NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

[Hussien Fatal]

Embiid is the mvp no doubt about it he’s played over 10 less games than Jokic and sga but that doesn’t seem to matter at all because he’s been significantly better than both players all season long.

Embiid leads the NBA in PER, PIE, EPM and currently ws/48 (which varies on a nightly basis between he and Jokic)

Jokic leads in BPM, VORP, DRIP, DARKO, LEBRON, and craftedPM which is a culmative formulated measure which factors in a variety of major impact starts.

Embiid leads in 4 major advanced impact metrics, Jokic leads in 6, and that switches to 3/7 depending on who snags the WS/48 lead.

Jokic leads the NBA in more impact metrics than anyone else, despite playing the worst stretch of basketball in his career in December.

Embiid has been, at best, equal to Jokic's impact this season.

Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

Ok what about the major counting stats???

Embiid averages a whopping 10ppg more than Jokic his ft% is a whooping 7% higher his 3pt% is also higher as well as blocks. Steals are about even as well as rebounds. oh and you forgot defensive rating which Embiid ranks #2 behind Gobert.

Embiid is favored to win MVP despite playing 10+ games less for a reason and its because he’s been much better than Jokic this season.

[docholliday99]

There's a lot of chatter about Embiid and this 70pt game....I get it, that's a lot of points and there's no doubt he's super talented but comparing it to Jordan? C'mon..putting the game in perspective, it was against a bottom 3 team with no defense, made up of back-ups and g-leaguers and a rookie phenom on a minutes restrictions; plus it's in a era where you can't body up and hand check the crap out of him. Not really sure how to rate him compared to those high scoring games in the past.

Won't take much else away from him, but I'd be much more impressed if he laid 40 on Boston, Heat or Bucks.

[falcolombardi]

Embiid is the mvp no doubt about it he’s played over 10 less games than Jokic and sga but that doesn’t seem to matter at all because he’s been significantly better than both players all season long.

Embiid leads the NBA in PER, PIE, EPM and currently ws/48 (which varies on a nightly basis between he and Jokic)

Jokic leads in BPM, VORP, DRIP, DARKO, LEBRON, and craftedPM which is a culmative formulated measure which factors in a variety of major impact starts.

Embiid leads in 4 major advanced impact metrics, Jokic leads in 6, and that switches to 3/7 depending on who snags the WS/48 lead.

Jokic leads the NBA in more impact metrics than anyone else, despite playing the worst stretch of basketball in his career in December.

Embiid has been, at best, equal to Jokic's impact this season.

Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

Ok what about the major counting stats???

Embiid averages a whopping 10ppg more than Jokic his ft% is a whooping 7% higher his 3pt% is also higher as well as blocks. Steals are about even as well as rebounds. oh and you forgot defensive rating which Embiid ranks #2 behind Gobert.

Embiid is favored to win MVP despite playing 10+ games less for a reason and its because he’s been much better than Jokic this season.

I dont know about much better, jokic playmaking is trascendent. But embiid is a easy best regular season player pick this year

[falcolombardi]

There's a lot of chatter about Embiid and this 70pt game....I get it, that's a lot of points and there's no doubt he's super talented but comparing it to Jordan? C'mon..putting the game in perspective, it was against a bottom 3 team with no defense, made up of back-ups and g-leaguers and a rookie phenom on a minutes restrictions; plus it's in a era where you can't body up and hand check the crap out of him. Not really sure how to rate him compared to those high scoring games in the past.

Won't take much else away from him, but I'd be much more impressed if he laid 40 on Boston, Heat or Bucks.

To embiid credit, most of everyone top scoring games are against weak teams or weak defenses

Jordan 69 vs a strong cleveland or lebron 61 vs charlotte (top 5 d that year) or for that mattrr booker 71 vs boston are not the norm for scoring explosions

[Jaqua92]

Embiid is the mvp no doubt about it he’s played over 10 less games than Jokic and sga but that doesn’t seem to matter at all because he’s been significantly better than both players all season long.

Embiid leads the NBA in PER, PIE, EPM and currently ws/48 (which varies on a nightly basis between he and Jokic)

Jokic leads in BPM, VORP, DRIP, DARKO, LEBRON, and craftedPM which is a culmative formulated measure which factors in a variety of major impact starts.

