NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[Hello Brooklyn]

Embiid vs Jokic

The meeting that will set twitter on fire as finally arrived. Rarely do Embiid and Jokic get to play against each other being in separate conferences, and after missing each other earlier this year, tonight will be their only matchup of the regular season.

While the statsexuals will try and convince everyone why Jokic is the MVP, real hoopers will explain why it is Embiid’s award to lose.

Is that you, Hello Brooklyn?

LMAO.

Anyone who doesn't think Jokic is Jesus Christ is apparently chastised in this thread.

[Hello Brooklyn]

"Anthony Davis destroyed him"

No he didn't. He had to go practically alone against AD, Howard and McGee, as his backup was Mason Plumlee, who was by far the worst amongst the said 5 players. Without LeBron, Anthony Davis is irrelevant.

He absolutely did destroy him. It wasn't even close stats wise. And that doesn't take into account his horrific defense.

21/7/5 v 31/6/2

NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Yeah but Dwight Howard and McGee are some fearsome DPOY of the year type players.

Give me a break. Theyre both scrubs.

Jokic was not even the best player on his own team in that series or playoff bubble run. If not for Jamal Murray going off for 50 multiple times he goes home in the first round.

Every time DHo played defense on Jokic he was essentially committing flagrant fouls.

At this point you’re just trolling, you have to be.

And whoever said “real hoopers” lmao…

Dwight Howard is playing in China and somehow he had the ability to shut down the "greatest offensive player of this generation."

These excuses keep getting more and more laughable.

[Statlanta]

If 2020 Embiid faced that version of Dwight Howard, Adam Silver would have given Dwight 42 personal fouls just for looking at Embiid.

Embiid is an MVP candidate. He has many opportunities to win the 2023 MVP award if he stays healthy. He himself has a limiting factor in this race just like Jokic has and that is his games played. He will need to outplay the candidates significantly if he wants to win the award.

[moderndarwin]

Steph
Lebron
Giannis
KD
———-
the rest

They’re still the tier 1 until I see otherwise. Fancy regular seasons don’t change the fact. You can give the Malones of this era the MVP but we all know it goes:

Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe
Lebron, Steph, KD, Giannis
TBD, TBD, TBD, TBD

Maybe Joker, Luka, Tatum, Embiid are the top contenders for this next go around but it remains to be seen…don’t think they’ve displaced the 4 kings yet

[Infinite Llamas]

Steph
Lebron
Giannis
KD
———-
the rest

They’re still the tier 1 until I see otherwise. Fancy regular seasons don’t change the fact. You can give the Malones of this era the MVP but we all know it goes:

Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe
Lebron, Steph, KD, Giannis
TBD, TBD, TBD, TBD

Maybe Joker, Luka, Tatum, Embiid are the top contenders for this next go around but it remains to be seen…don’t think they’ve displaced the 4 kings yet

One of your kings has missed 13 games already
Another of your kings has a 19-21 record
Another of your kings just had a 0.7 game score and got blown out by the lowly Hornets.

This isn’t a legacy award. Thank god.

Your “kings” are being usurped and your nostalgia can’t stop this from happening. KD is still on a contender, but I can easily see Tatum/Jokic/Luka leading their team to the promised land.

[moderndarwin]

You’re right it’s now become a usage award.

[Infinite Llamas]

You’re right it’s now become a usage award.

Usage %
1 Giannis
7 Lebron
10 Durant
14 Curry

25 Jokic

Is it now?

[BigGargamel]

You’re right it’s now become a usage award.

Usage %
1 Giannis
7 Lebron
10 Durant
14 Curry

25 Jokic

Is it now?

LOL. I get people get tired of seeing the same players/teams dominate but the arguments against Jokic are so lazy and baseless. Like it or not, he’s the regular season MVP again.

[The High Cyde]

Jokic just seems inevitable.

[AleksandarN]

Just stop.

There’s maybe 2-3 players in NBA history that could have dragged that roster to the playoffs, let alone a top 6 seed.

This is just embarrassing at this point.

Yeah youre right. Jokic is one of the 2-3 best player in NBA history.

Thats essentially what youre arguing.

And my arguments are embarrassing.

I'm not sure if its so much his arguments as your comprehension of them.

Statement 1: Jokic did not lead his depleted team to a top seed.

Statement 2: Only 2-3 players in history could have led that roster to a top seed.

You conclusion: You're saying Jokic is a top 2-3 player I'm history?!

Really all the second Statement does is say that Jokic is NOT one of the two or three players who could take that roster to the top seed. You can't conclude anything else about how your discussion partner rates him all time.

