NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sports

[ILOVEIT]

Agreed.

One thing you must understand is that the plight of Black people in America is truly, truly unique.

There is no real precendence.

After slavery, we never left this place; perhaps we should have.

Ok. I'll bite.

Single motherhood is not a precursor for poverty or crime. Poverty is a precursor for poverty or crime. It makes little sense that two poor people marrying would add more stability.

On rap music: You obviously don't listen to rap, as the general culture of it has gone far far away from "gangster" culture, but anyway. It's a medium of entertainment. I don't many blaming Breaking Bad for the popularization of meth usage in the United States(whites use drugs at a higher rate, but black people are arrested for it at a higher rate). People don't blame Breaking Bad and other crime glorifying television because it's dumb to do.

Agree....and it's really hard to say that vilolent rap is a result of social/cultural conflict or a promoter of it....But I tend to think that it is a reflection of the current struggles etc.... 60's was about relfecting the issues in Vietnam....disenfranchised youth against Richard Nixon and the War. Same type of stuff....and not really anything other than a representation of a PART of what was/is going on in the communities at the time.

I think what really needs to be considered is the concept of exploitation....not race. Exploiting has many options and variables and race is just one of them. What is consistant about exploitation is that those doing it are well off....of many colors...exploiting their brothers...regardless of color.

Blacks sold blacks for money to slave traders....white rolyalty ensalved and exploited white peasants and the poor in Europe for thousands of years...woman have been raped by men of all colors for thousands of years.

It seems odd a bit...that when the colors ever cross...people pay attention....when all the while these same things go quietly on when commited by and against brothers of the same color (white....also being a color).

It would REALLY be nice if we could at some point call crime against humanity just what it is...and pay equal attention to all of it.

And end the end...maybe this is really a guy thing....and we should all get our act together before women decide they don't need us anymore lol

[Rip It]

Question About Mike Brown Leads to Beating in St. Louis - CNN.com

Long story short:
Hardworking white man sits down in rail car.
Black thug who reads at a 3rd-grade level next to him asks him about deceased violent thug Michael Brown.
Hardworking white man chooses not to get into the issue, knowing it would cause problems.
Black thug who reads at a 3rd-grade level assaults hardworking white man.
It's all caught on tape.

[ALL HAIL]

Question About Mike Brown Leads to Beating in St. Louis - CNN.com

Long story short:
Hardworking white man sits down in rail car.
Black thug who reads at a 3rd-grade level next to him asks him about deceased violent thug Michael Brown.
Hardworking white man chooses not to get into the issue, knowing it would cause problems.
Black thug who reads at a 3rd-grade level assaults hardworking white man.
It's all caught on tape.

Despite your overtones, and without reading the article (just your lovely synopsis), it sounds like a complete and utter act of ignorance.

If what you are describing is accurate, there is absolutely no excuse or justification for that type of ignorance.

If true, the guy that did the beating is no better, or worse than the guy who killed Eric Garner or any other person who is killed or hurt from unsolicited, grotesque acts of violence.

[jason bourne]

Question About Mike Brown Leads to Beating in St. Louis - CNN.com

Long story short:
Hardworking white man sits down in rail car.
Black thug who reads at a 3rd-grade level next to him asks him about deceased violent thug Michael Brown.
Hardworking white man chooses not to get into the issue, knowing it would cause problems.
Black thug who reads at a 3rd-grade level assaults hardworking white man.
It's all caught on tape.

What does this have to do with the NBAPA?

I say let 'em play at 18.

[Pointgod]

Question About Mike Brown Leads to Beating in St. Louis - CNN.com

Long story short:
Hardworking white man sits down in rail car.
Black thug who reads at a 3rd-grade level next to him asks him about deceased violent thug Michael Brown.
Hardworking white man chooses not to get into the issue, knowing it would cause problems.
Black thug who reads at a 3rd-grade level assaults hardworking white man.
It's all caught on tape.

