NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

[Blaze4G]

I am surprised by the votes. I haven't been here in a while but right now imo its Embiid and its not close. I am now going to account for "if he plays enough games". As of right now he still qualifies.

I am no jokic hater either, my history will show I had jokic the pass 2 years for MVP and thought embiid crying made him win last year lol.

If I was to bet who wins, sure I don't think embiid will play enough games so I would give it to jokic or SGA. My preseason pick was Ant or SGA.

How is it “Embiid and not close” when he never plays? Whether he’s on a pace to be eligible for a cutoff or not, he’s about to have missed 3x as many games as Jokic, SGA, and Giannis COMBINED.

Sure, in the top rate stats, he ranks 1st, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, but in the stats that account for how much someone’s actually been on the floor, he ranks 4th, 4th, and 5th. And it’s even worse than that because the games he’s missed have been heavily slanted towards the tougher games where the Sixers need him most, hurting his value while also inflating his per minute numbers.

Finally, the Thunder with SGA on the floor and the Nuggets with Jokic on the floor both have a better NetRtg on a per minute basis than the Sixers with Embiid even though he’s played an easier schedule and their teams have been much worse when they’re on the bench than the Sixers with Embiid on the bench.

Just decided to wait a few weeks before replying to this because I believed Embiid would prove it without me having to debate.

As I said, Embiid is the clear front runner and its not close. He just needs to meet the games played threshold and its his for the taking. Honestly, don't believe there is anything any other MVP contender can do to catch him. The only way he loses is:
1. The games played threshold
2. He plays like absolute **** the rest of the way / Philly falls under 6th seed.

[LordCovington33]

Not to mention this guys math then implies other players are playing 82... which they aren't lol.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

You’re right, Jokic and SGA are only on pace to play 80 games. Big difference.

If SGA and Jokic play more games than Embiid but Embiid wins the MVP, your gripe is with Adam Silver and not Embiid. Embiid doesn't make the rules he just plays the game.

As long as he hits the minimum number of games, he will win based on current form. The reason for the min game requirement is to take games played out of the equation when voting. The only thing stopping him will be whether he qualifies.

[CobraCommander]

Only in 2024 could you go 31, 17 and 10 and lose ground in the mvp race - signed Giannis

[LordCovington33]

The latest odds:
https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/mvp/

[BigGargamel]

I'm a Nuggets fan.

Embiid deserves it this year.
He did not deserve it last year.
If he plays 65 games, the MVP is his. That's the cutoff, doesn't matter how many games the other guys play. he got the cutoff.
He better show up in Denver this weekend. Ducking Jokic on his home court once again would be quite the embarrassment.
People are going to be apprehensive until he does this in the playoffs. Just like they were with Jokic. Tatum, Giannis and Jokic have brought their teams to the Finals. Embiid hasn't come close. No more excuses for that guy.

[Chokic]

‘He load manages to stay fresh’
‘He only plays against the weaker teams’
‘Stat pads’

Some serious mental gymnastics going on here. Just recognise it for what it is, an all time great talent (I won’t say player yet, will need to see some post season success), playing at the absolute highest level of the game. SGA is great, but as usual this is going to end up being a 2 horse race between two ridiculously good centres

Jokic is playing worse this season than his previous 2 mvp seaons and the nuggets are worse this year than last year how can he be 2nd in mvp running currently. Unless youre implying Jokics worse mvp season is still better than what SGA has been doing.

[Dirk]

Sucks that Embiid goes for 700 and Cubies is in the sin bin.

[JustBuzzin]

I'm a Nuggets fan.

Embiid deserves it this year.
He did not deserve it last year.
If he plays 65 games, the MVP is his. That's the cutoff, doesn't matter how many games the other guys play. he got the cutoff.
He better show up in Denver this weekend. Ducking Jokic on his home court once again would be quite the embarrassment.
People are going to be apprehensive until he does this in the playoffs. Just like they were with Jokic. Tatum, Giannis and Jokic have brought their teams to the Finals. Embiid hasn't come close. No more excuses for that guy.

Bro Embiid just beat Jokic and had a better game. How is it you people just make up stuff to fit your narrative?