Though just for fun, I'm thinking 2009 LeBron (I think he got better as a player, but this was the peak of his energy to do it all and carry) and maybe early 70s Kareem as the 2 most likely to be able to do it.

He really is terrible at trolling isn’t he

[Hello Brooklyn]

Steph
Lebron
Giannis
KD
———-
the rest

They’re still the tier 1 until I see otherwise. Fancy regular seasons don’t change the fact. You can give the Malones of this era the MVP but we all know it goes:

Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe
Lebron, Steph, KD, Giannis
TBD, TBD, TBD, TBD

Maybe Joker, Luka, Tatum, Embiid are the top contenders for this next go around but it remains to be seen…don’t think they’ve displaced the 4 kings yet

I agree 100%. And you can throw Kawhi in there too.

Until you prove you can do it at the highest level you are not in the same tier as those guys.

[Infinite Llamas]

Steph
Lebron
Giannis
KD
———-
the rest

They’re still the tier 1 until I see otherwise. Fancy regular seasons don’t change the fact. You can give the Malones of this era the MVP but we all know it goes:

Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe
Lebron, Steph, KD, Giannis
TBD, TBD, TBD, TBD

Maybe Joker, Luka, Tatum, Embiid are the top contenders for this next go around but it remains to be seen…don’t think they’ve displaced the 4 kings yet

I agree 100%. And you can throw Kawhi in there too.

Until you prove you can do it at the highest level you are not in the same tier as those guys.

More like until you can prove it playing alongside Wade/Bosh/Kyrie/Love/AD/Draymond/Klay/Middleton/ Holiday/Siakam/Lowry/Duncan/Parker/Ginobili

I refuse to judge Jokic’s team accomplishments until he plays with HOF/all stars like those other guys did. There is precious little to debate until he gets the same help that these guys got.

[eyeatoma]

Embiid vs Jokic

The meeting that will set twitter on fire as finally arrived. Rarely do Embiid and Jokic get to play against each other being in separate conferences, and after missing each other earlier this year, tonight will be their only matchup of the regular season.

While the statsexuals will try and convince everyone why Jokic is the MVP, real hoopers will explain why it is Embiid’s award to lose.

Is that you, Hello Brooklyn?

LMAO.

Anyone who doesn't think Jokic is Jesus Christ is apparently chastised in this thread.

Now you see what I have to deal with in this thread, and essentially on this defacto Nuggets Board.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Steph
Lebron
Giannis
KD
———-
the rest

They’re still the tier 1 until I see otherwise. Fancy regular seasons don’t change the fact. You can give the Malones of this era the MVP but we all know it goes:

Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe
Lebron, Steph, KD, Giannis
TBD, TBD, TBD, TBD

Maybe Joker, Luka, Tatum, Embiid are the top contenders for this next go around but it remains to be seen…don’t think they’ve displaced the 4 kings yet

I agree 100%. And you can throw Kawhi in there too.

Until you prove you can do it at the highest level you are not in the same tier as those guys.

More like until you can prove it playing alongside Wade/Bosh/Kyrie/Love/AD/Draymond/Klay/Middleton/ Holiday/Siakam/Lowry/Duncan/Parker/Ginobili

I refuse to judge Jokic’s team accomplishments until he plays with HOF/all stars like those other guys did. There is precious little to debate until he gets the same help that these guys got.

Yeah thats a joke.

Jokic had a Championship level roster in the bubble and was horrible in the WCF. Got his lunch eaten by AD.

Last 2 years he had the injury excuse.

I'm not just going to pretend hes a Championship level player based on flashy regular season stats. He has to earn that respect.

If were just going by regular seasons then Harden/Malone should be in the same conversation as Jordan/LeBron.

Its a stupid argument. Winning matters. You don't think those guys will bring up their teammates?

[Infinite Llamas]

Championship level roster lmao

Jokic took 26 free throws that series despite getting mugged and brawled by Dwight Howard. Watch those games again and tell me it wasn’t biased refereeing but you won’t…because it won’t fit your narrative.

Winning matters. Elite teammates matters. 6 great games by Murray and hobbled Millsap/Harris surely isn’t an elite squad.

[maxwellcu]

Is that you, Hello Brooklyn?

LMAO.

Anyone who doesn't think Jokic is Jesus Christ is apparently chastised in this thread.

Now you see what I have to deal with in this thread, and essentially on this defacto Nuggets Board.

REAL. HOOPERS. KNOW.

[Cubbies2120]

I agree 100%. And you can throw Kawhi in there too.

Until you prove you can do it at the highest level you are not in the same tier as those guys.

More like until you can prove it playing alongside Wade/Bosh/Kyrie/Love/AD/Draymond/Klay/Middleton/ Holiday/Siakam/Lowry/Duncan/Parker/Ginobili

I refuse to judge Jokic’s team accomplishments until he plays with HOF/all stars like those other guys did. There is precious little to debate until he gets the same help that these guys got.

