Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[Ambrose]

The more I think about Kyrie's desicion to be traded, the more respect he deserves, imo. I completely agree with SAS here:



http://uproxx.com/dimemag/kyrie-irving-stephen-a-smith-lebron-james/

You can hate or love it, but right now Kyrie is a real man. He could have it easy and just stay in Cleveland - knowing he will be in the finals again. But he's not playing Lebron's game, because he's probably also leaving the Cavs next year.

Could the Spurs really trade for him? How good would a Spurs Team be with Kyrie? Kawhi Leonard is THE Face in San Antonio. 5% chance that Kyrie would like to go there.

Kyrie and his circle are utterly delusional. It's embarrassing.

Kyrie is an incredibly flawed player and personality. I'm certain LeBron is tired of babysitting him and trying to get him to play the right way. How bad is it? This bad (from last year when LeBron sat out a game):

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/03/kyrie_irving_shows_again_that_hes_not_ready.html

After the game, a few players were puzzled to how their point guard managed to register just one measly assist while playing 39 minutes. They were frustrated, but the win and Irving's huge defensive play lessened the anger.

The notion within the locker room is that the situation is tolerable, because it isn't permanent. If the Cavaliers were dealt the misfortune of playing without James for an extended period of time, this locker room would be boiling over.

Players are growing tired of Irving's inability to not only register a proper amount of assists at the lead guard position, but also to just move the ball.

That's not LeBron saying that, either. Those are other Cavs teammates.

That was one year ago.

Anyone think Kyrie had a miracle make-over in one season?

The more Kyrie and his circle talk, the more respect I lose for him and them. And there wasn't a large surplus to start with.

I have followed the Cavs very closely the last several years. I've seen the issues with Kyrie over and over and over again.

He has improved, but is still FAR from being ready to lead a team. As the title of that linked article states.

Kyrie should not be worried about being "sonned" or any such idiocy. He should be worried about soaking up every possible lesson he can learn from one of the three greatest players who ever lived. He should thank God every day that he got to play with LeBron.

He'll find out soon enough. He had a taste of it before LeBron came back to Ohio, and he's probably headed back to that loser position again soon.

Some people just don't get it.

Kyrie is 25 years old. When Magic was 27 years old and about to take over the team from Kareem (who was around 39 or so), here's how he felt:

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-18/sports/sp-358_1_magic-johnson

"I knew it had to start with me," he said. "I had to show everybody I was ready. I had to be an example that I would do whatever it takes to make us a winner."

Compare that with the ingrate's words.

Magic at 27 years old -----> I have to show I'm ready to lead the team and I need to do whatever it takes to help us win

Kyrie at 25 years old ------> Wahhhhhh! LeBron is "sonning" me and I'm mad! I want away from LeBron!

The amount of disgust I feel towards Kyrie about all of this is beyond my ability to convey using words.

There is nothing to respect in what Kyrie is doing now. The only appropriate feelings here are scorn, derision and disbelief.

Carmelo 2. Coming soon to a yet-unidentified team.

Someone posted stats saying Kyrie basically averaged 25/6, if that's true don't you think it's unfair to single out one game where the guy had one assist and act like it's a big deal?

He's top 5 in mpg and usage but like 17th in apg (among PG's), he's not a playmaker for others.

[flintsky21]

Kyrie and his circle are utterly delusional. It's embarrassing.

Kyrie is an incredibly flawed player and personality. I'm certain LeBron is tired of babysitting him and trying to get him to play the right way. How bad is it? This bad (from last year when LeBron sat out a game):

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/03/kyrie_irving_shows_again_that_hes_not_ready.html



That's not LeBron saying that, either. Those are other Cavs teammates.

That was one year ago.

Anyone think Kyrie had a miracle make-over in one season?

The more Kyrie and his circle talk, the more respect I lose for him and them. And there wasn't a large surplus to start with.

I have followed the Cavs very closely the last several years. I've seen the issues with Kyrie over and over and over again.

He has improved, but is still FAR from being ready to lead a team. As the title of that linked article states.

Kyrie should not be worried about being "sonned" or any such idiocy. He should be worried about soaking up every possible lesson he can learn from one of the three greatest players who ever lived. He should thank God every day that he got to play with LeBron.