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/former-cardinals-player-punched-at-st-louis-county-gas-station/article_7b39822e-14da-56c5-b52c-4921ab5eda85.html?mobile_touch=true

Typical coward piece of trash sucker punches an unsuspecting person.
Tells him to go back to Ferguson because of course all black people come from Ferguson.
Top it off yells a racial slur at the former player.
Sounds like a typical low education, low life loser that likes to generalize black people.

[MotownMadness]

That Wisconsin team must be like "Is this racist for all of us white guys as well?" Lol

[GYK]

Jew thread locked. Race related threads should be locked.

[Star-Lord]

Question About Mike Brown Leads to Beating in St. Louis - CNN.com

Long story short:
Hardworking white man sits down in rail car.
Black thug who reads at a 3rd-grade level next to him asks him about deceased violent thug Michael Brown.
Hardworking white man chooses not to get into the issue, knowing it would cause problems.
Black thug who reads at a 3rd-grade level assaults hardworking white man.
It's all caught on tape.

Despite your overtones, and without reading the article (just your lovely synopsis), it sounds like a complete and utter act of ignorance.

If what you are describing is accurate

It isn't. It's just vile. There's no mention of the suspects education level, just a bigot projecting.

Obviously, it's a sad story about something that never should have happened, but bigots like Rip It only serve to exasperate problems.

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/former-cardinals-player-punched-at-st-louis-county-gas-station/article_7b39822e-14da-56c5-b52c-4921ab5eda85.html?mobile_touch=true

Typical coward piece of trash sucker punches an unsuspecting person.
Tells him to go back to Ferguson because of course all black people come from Ferguson.
Top it off yells a racial slur at the former player.
Sounds like a typical low education, low life loser that likes to generalize black people.

St. Louis is just **** awful.

Jew thread locked. Race related threads should be locked.

What's with all the incessant back seat modding going on around this forum lately?

Get it through your head. If you don't like something, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CLICK ON IT, OR GIVE IT ANY KIND OF ATTENTION. Just move the **** on.

[Sixerscan]

The NBAPA lawyer did not say the age limit was racist, he said it was a double-standard, which I agree with.

Racial double standards = racism.
NBAPA lawyer was explicit enough.

I think there's a difference between 'racist' and 'discriminatory', which is how I personally view his statements.

racist- having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.
discriminatory- making or showing an unfair or prejudicial distinction between different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

As far as your other statement goes, yes most minor leaguers never make the majors. But that's a decision that's afforded to each baseball player. They actually have that option to pursue a professional career instead of college, and those that are highly regarded sign pretty big contracts right out of high school.

Are you in support of the age limit in the NBA? I don't think it's an all-or-nothing issue. The reason it exists has more to do with the 'college sports industry' than anything else. I think NBA revenue and popularity is now big enough to support a development system like baseball, and that would be the best scenario. College would still be an option for players who want to simultaneously pursue a degree, as it is for college baseball players.

I don't think it's a "support" thing. If this was a government agency, I would be all about getting rid of the age limit. But it's not, it's a business. And as long as the NCAA continues to exist as a free minor league system and PR machine, I don't see how you can justify the NBA paying any more from a business POV. In fact, I think that's the only way you make the argument. "The NCAA will have to start paying their players one day and won't be able to continue as it exists today, so let's get out in front of it now"

Honestly though, the baseball minor league system is rambunctiously inefficient. How much does each team spend every year developing 150 guys, ~140 of which will probably never even make the big leagues? Does that make any sense to anyone? If they were starting that league today, and they didn't have all of these minor league baseball towns that have had teams for 50 years, I really don't think they would set up the system the way they have it.

[Star-Lord]

[
Honestly though, the baseball minor league system is rambunctiously inefficient. How much does each team spend every year developing 150 guys, ~140 of which will probably never even make the big leagues? Does that make any sense to anyone? If they were starting that league today, and they didn't have all of these minor league baseball towns that have had teams for 50 years, I really don't think they would set up the system the way they have it.

No big league team does that. Most of the resources are devoted to the few major prospects in each respective club. Nobody is wasting time trying to fix the swing of a 28 year old who's still in single A. Those guys are simply fodder, bodies to put on the field so that those top level prospects and bonus babies can get actual game experience.