Embiid is currently the best player in the world. Stop trying to discredit him. Jokic has 1 championship you act like this man sitting on 5 championships or something.

This Embiid slander is reaching LeBron level. People will hate for no reason. The man just dropped 70 and beat Jokic just last week and all you can talk about is him ducking another player smh.

Stop the nonsense please!

[BigGargamel]

I'm a Nuggets fan.

Embiid deserves it this year.
He did not deserve it last year.
If he plays 65 games, the MVP is his. That's the cutoff, doesn't matter how many games the other guys play. he got the cutoff.
He better show up in Denver this weekend. Ducking Jokic on his home court once again would be quite the embarrassment.
People are going to be apprehensive until he does this in the playoffs. Just like they were with Jokic. Tatum, Giannis and Jokic have brought their teams to the Finals. Embiid hasn't come close. No more excuses for that guy.

Bro Embiid just beat Jokic and had a better game. How is it you people just make up stuff to fit your narrative?

Embiid is currently the best player in the world. Stop trying to discredit him. Jokic has 1 championship you act like this man sitting on 5 championships or something.

This Embiid slander is reaching LeBron level. People will hate for no reason. The man just dropped 70 and beat Jokic just last week and all you can talk about is him ducking another player smh.

Stop the nonsense please!

Nothing I said was hate or discredit. I don't have a narrative. I'm not a sports journalist nor a child. Not sure why you're quoting me but okay. Try to read and comprehend next time please.

I literally said he was the MVP and have been saying it most of the season. I find a lot of the Embiid takes hilarious. I also said I hope he decides he wants to play on Denver's home court, something he never does.

I want him to do well in the playoffs. I think a Denver vs. Philly NBA Finals would be fantastic for the league.

[Hussien Fatal]

Embiid is the mvp no doubt about it he’s played over 10 less games than Jokic and sga but that doesn’t seem to matter at all because he’s been significantly better than both players all season long.

[_NoMas]

‘He load manages to stay fresh’
‘He only plays against the weaker teams’
‘Stat pads’

Some serious mental gymnastics going on here. Just recognise it for what it is, an all time great talent (I won’t say player yet, will need to see some post season success), playing at the absolute highest level of the game. SGA is great, but as usual this is going to end up being a 2 horse race between two ridiculously good centres

Jokic is playing worse this season than his previous 2 mvp seaons and the nuggets are worse this year than last year how can he be 2nd in mvp running currently. Unless youre implying Jokics worse mvp season is still better than what SGA has been doing.

That’s exactly what I’m implying. It’s not relevant whether Jokic is playing better than last year or any other year, it’s whether he’s better this year then SGA. I think he has been

[iggymcfrack]

‘He load manages to stay fresh’
‘He only plays against the weaker teams’
‘Stat pads’

Some serious mental gymnastics going on here. Just recognise it for what it is, an all time great talent (I won’t say player yet, will need to see some post season success), playing at the absolute highest level of the game. SGA is great, but as usual this is going to end up being a 2 horse race between two ridiculously good centres

Jokic is playing worse this season than his previous 2 mvp seaons and the nuggets are worse this year than last year how can he be 2nd in mvp running currently. Unless youre implying Jokics worse mvp season is still better than what SGA has been doing.

Well this is just verifiably false. Last year, the Nuggets won 64.6% of their games and had an SRS of 3.04. This year, the Nuggets have won 68.2% of their games and have an SRS of 5.07.

As for Jokic being worse, his PER, WS/48, and BPM are all up from last year and he’s on pace to play 11 more games than he did last season. His on/off did go down from +21.9 to +18.9, but that mark is still far ahead of any of the other MVP candidates. It may even lead the league.

[Special_Puppy]

Embiid is the mvp no doubt about it he’s played over 10 less games than Jokic and sga but that doesn’t seem to matter at all because he’s been significantly better than both players all season long.