He'll find out soon enough. He had a taste of it before LeBron came back to Ohio, and he's probably headed back to that loser position again soon.

Some people just don't get it.

Kyrie is 25 years old. When Magic was 27 years old and about to take over the team from Kareem (who was around 39 or so), here's how he felt:

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-18/sports/sp-358_1_magic-johnson



Compare that with the ingrate's words.

Magic at 27 years old -----> I have to show I'm ready to lead the team and I need to do whatever it takes to help us win

Kyrie at 25 years old ------> Wahhhhhh! LeBron is "sonning" me and I'm mad! I want away from LeBron!

The amount of disgust I feel towards Kyrie about all of this is beyond my ability to convey using words.

There is nothing to respect in what Kyrie is doing now. The only appropriate feelings here are scorn, derision and disbelief.

Carmelo 2. Coming soon to a yet-unidentified team.

Someone posted stats saying Kyrie basically averaged 25/6, if that's true don't you think it's unfair to single out one game where the guy had one assist and act like it's a big deal?

He's top 5 in mpg and usage but like 17th in apg (among PG's), he's not a playmaker for others.

He's sharing playmaking duties with LeBron though.

[Mikey111690]

I used to respect Kyrie. Not anymore. Demanding a trade? Cutting off all contact with the team? All this despite the fact that you still have 2 YEARS left on your contract. He's acting like a petulant little bitch. Newsflash Kyrie, you can't lead a team and you damn sure can't be the man on a team. That was obvious before LeBron ever came back. The Cavs sucked with you as much as they did without you. The Cavs were awful when it was just you on the floor instead of you and LeBron. You're a one-way PG without any playmaking ability.

The Cavs need to just trade his primadonna ass, so they can get this nonsense over with.

[Hello Brooklyn]

So I heard that Jackson could not be included until Aug 2nd correct?

I wonder IF that could be an indication as to why this deal is not done if it's starting to creep more and more and more towards there being a deal from CLE and PHX.

Honestly I think PHX would be silly to not do the deal if Cavs insist on Jackson. Yes he has some good potential, but Kyrie is already a proven all-star who is only 25 and may not even have peaked yet. Kyrie isn't a leader to me, but his game offensively is extraordinary.

It's a lot riskier to count on a rookie being great than it is to take the sure thing, Kyrie is proven. I was hesitant at first to let Wiggins go for Love bc of the what if factor, but the more I thought about it, Love was a beast, an all-star, Wiggins was unproven.I do not regret that trade one single bit.

Why would Phoenix make that trade when Kyrie doesn't want to be there?

Giving up Bledsoe is fine but Jackson is a big part of their future.

If Kyrie leaves in 2 years then there is no way thats worth it.

And there is no forseeable way for them to become contenders in the meantime and convince Kyrie to stay.

[Birdie]

Bledsoe, Jackson, Miami's 1st for Kyrie and I will drive Kyrie to the airport myself.

I really don't get Suns reluctance, Kyrie is a proven all-star, top 5 pg in the league most likely. Jackson is a 4th overall pick.

Kyrie wants to be the lead dog, there is no accounts that Kyrie would necessarily want to leave PHX in 2 years at all. Suns would be silly not to do this in my opinion.

1) "If" PHO were doing it, you don't announce it before you can even trade the guy cuz the deal could break down or somebody comes in with a better offer and CLE goes elsewhere and then you just pissed off your rook for no reason.

2) CLE might also want to dump Shump in the deal and kill 2 birds with 1 stone or CLE is insisting on PHO pick over MIA pick or haggling over protections, etc.

At the very least, we'll know something or at least an idea of what is going on next week when Jackson is eligible and it'll be more freely able to be executed.

And who knows, what if DEN comes calling with a package of Chandler/Harris/Murray + lotto protected 2018 1st, how could CLE turn that down over a Bledsoe + Jackson + 2018 MIA 1st? I'd be inclined to move Harris or Murray for other win-now parts if we could in straight up deals or attached to Shump or Frye. Numerous possibilities. Patience is key here, we got over 2 months to get something done, Kyrie and his contract isn't going anywhere. We'll see how much teams who really want Ky are willing to give up.

[Ambrose]

Someone posted stats saying Kyrie basically averaged 25/6, if that's true don't you think it's unfair to single out one game where the guy had one assist and act like it's a big deal?