Yeah thats a joke.

Jokic had a Championship level roster in the bubble and was horrible in the WCF. Got his lunch eaten by AD.

Last 2 years he had the injury excuse.

I'm not just going to pretend hes a Championship level player based on flashy regular season stats. He has to earn that respect.

If were just going by regular seasons then Harden/Malone should be in the same conversation as Jordan/LeBron.

Its a stupid argument. Winning matters. You don't think those guys will bring up their teammates?

Was horrible in the WCF? Lol fam cmon.

Also are we talking about pre-MVP Jokic? Do you think he was the same player in 2020 as he was in 2022 and now 2023?

The only 3 teams to beat Jokic in the playoffs since he became an MVP candidate are the following:
NBA Champions
WC Champs
NBA Champions

He doesn't lose to non-contenders in the playoffs...

Now add onto this that he was missing his #2 in the last two seasons...it's not reasonable to expect him to get past the best team in the NBA...he did his job.

[BelgradeNugget]

I agree 100%. And you can throw Kawhi in there too.

Until you prove you can do it at the highest level you are not in the same tier as those guys.

More like until you can prove it playing alongside Wade/Bosh/Kyrie/Love/AD/Draymond/Klay/Middleton/ Holiday/Siakam/Lowry/Duncan/Parker/Ginobili

I refuse to judge Jokic’s team accomplishments until he plays with HOF/all stars like those other guys did. There is precious little to debate until he gets the same help that these guys got.

Yeah thats a joke.

Jokic had a Championship level roster in the bubble and was horrible in the WCF. Got his lunch eaten by AD.

Last 2 years he had the injury excuse.

I'm not just going to pretend hes a Championship level player based on flashy regular season stats. He has to earn that respect.

If were just going by regular seasons then Harden/Malone should be in the same conversation as Jordan/LeBron.

Its a stupid argument. Winning matters. You don't think those guys will bring up their teammates?

After so many words you wrote here all can be put in two words:
stupid argument

[Hello Brooklyn]

More like until you can prove it playing alongside Wade/Bosh/Kyrie/Love/AD/Draymond/Klay/Middleton/ Holiday/Siakam/Lowry/Duncan/Parker/Ginobili

I refuse to judge Jokic’s team accomplishments until he plays with HOF/all stars like those other guys did. There is precious little to debate until he gets the same help that these guys got.

Yeah thats a joke.

Jokic had a Championship level roster in the bubble and was horrible in the WCF. Got his lunch eaten by AD.

Last 2 years he had the injury excuse.

I'm not just going to pretend hes a Championship level player based on flashy regular season stats. He has to earn that respect.

If were just going by regular seasons then Harden/Malone should be in the same conversation as Jordan/LeBron.

Its a stupid argument. Winning matters. You don't think those guys will bring up their teammates?

Was horrible in the WCF? Lol fam cmon.

Also are we talking about pre-MVP Jokic? Do you think he was the same player in 2020 as he was in 2022 and now 2023?

The only 3 teams to beat Jokic in the playoffs since he became an MVP candidate are the following:
NBA Champions
WC Champs
NBA Champions

He doesn't lose to non-contenders in the playoffs...

Now add onto this that he was missing his #2 in the last two seasons...it's not reasonable to expect him to get past the best team in the NBA...he did his job.

Of course hes losing to good teams. He doesn't get good seeds so he has to play the best teams early on.

What a ridiculous argument.

The point is he hasn't proven it at the highest level. I'm just supposed to assume he can do it because hes been without Jamal Murray for the last 2 playoffs?

2020 he had his chance and he played poorly. Lets see what happens this season.

[Hello Brooklyn]

More like until you can prove it playing alongside Wade/Bosh/Kyrie/Love/AD/Draymond/Klay/Middleton/ Holiday/Siakam/Lowry/Duncan/Parker/Ginobili

I refuse to judge Jokic’s team accomplishments until he plays with HOF/all stars like those other guys did. There is precious little to debate until he gets the same help that these guys got.

Yeah thats a joke.

Jokic had a Championship level roster in the bubble and was horrible in the WCF. Got his lunch eaten by AD.

Last 2 years he had the injury excuse.

I'm not just going to pretend hes a Championship level player based on flashy regular season stats. He has to earn that respect.

If were just going by regular seasons then Harden/Malone should be in the same conversation as Jordan/LeBron.

Its a stupid argument. Winning matters. You don't think those guys will bring up their teammates?

After so many words you wrote here all can be put in two words:
stupid argument

Wow. Compelling counter.