Embiid leads in 4 major advanced impact metrics, Jokic leads in 6, and that switches to 3/7 depending on who snags the WS/48 lead.

Jokic leads the NBA in more impact metrics than anyone else, despite playing the worst stretch of basketball in his career in December.

Embiid has been, at best, equal to Jokic's impact this season.

Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

Ok what about the major counting stats???

Embiid averages a whopping 10ppg more than Jokic his ft% is a whooping 7% higher his 3pt% is also higher as well as blocks. Steals are about even as well as rebounds. oh and you forgot defensive rating which Embiid ranks #2 behind Gobert.

Embiid is favored to win MVP despite playing 10+ games less for a reason and its because he’s been much better than Jokic this season.

Impact metrics > counting stats. Plus, BPM is literally a box score impact metric. Embiid is slightly favored. But there is not one single metric out there outside of PER that validates the claim he's been much better.

Do your thing man, just make sure you don't disappear like last year.

[Jaqua92]

My god, some of you can't even give someone props on a historic night. Must be so miserable to constantly bring in this negativity...

Maybe some of us are just getting a bit too much fatigue from certain posters ramming Embiid down our throats to want to come here and celebrate his amazing game. By the way since you said what you said in that quote I went back to check what your comments were like when Giannis scored 64 (only 6 points less) on 13 fewer shots while shooting 71% from the field just 6 or so weeks ago.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2338714&start=340

Page 18 of 93.

Over 30 fts for Giannis. But Embiid is a FT merchant lol.
And how about the Stat padding accusations? Embiid could have easily gotten 60. He has sat 1/3 of games this season because he has been so dominant.
Giannis is a battering ram.. Half of his drives are charges.

3 negative Giannis posts (you called him a FT merchant, stat padder and half his drives are charges) in one page, in different posts, straight after he scored 64. That doesn't look like just celebrating a historic night - which it was, franchise highest game score.

This. This thread is monopolized by two incredibly biased posters who dominate this entire conversation.

[playa-hater]

I always preface my ensuing comments in this thread with I am a Boston fan who has no horse in this race. But just looking at these posts and the many stat references, I need to say there isn't a stat for saying how many more quality shots and looks Denver's players get because of Jokic vs Embiid.

If you are an NBA player it has to be so much easier to play and excel with Jokic > Embiid. I mean If Embiid is doing his thing, your just watching. But Jokic Never "does his thing".. He just makes the right play regardless and his teammates are always ready.

Embiid may be the best "scoring force" in Today's game, but for doing what it takes to win, Jokic is my easy choice for best player and MVP.

[Jaqua92]

MVP with a 31/13/10 on 80%ts.

Business as usual

[AleksandarN]

MVP with a 31/13/10 on 80%ts.

Business as usual

This is what I love about jokic. Katie asked about his first triple double against the Pacers(only one team left he hasn’t scored a triple double) and all you hear is “we” in the interview not “I” truly unselfish and humble superstar. Embiid is favourite for MVP but this guy(Jokic) gets it. A winner. Denver is going back to back

Read on Twitter

[AleksandarN]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[eyeatoma]

My god, some of you can't even give someone props on a historic night. Must be so miserable to constantly bring in this negativity...

Maybe some of us are just getting a bit too much fatigue from certain posters ramming Embiid down our throats to want to come here and celebrate his amazing game. By the way since you said what you said in that quote I went back to check what your comments were like when Giannis scored 64 (only 6 points less) on 13 fewer shots while shooting 71% from the field just 6 or so weeks ago.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2338714&start=340

Page 18 of 93.

Over 30 fts for Giannis. But Embiid is a FT merchant lol.
And how about the Stat padding accusations? Embiid could have easily gotten 60. He has sat 1/3 of games this season because he has been so dominant.
Giannis is a battering ram.. Half of his drives are charges.

3 negative Giannis posts (you called him a FT merchant, stat padder and half his drives are charges) in one page, in different posts, straight after he scored 64. That doesn't look like just celebrating a historic night - which it was, franchise highest game score.

If you're not able to understand why I brought this up, you've not been paying attention to the **** Embiid gets for his FTs.

Giannis just had 30 free throws, in his 64 points. That is nearly half of his points. This board goes **** if Embiid has 10 free throws in a game, yet you see a game like this and not a peep about free throws. 64 points is incredible, but it isn't 70 points.