He's top 5 in mpg and usage but like 17th in apg (among PG's), he's not a playmaker for others.

He's sharing playmaking duties with LeBron though.

While true, he's never topped top 15 in APG and been as low as 20th (without LeBron).

[Birdie]

So I heard that Jackson could not be included until Aug 2nd correct?

I wonder IF that could be an indication as to why this deal is not done if it's starting to creep more and more and more towards there being a deal from CLE and PHX.

Honestly I think PHX would be silly to not do the deal if Cavs insist on Jackson. Yes he has some good potential, but Kyrie is already a proven all-star who is only 25 and may not even have peaked yet. Kyrie isn't a leader to me, but his game offensively is extraordinary.

It's a lot riskier to count on a rookie being great than it is to take the sure thing, Kyrie is proven. I was hesitant at first to let Wiggins go for Love bc of the what if factor, but the more I thought about it, Love was a beast, an all-star, Wiggins was unproven.I do not regret that trade one single bit.

Why would Phoenix make that trade when Kyrie doesn't want to be there?

Giving up Bledsoe is fine but Jackson is a big part of their future.

If Kyrie leaves in 2 years then there is no way thats worth it.

And there is no forseeable way for them to become contenders in the meantime and convince Kyrie to stay.

I don't disagree with you. Any team trading for Ky who weren't on his list, I would assume, are trading for him knowing that he most likely might not want to be there and I'm sure their trade packages are reflecting that. However, they might also think of it as in those 2 years, he might put butts in their arenas and possibly make us moderately better. It's not often a 25 year old, offensively talented player, 4x All-Star, champion, modest contract comes onto the market in his prime.

Honestly, for me, DEN/PHO are the two best trading partners imo for what Cavs are targeting and could possibly receive; I propsed in T&T board a possible darkhorse in DAL (but very doubtful imo) of either Wes/DSJ/2018 DAL 1st for Kyrie/Kay or Barnes/DSJ/2018 DAL 1st for Kyrie/Frye would work too. But put Kyrie on all 3 of those teams, I don't see them making the playoffs. Maybe DAL if they send Wes instead of Barnes but still, Ky doesn't make any of those 3 teams better than the Top 3 in the West at the end of the day.

So, who knows. Like I said, you might be analyzing it from a "does this make my team better in short term/long term" viewpoint in terms of the value you'd be comfortable see be given up but maybe those GM's are looking at it from a business perspective of possibly Kyrie's starpower/hype could bring people to watch the game even though they might not be good at the expense of "potential". We shall see...

[Birdie]

He's top 5 in mpg and usage but like 17th in apg (among PG's), he's not a playmaker for others.

He's sharing playmaking duties with LeBron though.

While true, he's never topped top 15 in APG and been as low as 20th (without LeBron).

Kyrie is only a playmaker for himself. He is oblivious to weak side action he could exploit when he drives or passing among traffic. His pocket passing and lack of understanding of angles of passing is bad imo. If he had Steve Nash type instincts, he'd be completely unstoppable on offense in history of NBA. But seeing as his passing is for poppycock imo, and he loves to over-dribble/go into hero ball mode at the detriment of his team, a playmaker for others is very low on his totem pole of skills. But don't get me wrong, he "can" do it sporadically but not enough for me to make claims about him being a traditional PG. He is a scoring guard and will always be a scoring guard. You can't teach/learn BBIQ passing. It's just not in his DNA to share the ball like that. And it's not a knock, it's just how it is. Some guys have it and some guys just don't have it.

That's why, for as devastating Kyrie can be with his dribbling, you would think, he'd be able to dump off easy passes to his big men for easy dunks or layups or to a cutting LBJ for dunks or LBJ when Kyrie collapses a defense by getting into the lane and should be avg 8-10 assists easily. However, he's lucky to get 3-5 at most per game on a good day. He's shoot first, pass 2nd mentality.

[Att]

I'm all in favor of a Boston-Cavs trade:

Kyrie + Love
for
I.Thomas + Horford + The Nets pick

Boston gets better and younger (and more in line with their other prospects).
The Cavs still has a chance to take it this year with Lebron and they also have a pick for the future if he bolts.

[OsuCavsfan103]

So I heard that Jackson could not be included until Aug 2nd correct?