[Sixerscan]

[
Honestly though, the baseball minor league system is rambunctiously inefficient. How much does each team spend every year developing 150 guys, ~140 of which will probably never even make the big leagues? Does that make any sense to anyone? If they were starting that league today, and they didn't have all of these minor league baseball towns that have had teams for 50 years, I really don't think they would set up the system the way they have it.

No big league team does that. Most of the resources are devoted to the few major prospects in each respective club. Nobody is wasting time trying to fix the swing of a 28 year old who's still in single A. Those guys are simply fodder, bodies to put on the field so that those top level prospects and bonus babies can get actual game experience.

I'm not just talking personal coaching. Those bodies still get uniforms, travel, locker rooms, stadiums etc. There's also the basic logistical operations of running 5 minor league teams. 5 GMs, 5 managers, 5 coaching staffs, 5 stadium operators, 5 media departments, 5 groups of people working the snack bar. Those costs add up. I'm sure the MLB wishes that college baseball had the institutional strength that basketball does.

And let's be clear, there are many things about minor league baseball that is also exploitive. Many guys get paid below the poverty level. Salaries have only gone up 75% in the last 35 years. Many of them really are " simply fodder, bodies to put on the field." Wonder what the reaction would be if the NBA instituted a similar minor league system, and the majority of players in it were treated like that...

[Star-Lord]

I'm not just talking personal coaching. Those bodies still get uniforms, travel, locker rooms, stadiums etc. There's also the basic logistical operations of running 5 minor league teams. 5 GMs, 5 managers, 5 coaching staffs, 5 stadium operators, 5 media departments, 5 groups of people working the snack bar. Those costs add up. I'm sure the MLB wishes that college baseball had the institutional strength that basketball does.

Well sure, everyone likes free. But I really think you're overstating the financial burden baseball's minor leagues have on their big league parents. Keep in mind, there's only recently been a push within some organizations to start getting minor league guys better food, instead of the historical diet of fast food and vending machines. When a group of businessmen keep a system in place for decades upon decades, it usually means that system isn't bleeding them.

And let's be clear, there is many things about minor league baseball that is also exploitive. Many guys get paid below the poverty level. Salaries have only gone up 75% in the last 35 years. Many of them really are " simply fodder, bodies to put on the field." Wonder what the reaction would be if the NBA instituted a similar minor league system, and the majority of players in it were treated like that...

Don't they already? Not every D League player is there because the club really thinks he may have a shot at making it to the bigs.

[Yoshun]

The thing about this rule that no one can deny is that it disproportionally effects black players. A poster pages back posted a list of all of the NBA players who have ever made the jump from high school to the pros, were any of them white? Not to mention this rule was put into place during a time when the NBA stated they wanted to change their image. Coincidence? Maybe, but I doubt it. Whether or not it was intentionally racist, discriminatory, etc.. doesn't really matter, because intention doesn't matter. This obviously effects a whole host of young black athlete more than it does white ones.

[Sixerscan]

I'm not just talking personal coaching. Those bodies still get uniforms, travel, locker rooms, stadiums etc. There's also the basic logistical operations of running 5 minor league teams. 5 GMs, 5 managers, 5 coaching staffs, 5 stadium operators, 5 media departments, 5 groups of people working the snack bar. Those costs add up. I'm sure the MLB wishes that college baseball had the institutional strength that basketball does.

Well sure, everyone likes free. But I really think you're overstating the financial burden baseball's minor leagues have on their big league parents. Keep in mind, there's only recently been a push within some organizations to start getting minor league guys better food, instead of the historical diet of fast food and vending machines. When a group of businessmen keep a system in place for decades upon decades, it usually means that system isn't bleeding them.

You can say the same thing about the NBA and its system. It hasn't had a serious minor league for so long and has done fine, why start now? Seems like the players are developing fine on their own.

I don't think you are necessarily wrong, but remember that those decades and decades have allowed many of the teams to actually engrain themselves in their communities.