Also no one is ramming Embiid down your throats. If anything for the last 3 years Jokic has been rammed down our throats constantly. And the only thing about Embiid rammed down are throats is that he's a flopper and chokes. Hussein and I present a balance to this thread and the GB which is usually just a Joker circle jerk, or praising every candidate but Embiid. This is the first year I've seen more praise for Embiid, because he's having statistically the greatest season in NBA history. He essentially needs to be perfect to get positive discourse. Even though, you have the baseless accusations about ducking that have been flooding this thread as well as the GB ad nauseam.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your perspective here, is not on point.

[eyeatoma]

My god, some of you can't even give someone props on a historic night. Must be so miserable to constantly bring in this negativity...

Maybe some of us are just getting a bit too much fatigue from certain posters ramming Embiid down our throats to want to come here and celebrate his amazing game. By the way since you said what you said in that quote I went back to check what your comments were like when Giannis scored 64 (only 6 points less) on 13 fewer shots while shooting 71% from the field just 6 or so weeks ago.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2338714&start=340

Page 18 of 93.

Over 30 fts for Giannis. But Embiid is a FT merchant lol.
And how about the Stat padding accusations? Embiid could have easily gotten 60. He has sat 1/3 of games this season because he has been so dominant.
Giannis is a battering ram.. Half of his drives are charges.

3 negative Giannis posts (you called him a FT merchant, stat padder and half his drives are charges) in one page, in different posts, straight after he scored 64. That doesn't look like just celebrating a historic night - which it was, franchise highest game score.

This. This thread is monopolized by two incredibly biased posters who dominate this entire conversation.

Nope, this thread is monopolized by all things, anti Embiid. The only praise he gets is if he has an otherworldly game, and myself and a few others posts incredible stats on it. If we didn't exist, Embiid would not be discussed on this thread.

[DCasey91]

Just skimming through the posts, saying Embiid is significantly better is disingenuous and doesn’t help the discussion between the two. Jokic has been playing like an aimbot for awhile now with goat level playmaking

Significantly synonymous with large and it’s wrong we all know this.

This year whoever wins it is thoroughly deserved. I liked Harden over Giannis in 18’. Volume vs impact differences. It’s in some ways reminiscent of that

It might end being the last 20 games that gives us the clearer picture of it.

[Jaqua92]

Maybe some of us are just getting a bit too much fatigue from certain posters ramming Embiid down our throats to want to come here and celebrate his amazing game. By the way since you said what you said in that quote I went back to check what your comments were like when Giannis scored 64 (only 6 points less) on 13 fewer shots while shooting 71% from the field just 6 or so weeks ago.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2338714&start=340

Page 18 of 93.



3 negative Giannis posts (you called him a FT merchant, stat padder and half his drives are charges) in one page, in different posts, straight after he scored 64. That doesn't look like just celebrating a historic night - which it was, franchise highest game score.

This. This thread is monopolized by two incredibly biased posters who dominate this entire conversation.

Nope, this thread is monopolized by all things, anti Embiid. The only praise he gets is if he has an otherworldly game, and myself and a few others posts incredible stats on it. If we didn't exist, Embiid would not be discussed on this thread.

The anti Embiid narrative you are seeing here is isn't anti Embiid, it's anti Eyetoma and Hussain Fatale lol

[eyeatoma]

This. This thread is monopolized by two incredibly biased posters who dominate this entire conversation.

Nope, this thread is monopolized by all things, anti Embiid. The only praise he gets is if he has an otherworldly game, and myself and a few others posts incredible stats on it. If we didn't exist, Embiid would not be discussed on this thread.

The anti Embiid narrative you are seeing here is isn't anti Embiid, it's anti Eyetoma and Hussain Fatale lol

The anti Embiid narrative spans RealGm, Twitter, social media and Reddit. I'm flattered you think we have that much influence, but I think not.

Also if you're going to hate on us, at least spell our usernames correctly.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

[Hussien Fatal]

Embiid leads the NBA in PER, PIE, EPM and currently ws/48 (which varies on a nightly basis between he and Jokic)

Jokic leads in BPM, VORP, DRIP, DARKO, LEBRON, and craftedPM which is a culmative formulated measure which factors in a variety of major impact starts.

