long term solution as PG. His contract is for $6M a year. that screams stopgap solution to me. He has had opportunities to upgrade in other ways. I hate to bring this up again but he drafted Jalen Smith over Haliburton.

Backup PG isn't necessarily a position you fill long term unless it's a really good player. A permanent backup player like that is not always easy to get, so it's understandable.

I don't know anything about the Suns cap or what they were willing and able to spend, but I'm probably some mMLE or something, so the options obviously get limited there.

The Haliburton one is obviously understandable, just didn't think there was anything that condemning about the few games with Durant and the backup PG situation. What the Suns were in need of was a future PG based on CP's age, sure, but that's hard to get if you're still paying your current guys good money (unless it is a rookie, hence the Haliburton debacle).

[Duke4life831]

You think they keep KCP ass over him

KCP is under contract for two more seasons after this one at a very reasonable 15m-ish per season
ass? KCP is a good player, that 5th starter slot is more important than ever in the NBA

PHX would be all over the Nuggets if they had a legit 5th starter and not guys like Okogie, shamet etc
he's a smart durable vet, who plays good defense can hit an open jumper and knows his limitations

he goes for the particular midrange shots he knows he can make, doesn't make alot of mistakes and is worth the money they are paying him

this has nothing to do with Brown, who has a 6m player option which he will 100% opt out of and will be looking for a long term deal as he's been underpaid his whole career

Nuggets already have over 130m commited to Jokic \ Murray \ MPJ \ AG and 15 more with KCP
without bird rights, there's no way this works unless he elects to do a Bobby Portis move - that seems highly unlikely

I like Bruce Brown but i think you can replace him. Brown himself signed a very good value contract to play with Jokic and up his value. There must be another free agent this year who may have the same line of the thinking.

Hell to be honest they already kind of have it with Braun. They are already tossing Braun onto guys like KD and Booker when he is out there. Give him a full summer and another year to get comfortable, pretty good chance this time next year they can count on Braun to come in and be a big athletic energy guard off the bench they can count on to give them 25 minutes off the bench.

And ya I wouldnt be shocked if Denver can either get a trusted vet to come in and ring chase, or another spunky younger guy to come in on a team friendly deal like how Brown was. Because Im sure other guys will view Denver like Brown did. If they know they will be in the rotation, is there any better situation to go to over Denver, when trying to bump up your value for your next contract. You know if you just play with energy, Jokic is going to make you look good.

[Exp0sed]

Hell to be honest they already kind of have it with Braun. They are already tossing Braun onto guys like KD and Booker when he is out there. Give him a full summer and another year to get comfortable, pretty good chance this time next year they can count on Braun to come in and be a big athletic energy guard off the bench they can count on to give them 25 minutes off the bench.

And ya I wouldnt be shocked if Denver can either get a trusted vet to come in and ring chase, or another spunky younger guy to come in on a team friendly deal like how Brown was. Because Im sure other guys will view Denver like Brown did. If they know they will be in the rotation, is there any better situation to go to over Denver, when trying to bump up your value for your next contract. You know if you just play with energy, Jokic is going to make you look good.

hmm I think ur selling Brown and what he brings to the table kinda shortl here

Braun is young and he's only got one speed, if you give him the ball and let him make decisions with it - i doubt you'd be satisified with the result and even on the break, he's about as likely to run over a defender and get a charge then he is at converting

yes, he has quick feet and great hops and can reasonably stay in front of his man but he doesn't do much else (yet) and he's a poor free-throw shooter, which as an issue when ur a Guard especially if ur team's lineup already consists of a PF whose a poor FT shooter

his awareness on both ends of the court isn't even in Brown's stratosphere imo
rn he's just a young spring, going hard from end to end - Brown makes excellent decisions and reads the game very well
he undestands the game at a much higher level, there's no way that Braun can replicate that as early as next season (if at all)

I trust Brown's jumpshot more, as well and he's got a killer first step and understands how to use his body in order to finish - much better than Braun. in general he plays with great poise and body control while Braun is kinda all over the place

he's also pretty consistent, whereas with Braun in his rookie season - you'd get the bad version that just disappeares and has a deer in the headlights vibe - all too often

i'm sure he'll improve on that naturally, by the time he'll be a 3-4-5 years veteran but his a long ways from that imo

with that said, obviously if the Nuggets lose Brown and won't sign anyone - that's exactly what they'll do, but it won't be as good as having Bruce fill that role, imo anyway

p.s - check out how few turnovers Brown has had in his NBA career
dude has a knack for not making mistakes, he's more than just a fill-in role player

[longtallbrad]

And as predictable when Denver wins the game idiots from lamestream media are only talking about the Suns and how their team is flawed, not enough help and blah blah. Zero criticism of their stars and no nice words for the winners. When Denver lose the game, they only all talk how Booker and Durant are the great players

That was always the case during the Spurs championship years. This usually happens with small markets that have no player that is "face of the league". Jokic is not considered a face of the league type of guy like Lebron, Curry, Durant, etc. I think right now he's the best player in the league but he's not marketable like those guys are and hence why the media tries to downplay him and his team. I personally find him more exciting than those guys listed above but the media is not a fan of his and hence will try to discredit him at every opportunity.