[Star-Lord]

I don't think you are necessarily wrong, but remember that those decades and decades have allowed many of the teams to actually engrain themselves in their communities.

This is very true. I shouldn't ignore the fact that Baseball is notorious for doing things simply because, "It's the way we've always done it."

[vado]

If NBA players can get drafted out of H.S maybe they should workout two-way contracts with the NBDL? If a player gets drafted out of H.S he can make a lot of money playing in the NBA or if he's not ready he will make a reduced amount in the NBDL. Also adapt the 9 game tryout rule. A team can play the player for 9 games before deciding to keep the player in the NBA for the year and use a year of the rookie contract.

That's pretty similar to the NHL system the whitest league in North America. NBAPA can't pull the race card out on this system. H.S draft hopefuls will have to think twice before declaring because if they get stuck in the NBDL they will be making a very reduced amount. Obviously there would be a lot more details to workout with the NBDL but if they were serious about equality this would probably be the best system.

[SpeedyG]

This article would make more sense if the lawyer would just use the logical argument. They could have stopped at the fact that artists, entertainers, and those in other fields are able to make money (should they have the ability to do so) at an early age. The whole one-year of college ball is a sham, and everyone knows it. But dragging race into it is just downright stupid, yet because of the herd mentality in the US...the lawyer knows it will pick up more steam if they played the race card.

[mup]

Haven't read the entire thread but I will give some passing food for thought... There are a finite number of player jobs in the league (30 x 15). Setting an age limit negatively impacts a certain group of players who are denied entry. At the same time, it benefits a group of players who normally would have been displaced by the handful of 18 year olds who were denied entry. In other words, the age limit gives an extra year to a handful of guys who would have lost their jobs.

I have no further comment except to suggest that when you're doing a disparate impact analysis, you need to consider the makeup of the group that benefited from the policy, not just the makeup of the group who was negatively impacted by it. I'll leave it to you all to decide whether the makeup of the two groups is exactly the same in this situation.


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[Yoshun]

Haven't read the entire thread but I will give some passing food for thought... There are a finite number of player jobs in the league (30 x 15). Setting an age limit negatively impacts a certain group of players who are denied entry. At the same time, it benefits a group of players who normally would have been displaced by the handful of 18 year olds who were denied entry. In other words, the age limit gives an extra year to a handful of guys who would have lost their jobs.

I have no further comment except to suggest that when you're doing a disparate impact analysis, you need to consider the makeup of the group that benefited from the policy, not just the makeup of the group who was negatively impacted by it. I'll leave it to you all to decide whether the makeup of the two groups is exactly the same in this situation.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

The same number of players are drafted every year, meaning, theoretically, the same number of players are displaced every year. It doesn't matter how old they are. The draft class is the same number regardless. It may help some players who may not have been drafted otherwise, but that's about it.

[Sixerscan]

Haven't read the entire thread but I will give some passing food for thought... There are a finite number of player jobs in the league (30 x 15). Setting an age limit negatively impacts a certain group of players who are denied entry. At the same time, it benefits a group of players who normally would have been displaced by the handful of 18 year olds who were denied entry. In other words, the age limit gives an extra year to a handful of guys who would have lost their jobs.

I have no further comment except to suggest that when you're doing a disparate impact analysis, you need to consider the makeup of the group that benefited from the policy, not just the makeup of the group who was negatively impacted by it. I'll leave it to you all to decide whether the makeup of the two groups is exactly the same in this situation.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

The same number of players are drafted every year, meaning, theoretically, the same number of players are displaced every year. It doesn't matter how old they are. The draft class is the same number regardless. It may help some players who may not have been drafted otherwise, but that's about it.

Not quite. If the age limit is 18, the talent in the draft would be higher than if it was 19. Meaning that, last year, since Jahlil Okafor wasn't in the draft, everyone in the draft class moved up one, making it more likely that the worst veteran in the NBA is better than the worst incoming rookie. So instead of having Jahlil Okafor, you have whoever the worst guy in the NBA is.