I wonder IF that could be an indication as to why this deal is not done if it's starting to creep more and more and more towards there being a deal from CLE and PHX.

Honestly I think PHX would be silly to not do the deal if Cavs insist on Jackson. Yes he has some good potential, but Kyrie is already a proven all-star who is only 25 and may not even have peaked yet. Kyrie isn't a leader to me, but his game offensively is extraordinary.

It's a lot riskier to count on a rookie being great than it is to take the sure thing, Kyrie is proven. I was hesitant at first to let Wiggins go for Love bc of the what if factor, but the more I thought about it, Love was a beast, an all-star, Wiggins was unproven.I do not regret that trade one single bit.

Why would Phoenix make that trade when Kyrie doesn't want to be there?

Giving up Bledsoe is fine but Jackson is a big part of their future.

If Kyrie leaves in 2 years then there is no way thats worth it.

And there is no forseeable way for them to become contenders in the meantime and convince Kyrie to stay.

Who says Kyrie doesn't want to be there? Yes they weren't on his list, but things can change. Phoenix is an awesome place, and he is a 1hr flt from LA and Vegas. Plus Booker is a great young player to pair with without making Kyrie 2nd fiddle.

If Kyrie cared about winning a lot he wouldn't have demanded a trade. Nor would he want to go to the Knicks who are awful and have no great outlook on their future.

Not to mention Kyrie and his cryptic post today seeming pretty excited about a good chance at going to the Suns.

The Suns were about to throw tons of money at Blake Griffin so obviously they would enjoy having a marquee player to put in the seats

[Jedi32]

Kyrie and his circle are utterly delusional. It's embarrassing.

Kyrie is an incredibly flawed player and personality. I'm certain LeBron is tired of babysitting him and trying to get him to play the right way. How bad is it? This bad (from last year when LeBron sat out a game):

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/03/kyrie_irving_shows_again_that_hes_not_ready.html



That's not LeBron saying that, either. Those are other Cavs teammates.

That was one year ago.

Anyone think Kyrie had a miracle make-over in one season?

The more Kyrie and his circle talk, the more respect I lose for him and them. And there wasn't a large surplus to start with.

I have followed the Cavs very closely the last several years. I've seen the issues with Kyrie over and over and over again.

He has improved, but is still FAR from being ready to lead a team. As the title of that linked article states.

Kyrie should not be worried about being "sonned" or any such idiocy. He should be worried about soaking up every possible lesson he can learn from one of the three greatest players who ever lived. He should thank God every day that he got to play with LeBron.

He'll find out soon enough. He had a taste of it before LeBron came back to Ohio, and he's probably headed back to that loser position again soon.

Some people just don't get it.

Kyrie is 25 years old. When Magic was 27 years old and about to take over the team from Kareem (who was around 39 or so), here's how he felt:

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-18/sports/sp-358_1_magic-johnson



Compare that with the ingrate's words.

Magic at 27 years old -----> I have to show I'm ready to lead the team and I need to do whatever it takes to help us win

Kyrie at 25 years old ------> Wahhhhhh! LeBron is "sonning" me and I'm mad! I want away from LeBron!

The amount of disgust I feel towards Kyrie about all of this is beyond my ability to convey using words.

There is nothing to respect in what Kyrie is doing now. The only appropriate feelings here are scorn, derision and disbelief.

Carmelo 2. Coming soon to a yet-unidentified team.

Someone posted stats saying Kyrie basically averaged 25/6, if that's true don't you think it's unfair to single out one game where the guy had one assist and act like it's a big deal?

He's top 5 in mpg and usage but like 17th in apg (among PG's), he's not a playmaker for others.

He's basically 2 or 3 assists behind lebron in apg and folks say he's not a playmaker for others? Now I'm not saying he's on the same level as lebron but you don't think if given the right situation he could add 2 or 3 more assists to his stat sheet a night?

[BasketballFan7]

Someone posted stats saying Kyrie basically averaged 25/6, if that's true don't you think it's unfair to single out one game where the guy had one assist and act like it's a big deal?

He's top 5 in mpg and usage but like 17th in apg (among PG's), he's not a playmaker for others.