Put Jokic in NYC, LA, or even Chicago, Houston, or Philly, and his visibility and narrative inflates in some way.

[Ckay]

Very spicy.

Read on Twitter

[spanishninja]

Very spicy.

Read on Twitter

asking for a friend, but if a player is caught with mountains of cocaine in his locker and gets banned from the league, his contract gets voided correct?

[Duke4life831]

Hell to be honest they already kind of have it with Braun. They are already tossing Braun onto guys like KD and Booker when he is out there. Give him a full summer and another year to get comfortable, pretty good chance this time next year they can count on Braun to come in and be a big athletic energy guard off the bench they can count on to give them 25 minutes off the bench.

And ya I wouldnt be shocked if Denver can either get a trusted vet to come in and ring chase, or another spunky younger guy to come in on a team friendly deal like how Brown was. Because Im sure other guys will view Denver like Brown did. If they know they will be in the rotation, is there any better situation to go to over Denver, when trying to bump up your value for your next contract. You know if you just play with energy, Jokic is going to make you look good.

hmm I think ur selling Brown and what he brings to the table kinda shortl here

Braun is young and he's only got one speed, if you give him the ball and let him make decisions with it - i doubt you'd be satisified with the result and even on the break, he's about as likely to run over a defender and get a charge then he is at converting

yes, he has quick feet and great hops and can reasonably stay in front of his man but he doesn't do much else (yet) and he's a poor free-throw shooter, which as an issue when ur a Guard especially if ur team's lineup already consists of a PF whose a poor FT shooter

his awareness on both ends of the court isn't even in Brown's stratosphere imo
rn he's just a young spring, going hard from end to end - Brown makes excellent decisions and reads the game very well
he undestands the game at a much higher level, there's no way that Braun can replicate that as early as next season (if at all)

I trust Brown's jumpshot more, as well and he's got a killer first step and understands how to use his body in order to finish - much better than Braun. in general he plays with great poise and body control while Braun is kinda all over the place

he's also pretty consistent, whereas with Braun in his rookie season - you'd get the bad version that just disappeares and has a deer in the headlights vibe - all too often

i'm sure he'll improve on that naturally, by the time he'll be a 3-4-5 years veteran but his a long ways from that imo

with that said, obviously if the Nuggets lose Brown and won't sign anyone - that's exactly what they'll do, but it won't be as good as having Bruce fill that role, imo anyway

p.s - check out how few turnovers Brown has had in his NBA career
dude has a knack for not making mistakes, he's more than just a fill-in role player

Ya but Im not saying Braun right now is equal to Brown right now. Im saying Braun a year from now compared to Brown right now probably isnt the biggest gap.

Dont get me wrong I get what Brown does and ive been saying all year the upgrade of him and KCP over their previous guards is a big reason they are a much better team. But also to be fair, Bruce Brown is who is he is and on a prove it contract for a reason. His defense has been really inconsistent throughout the year and his shot has also been inconsistent as well. There have been times later in the season where teams were fine with daring Brown to shoot because his shot completely left him.

Again I agree he is more consistent than Braun and doesnt make nearly the same amount of mistakes. But I do think he has a very simple role on the team and one that I think with a full year more of experience, I think Braun in that similar role can have a similar impact. Or at least the drop off wont be huge.

Now obviously if DEN can somehow get him for another year, obviously that is the route you go. But ya I just wont be shocked if he leaves, this time next year Braun will be able to play a solid 25 minutes off the bench.

[Mickey8]

And as predictable when Denver wins the game idiots from lamestream media are only talking about the Suns and how their team is flawed, not enough help and blah blah. Zero criticism of their stars and no nice words for the winners. When Denver lose the game, they only all talk how Booker and Durant are the great players

That was always the case during the Spurs championship years. This usually happens with small markets that have no player that is "face of the league". Jokic is not considered a face of the league type of guy like Lebron, Curry, Durant, etc. I think right now he's the best player in the league but he's not marketable like those guys are and hence why the media tries to downplay him and his team. I personally find him more exciting than those guys listed above but the media is not a fan of his and hence will try to discredit him at every opportunity.