Embiid leads in 4 major advanced impact metrics, Jokic leads in 6, and that switches to 3/7 depending on who snags the WS/48 lead.

Jokic leads the NBA in more impact metrics than anyone else, despite playing the worst stretch of basketball in his career in December.

Embiid has been, at best, equal to Jokic's impact this season.

Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

Ok what about the major counting stats???

Embiid averages a whopping 10ppg more than Jokic his ft% is a whooping 7% higher his 3pt% is also higher as well as blocks. Steals are about even as well as rebounds. oh and you forgot defensive rating which Embiid ranks #2 behind Gobert.

Embiid is favored to win MVP despite playing 10+ games less for a reason and its because he’s been much better than Jokic this season.

Impact metrics > counting stats. Plus, BPM is literally a box score impact metric. Embiid is slightly favored. But there is not one single metric out there outside of PER that validates the claim he's been much better.

Do your thing man, just make sure you don't disappear like last year.

You just said “there is not one single metric outside of PER”

I literally just gave you two other metric’s in which Embiid has a massive advantage in other than PER, and they are pretty major metrics in PPG and also ft%. These are metrics that Embiid has a ridiculous lead in. Averaging 10ppg more than someone is considered “much better” and having a 7% advantage in ft% should also be considered “much better”.

Unless of course you don’t consider PPG or ft% a metric.

[Wolfgang630]

Jokic with another mvp performance and the clutch 3.

[Exp0sed]

Ok what about the major counting stats???

Embiid averages a whopping 10ppg more than Jokic his ft% is a whooping 7% higher his 3pt% is also higher as well as blocks. Steals are about even as well as rebounds. oh and you forgot defensive rating which Embiid ranks #2 behind Gobert.

Embiid is favored to win MVP despite playing 10+ games less for a reason and its because he’s been much better than Jokic this season.

Impact metrics > counting stats. Plus, BPM is literally a box score impact metric. Embiid is slightly favored. But there is not one single metric out there outside of PER that validates the claim he's been much better.

Do your thing man, just make sure you don't disappear like last year.

You just said “there is not one single metric outside of PER”

I literally just gave you two other metric’s in which Embiid has a massive advantage in other than PER, and they are pretty major metrics in PPG and also ft%. These are metrics that Embiid has a ridiculous lead in. Averaging 10ppg more than someone is considered “much better” and having a 7% advantage in ft% should also be considered “much better”.

Unless of course you don’t consider PPG or ft% a metric.

why are u omitting the obvious?

10 more ppg is great, but he's also taking 5+ more FGA per game and countless bogus ft's, he's just using a ton of possesions (which also inflates his assists, because every ball goes through him ,unlike Jokic)

he's doing that just because he is chasing stats and personal accolades, trying (again) to prove something to the world in the rs without realzing that this particular something - can only be proven in the postseason

he's also averging about 3.5 less APG, despite this insane usage
Jokic also has almost a full turnover less per game at only 2.9 this season

so 10 PPG, on alot more shots and with fewer point created by playmaking - they've been on the about the same level this season, all told but Jokic has done it without resting and ducking and has played alot more games which means - significantly higher overall \commulative production

Jokic is having the better offensive season of the two, make no mistake about it and don't let the huge gap in usage between the two fool u

p.s, these averages are also slightly skewed by 2 games in which Jokic got (wrongfully) ejected early

[Hussien Fatal]

Currently, Embiid is playing better than Jokic imo and is probably leading the MVP race. However, the number of games played/missed is a valid argument. And people need to stop just looking at the number of games played/missed but also which games were missed. Embiid has missed 10 games so far this season, 8 games on the road and only 2 games at home (he has played 11 road games only and 21 road games and that's a huge difference). The road games missed are MIN, NOP, BOS, MIA, ORL, HOU, CHI, ATL. 1 team out of the play-in (bottom 10 teams), and the other 7 all in play-in or a playoff spot.

I don’t think him missing road games matter much, here are his stats home vs away…

Home 21 games: 36ppg 12rpg 6apg

Away 11 games: 36ppg 11rpg 6apg

*Percentages are identical*

As you can see even if he played more road games he would still be producing at the same level he does at home.

[Potential]

The MVP is easily SGA with Jokic behind him. My personal sportsbook has these odds:

SGA +150
Jokic +300

Luka +750
Giannis +800
Tatum +1500