He's basically 2 or 3 assists behind lebron in apg and folks say he's not a playmaker for others? Now I'm not saying he's on the same level as lebron but you don't think if given the right situation he could add 2 or 3 more assists to his stat sheet a night?

It is not about the assist numbers. Watch him play. He goes long, long stretches where he shows no inclination to pass the ball. He has a historic usage rate when LeBron sits and his assists don't increase, rather his shot attempts do. He is a monster at scoring on the pick and roll but has no idea how to find the frequently open Kevin Love on the pick and pop, or LeBron on the roll. He's consistently a moment slow when making decisions on the court, has no idea how to control game pace, and his teammates become disengaged when he has the ball.

[Revived]

Bledsoe, Jackson, Miami's 1st for Kyrie and I will drive Kyrie to the airport myself.

I really don't get Suns reluctance, Kyrie is a proven all-star, top 5 pg in the league most likely. Jackson is a 4th overall pick.

Kyrie wants to be the lead dog, there is no accounts that Kyrie would necessarily want to leave PHX in 2 years at all. Suns would be silly not to do this in my opinion.

Phoenix wasn't on Kyrie's list of teams.

Besides, Jackson is the Suns best perimeter defender and considering neither Booker/Kyrie play defense, their gonna need to keep a talent like Jackson.

This is all a moot point, Suns already told Jackson and his agent that he won't be traded in any Kyrie trade. If Cavs are insistent on Jackson from the Suns then I'm guessing the Suns will withdraw their offer and Cavs choose one of the other offers.

[-G-]

I still say Kyrie for Kemba + whatever makes the most sense.

[OsuCavsfan103]

Bledsoe, Jackson, Miami's 1st for Kyrie and I will drive Kyrie to the airport myself.

I really don't get Suns reluctance, Kyrie is a proven all-star, top 5 pg in the league most likely. Jackson is a 4th overall pick.

Kyrie wants to be the lead dog, there is no accounts that Kyrie would necessarily want to leave PHX in 2 years at all. Suns would be silly not to do this in my opinion.

Phoenix wasn't on Kyrie's list of teams.

Besides, Jackson is the Suns best perimeter defender and considering neither Booker/Kyrie play defense, their gonna need to keep a talent like Jackson.

This is all a moot point, Suns already told Jackson and his agent that he won't be traded in any Kyrie trade. If Cavs are insistent on Jackson from the Suns then I'm guessing the Suns will withdraw their offer and Cavs choose one of the other offers.

Jackson has not played a single NBA game yet, you have no idea how good he is going to be defensively yet. D is usually the last thing to come around for a young guy like that. Look at Wiggins, he was supposed to be a lockdown defender, and honestly he is just now starting to show some defensive prowess finally. It took LeBron quite a few seasons to become a good defender.

Doesn't matter what Suns told Jackson's camp to be honest. He would not be the first nor last to be told one thing and then dealt anyhow. Cavs told Wiggins he wasn't going anywhere, and then he was. Jackson can't go anywhere for a few days still regardless, so Suns would be silly to say nothing to him, of course they are going to ease his concerns either way until a deal could be made.

[clyde21]

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[OsuCavsfan103]

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That's a good point. Plus, would not surprise me a bit if LeBron has been in his ear a little trying to persuade him to help facilitate a deal. LeBron and "Champ" are really close.

[LivingLegend]

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That's a good point. Plus, would not surprise me a bit if LeBron has been in his ear a little trying to persuade him to help facilitate a deal. LeBron and "Champ" are really close.

We will find out in the next week in AUG once Josh Jackson becomes eligible to be traded or whatever. I think the Cavs will be looking to move on with the 1st fair deal they receive and rid themselves of whatever is going on here. The more Kyrie lingers around, the more negativity happens.

Get a fair deal, make the trade and get to work in the offseason gelling together so there is as minimal growing pains as possible once the season ramps up.

[Cavaliers2]

I still say Kyrie for Kemba + whatever makes the most sense.

Having MKG on defense would be really really nice. Too bad his nonexistent jumper probably would make him too much of a liability with Lebron

[LivingLegend]

I still say Kyrie for Kemba + whatever makes the most sense.

Having MKG on defense would be really really nice. Too bad his nonexistent jumper probably would make him too much of a liability with Lebron

If its Charlotte, it will be Kemba + Batum