2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

NoBias · Post #961 » by **NoBias** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:08 pm

I think ROY should be Barnes.

Barnes started the season great, Mobley was ROY in the middle, Cade is ending the season off great.

But Barnes averages after the all-star break should propel him to the top. He’s been consistent throughout the year.

Jabroni Lames · Post #962 » by **Jabroni Lames** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:10 pm

Yeah, Barnes stepped up as the PF when Siakam was injured at the beginning of the season, played C in the middle of the season and is now sharing PG duties at the end of the season (with FVV hurt). Legit guards 1-5 on defense. Legit plays 1-5 on offense. Kid is going to be scary by year 3.

Love Mobley, but I don't think his true versatility compares with Barnes.

HotelVitale · Post #963 » by **HotelVitale** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:14 pm

NoBias wrote:I think ROY should be Barnes.

Barnes started the season great, Mobley was ROY in the middle, Cade is ending the season off great.

But Barnes averages after the all-star break should propel him to the top. He’s been consistent throughout the year.

Fine with him as ROY but hes been the same up and down as other rooks but with a stranger pattern. Just looking at his splits he was randomly terrible for all of January, not good in November, and then quite good in December and Feb/March.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barnesc01/splits/2022

Madhouse · Post #964 » by **Madhouse** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:18 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
NoBias wrote:I think ROY should be Barnes.

Barnes started the season great, Mobley was ROY in the middle, Cade is ending the season off great.

But Barnes averages after the all-star break should propel him to the top. He’s been consistent throughout the year.

Fine with him as ROY but hes been the same up and down as other rooks but with a stranger pattern. Just looking at his splits he was randomly terrible for all of January, not good in November, and then quite good in December and Feb/March.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barnesc01/splits/2022

He was injured in November (hand) and January (knee). Obviously it doesn't matter why when deciding the rookie of the year but it wasn't randomly.

duppyy · Post #965 » by **duppyy** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 8:22 pm

Lets have 3 co-Roys and make everyone happy.

LoveMyRaps · Post #966 » by **LoveMyRaps** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:47 pm

Hoping for a 40 piece from Wagner tonight!!

LoveMyRaps · Post #967 » by **LoveMyRaps** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:50 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
NoBias wrote:I think ROY should be Barnes.

Barnes started the season great, Mobley was ROY in the middle, Cade is ending the season off great.

But Barnes averages after the all-star break should propel him to the top. He’s been consistent throughout the year.

Fine with him as ROY but hes been the same up and down as other rooks but with a stranger pattern. Just looking at his splits he was randomly terrible for all of January, not good in November, and then quite good in December and Feb/March.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barnesc01/splits/2022

If 14/8/4 on 45/40/74 splits is considered "not good" then that says a lot about Barnes. :lol:

But you're right, he did struggle those months. He had knee tendinitis issues in January.

HotelVitale · Post #968 » by **HotelVitale** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:59 pm

Madhouse wrote:
Moses ShamMoses wrote:ROY isn't a big deal as its a Year1 award favoring NBA readiness. Since players usually take several years to develop it holds little to no weight into which players end up having the best career. Just look at guys like Malcolm Brogdon and MCW winning in recent past..
They are the exception. Most players who win ROY or are even in the discussion end up very good NBA players, if not great.

Sure but the award still does favor players who are early bloomers and have big roles, and it's not a great predictor of 'best future player.' E.g. Tatum was way behind Ben Simmons in ROY voting, Tyreke Evans beat out Curry, Brogdon blew away Jamal Murray in the voting (Embiid too though he missed 60%+ of the season), Porzingis got WAY more votes than Jokic and Booker, Kawhi was pretty far down the charts, etc.

It's a good sign to win though. Most players who win ROY have shown that some of their strengths translated really well to the pro level, which is a huge part of the battle that most NBA players don't achieve; but from there it could go any direction, e.g. starting off really strong but not getting massively better in the next 5 years (e.g. Simmons or Blake Griffin), continuing to improve beautifully and quickly to become superstars (Luka, Ja, Dame), being pretty promising but kinda plateauing (MCW, Wiggins), etc.

HotelVitale · Post #969 » by **HotelVitale** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:08 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
NoBias wrote:I think ROY should be Barnes. Barnes started the season great, Mobley was ROY in the middle, Cade is ending the season off great. But Barnes averages after the all-star break should propel him to the top. He’s been consistent throughout the year.

Fine with him as ROY but hes been the same up and down as other rooks but with a stranger pattern. Just looking at his splits he was randomly terrible for all of January, not good in November, and then quite good in December and Feb/March.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barnesc01/splits/2022

If 14/8/4 on 45/40/74 splits is considered "not good" then that says a lot about Barnes. But you're right, he did struggle those months. He had knee tendinitis issues in January.

True that Barnes set a high standard for himself but 14/8/4 while playing 36 minutes per game and shooting 51% TS isn't good. Nice production for a rookie but it'd be a bad month for any NBA starter, kinda meh volume (considering the massive minutes) and weak efficiency. If he was putting up those kind of numbers for the whole year folks would be a lot lot less excited about him.

The Moose · Post #970 » by **The Moose** » Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:20 am

https://www.si.com/nba/2022/03/28/detroit-pistons-rookie-cade-cunningham-daily-cover

Wel written piece SI wrote on Cade

thelead · Post #971 » by **thelead** » Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:47 am

Jalen Green has been very impressive as of late.

thelead · Post #972 » by **thelead** » Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:49 am

LoveMyRaps wrote:Hoping for a 40 piece from Wagner tonight!!