I don't agree that Embiid has been playing so much better than Jokic as to overwhelm the 9 game gap between them. Jokic is still ahead (albeit very narrowly in some cases) in DPM+LEBRON+BPM+Time-Decay RAPM. Embiid does have a big lead in EPM so you could make a very good case that he's been ever so slightly better than Jokic on a per possession basis this year, but you'd would need a huge gap like the one EPM shows to argue that Embiid has accumulated more WAR than Jokic so far and I just don't think that's the case

[losmi]

Embiid works hard to break his record from the last year when his ppg drop in the playoffs compared to the regular season was historical -10.

If he maintains 36.1ppg till the end of the regular season, he might even hit -15 this year.

[Edvan88]

Currently, Embiid is playing better than Jokic imo and is probably leading the MVP race. However, the number of games played/missed is a valid argument. And people need to stop just looking at the number of games played/missed but also which games were missed. Embiid has missed 10 games so far this season, 8 games on the road and only 2 games at home (he has played 11 road games only and 21 road games and that's a huge difference). The road games missed are MIN, NOP, BOS, MIA, ORL, HOU, CHI, ATL. 1 team out of the play-in (bottom 10 teams), and the other 7 all in play-in or a playoff spot.

[CobraCommander]

Currently, Embiid is playing better than Jokic imo and is probably leading the MVP race. However, the number of games played/missed is a valid argument. And people need to stop just looking at the number of games played/missed but also which games were missed. Embiid has missed 10 games so far this season, 8 games on the road and only 2 games at home (he has played 11 road games only and 21 road games and that's a huge difference). The road games missed are MIN, NOP, BOS, MIA, ORL, HOU, CHI, ATL. 1 team out of the play-in (bottom 10 teams), and the other 7 all in play-in or a playoff spot.

This is implying Embiid is intentionally ducking teams - right?

If true, he isn’t the mvp-

[dygaction]

Embiid works hard to break his record from the last year when his ppg drop in the playoffs compared to the regular season was historical -10.

If he maintains 36.1ppg till the end of the regular season, he might even hit -15 this year.

Nah you will eat your crow as 25 is achiebable barring injury or exceptions

[Jaqua92]

Embiid is the mvp no doubt about it he’s played over 10 less games than Jokic and sga but that doesn’t seem to matter at all because he’s been significantly better than both players all season long.

Embiid leads the NBA in PER, PIE, EPM and currently ws/48 (which varies on a nightly basis between he and Jokic)

Jokic leads in BPM, VORP, DRIP, DARKO, LEBRON, and craftedPM which is a culmative formulated measure which factors in a variety of major impact starts.

Embiid leads in 4 major advanced impact metrics, Jokic leads in 6, and that switches to 3/7 depending on who snags the WS/48 lead.

Jokic leads the NBA in more impact metrics than anyone else, despite playing the worst stretch of basketball in his career in December.

Embiid has been, at best, equal to Jokic's impact this season.

Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

[losmi]

Embiid works hard to break his record from the last year when his ppg drop in the playoffs compared to the regular season was historical -10.

If he maintains 36.1ppg till the end of the regular season, he might even hit -15 this year.

Nah you will eat your crow as 25 is achiebable barring injury or exceptions

In two of his last four playoff series (last two years), he was averaging 20ppg, so <= 21.1 seems perfectly possible. For example, if they draw Miami in the 1st round, that would be a first round exit with ~20ppg, which makes around -15ppg drop. That will become one of the most unbreakable records in sports, a truly historical achievement.

[brettski]

My god, some of you can't even give someone props on a historic night. Must be so miserable to constantly bring in this negativity...

Maybe some of us are just getting a bit too much fatigue from certain posters ramming Embiid down our throats to want to come here and celebrate his amazing game. By the way since you said what you said in that quote I went back to check what your comments were like when Giannis scored 64 (only 6 points less) on 13 fewer shots while shooting 71% from the field just 6 or so weeks ago.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2338714&start=340

Page 18 of 93.

Over 30 fts for Giannis. But Embiid is a FT merchant lol.
And how about the Stat padding accusations? Embiid could have easily gotten 60. He has sat 1/3 of games this season because he has been so dominant.
Giannis is a battering ram.. Half of his drives are charges.

3 negative Giannis posts (you called him a FT merchant, stat padder and half his drives are charges) in one page, in different posts, straight after he scored 64. That doesn't look like just celebrating a historic night - which it was, franchise highest game score.