I am aware of that. But this with Jokic and Denver is on another level. Its a full blown campaign to diminish Jokic imprint on the game and to belittle him in the comparison to the other stars in the league and to have only negative coverage about Nuggets. Its ridiculous.

[Exp0sed]

this series isn't over yet, imo

I undestand why conventional wisdom (and logic, probability etc.) is that PHX will have a hard time beating Denver in game 7 in Denver but stranger things have happened

[spanishninja]

this series isn't over yet, imo

I undestand why conventional wisdom (and logic, probability etc.) is that PHX will have a hard time beating Denver in game 7 in Denver but stranger things have happened

eh, I think Denver has made the last adjustment of the series. I doubt Monty has anything else in his pocket at this point.

[Exp0sed]

this series isn't over yet, imo

I undestand why conventional wisdom (and logic, probability etc.) is that PHX will have a hard time beating Denver in game 7 in Denver but stranger things have happened

eh, I think Denver has made the last adjustment of the series. I doubt Monty has anything else in his pocket at this point.

well ya know, Denver's role players have been a no-show on the road all season. assuming PHX prevails at home, then it's just one game
it doesn't have to be an adjustment..maybe CP3 comes back and turns back the clock, maybe a player gets a minor injury or gets ejected (game 6\7 cam get pretty chirpy) or maybe Booker and KD just get hot and can't miss

these teams are pretty evenly matched, ya never know

[Wolfgang630]

Denver’s role players gotta magically show up in Phoenix for Denver to have a chance.

[Beethoven]

I see pho beating Denver game 6.

Booker and durant should have one phenomenal game 7 to take the series.

You never know.

[Luke Skyowner]

Watch on YouTube

The fat racist in the middle is ridiculously dumb individual.

With a nasty ass smirk on his face when other guy is applauding Jokic

[Ryoga Hibiki]

there is "not as good" and there is the slander Booker has unfairly taken lately as soon as he isnt playing perfectly.

well, the slander he took last year came from an unprecedented smashing in game 7 playing extremely poorly after he trash talked and laughed throughout the series.
if you play this kind of games you must be ready to take it if things don't go your way



to be honest I have now a hard time figuring out how good Booker really is, I would need a bigger sample size. If he hits his shots like in game 3 and 4 he's the goat, easily, but I am not sure you can count on that.

so based on his performance in this year's playoffs (or at least this series), he isn't deserving of slander then, correct? no argument he's been a top 5 player in the postseason and hasn't even trash talked that much this time. and this series is not at all like the second round last year. CP3 out, no home court, superior opponent, etc.

and you know full well it's not just been games 3-4. 11 games is plenty big of a sample size. Not to reference Jordan like so many tweets have but Booker's run this year is basically Jordan's 87-88 run, and the latter is still well regarded despite him not getting out of the second round himself. regardless of the outcome on Thursday, you simply cannot legitimately claim that Booker disappointed in any way.

2 playoff rounds is not really much of sample size either, though.
I also think you are going to far with the "slander" discussion. Nobody thinks Booker is some sort of bum, but questioning if what we saw recently is more tham a hot streak is more than fair.

[DoctorX]

And as predictable when Denver wins the game idiots from lamestream media are only talking about the Suns and how their team is flawed, not enough help and blah blah. Zero criticism of their stars and no nice words for the winners. When Denver lose the game, they only all talk how Booker and Durant are the great players

That was always the case during the Spurs championship years. This usually happens with small markets that have no player that is "face of the league". Jokic is not considered a face of the league type of guy like Lebron, Curry, Durant, etc. I think right now he's the best player in the league but he's not marketable like those guys are and hence why the media tries to downplay him and his team. I personally find him more exciting than those guys listed above but the media is not a fan of his and hence will try to discredit him at every opportunity.

I am aware of that. But this with Jokic and Denver is on another level. Its a full blown campaign to diminish Jokic imprint on the game and to belittle him in the comparison to the other stars in the league and to have only negative coverage about Nuggets. Its ridiculous.

I'm well aware of this I saw the same disrespect towards Tim Duncan during the late 90's and early '00s. I saw how the media said his first title deserved an asterisk and discredited him. Then they said both of his MVPs were not legit and stolen and how Kidd and KG should have had them instead of him until he shut them up by winning in '03. I also saw them disrespect Duncan after David Robinson retired by saying he would never win another title without him. Small markets and great players who are not media friendly have always been disrespected and discredited by the media. Jokic and the Nuggets are not the first to go through this and won't be the last.

[Bobbymcgee]

Phoenix small market = Ayton disrespected

[Run DLC]

Let’s go Nuggets! Get it done! The excuses are already coming out for Kevin “GOAT” Durant.