We can't jeopardize the tank at this point. He was +12 in 28 minute of a 6 point loss.

JackTalkThai · Post #973 » by **JackTalkThai** » Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:25 am

djsunyc wrote:
bstein14 wrote:
Klaw22 wrote:Cade winning the roy would be a disgrace. I mean, he doesn't have to share the ball... He's the man. Barnes playing with 2 all stars together, on a playoffs contending team, and still put up those numbers all season long. Cade couldn't do anything in the beginning.

Cade was top 10 this season in double teams faced. Its part of the reason for the higher TOs and the lower FG% for sure. Having players like Siakam, FVV< and GTJr around him almost certainly would have made things easier on him this season and lowered his TOs as well as increased his FG%..... he rarely has anyone who sets him up for easy baskets he is the guy being thrown into the fire and its going to pay off in the long run for his player development but in the short term its why he hasn't been as efficient and why he's strugged with TOs.

he's the pg - his role should be elevating the team.

His role IS elevating the team. Look no further than the Pistons W/L with and without Cade in the lineup and the Pistons production with and without him on the floor. It’s not even a debate or question.

K_chile22 · Post #974 » by **K_chile22** » Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:28 am

30-4-4 for Jalen Green and 20-6-6 for Josh Christopher. Luckily was just short of enough to push them over the Spurs

JackTalkThai · Post #975 » by **JackTalkThai** » Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:29 am

Absolute duds tonight by Mobley, Barnes and Wagner. Does anyone know if Mobley is hurt? He’s been playing fairly bad for a good two weeks now.

Great 30 point scoring game by Green tonight.

Shock Defeat · Post #976 » by **Shock Defeat** » Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:36 am

Ignore the first half of the season. We are watching the real Jalen Green. He’s on track to be a superstar and average 25 ppg

thelead · Post #977 » by **thelead** » Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:42 am

JackTalkThai wrote:Absolute duds tonight by Mobley, Barnes and Wagner. Does anyone know if Mobley is hurt? He’s been playing fairly bad for a good two weeks now.

Great 30 point scoring game by Green tonight.

How was Wagner a dud? His minutes and role are just reduced now that we're in tank mode.

Mobley rolled his ankle tonight but not sure about how healthy he has been recently.

links135 · Post #978 » by **links135** » Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:45 am

HotelVitale wrote:
NoBias wrote:I think ROY should be Barnes.

Barnes started the season great, Mobley was ROY in the middle, Cade is ending the season off great.

But Barnes averages after the all-star break should propel him to the top. He’s been consistent throughout the year.

Fine with him as ROY but hes been the same up and down as other rooks but with a stranger pattern. Just looking at his splits he was randomly terrible for all of January, not good in November, and then quite good in December and Feb/March.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barnesc01/splits/2022

It's not really strange. Beginning of the season, no Siakam, huge role to fill on offence. Siakam comes back like 1st game of November, little lull cause Siakam also sucked ass recovering from surgery. then Anunoby gets hurt. As well both Birch and Precious spend time hurt leaving no center. Leaves lots of opportunity for Barnes to get shots, but also having to play center.

OG gets healthy, now it's mostly FVV, Trent, OG Barnes and Siakam playing 40 minutes a game, so limited shots in January, and it's Barnes guarding centers usually, his stats fall off.

OG gets hurt again, then Trent and FVV get hurt (they've been shooting 33% each since All-star break while missing tonnes of games) so then Barnes has plenty of opportunities to score, and has a good February/March.

But it's worth pointing out, I mean, the Raptors have 5 guys scoring 15+ PPG while mostly being ISO scorers, like our assists are 3rd last in the league. So Barnes fits perfect as a rookie where even though him shooting better from 3 would be a plus, he's always playing within the flow of the team and being the 1-5 on both sides.

kingmalaki · Post #979 » by **kingmalaki** » Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:01 am

reanimator wrote:
kingmalaki wrote:
toooskies wrote: If you're taking the best chance at a 1A offensive option, Cade is your best bet and Green might still be the #2.

I don’t see how anyone that has been watching Green in the 2nd half of the season can make this statement. Especially in an era where efficiency is heavily focused on.

Well given the self creation and passing gap, I think its fairly easy to see why he put Cade 1A. And truthfully, a few others have arguments over Green for 1b (Giddey, Barnes, Wagner).

Passing gap, sure. Self creation...that's obviously a joke. Unless you are referring to creating shots for others. Typically when someone refers to a 1A offensive option they are talking about scoring, and that's Green all day. But Cade def has the nod in getting others involved.

reanimator · Post #980 » by **reanimator** » Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:09 am

kingmalaki wrote:
reanimator wrote:
kingmalaki wrote:
I don’t see how anyone that has been watching Green in the 2nd half of the season can make this statement. Especially in an era where efficiency is heavily focused on.

Well given the self creation and passing gap, I think its fairly easy to see why he put Cade 1A. And truthfully, a few others have arguments over Green for 1b (Giddey, Barnes, Wagner).

Passing gap, sure. Self creation...that's obviously a joke. Unless you are referring to creating shots for others. Typically when someone refers to a 1A offensive option they are talking about scoring, and that's Green all day. But Cade def has the nod in getting others involved.

Except Cade has a significantly higher percentage of unassisted scoring. In fact, the majority of Green's field goals are assisted at the moment. Maybe if Green was hyper efficient or if you're projecting for the future then I could see the argument.

Who is the Rookie of the Year?