MVP discussion thread

[xMADEinDADEx]

paul geroge deffo deserves it

i don't care if indiana plays great defence, he is valuable to that team and they have the best record

Best record for now.



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[te887848]

LeBron by a mile (yet again) so far. I'm not sure you could replicate this dude's stats in a video game if you tried. It's alarming just how much better he is than everyone else in the league. No one's even close.

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. George
4. Paul

[litex]

LeBron by a mile (yet again) so far. I'm not sure you could replicate this dude's stats in a video game if you tried.

People often say Lebron makes it look like he's in a video game, and I agree. But I think the sense in which he resembles a video game character has evolved over the years.

When Lebron first came into the league, he was like one of those OP characters in a poorly balanced basketball game (like several iterations of NBA live over the yeas), being handled by someone who plays the game casually. Its not that the things he was attempting at that time (mostly drive and finish, drive and dish to punish the double team, or else pull up to take a streaky jumpshot) were that advanced, its just he was so much faster and more powerful and more explosive than the other players in the game were built to deal with. He was like Bo Jackson in Tecmo Bowl.

Now Lebron is more like the best player in a better balanced game (like the better versions of NBA 2K), but being played by someone who spends all their time in the basement pounding red bulls and mastering every facet of the game. The physical gulf between he and the other players is slightly narrower, but he's using all the advanced moves and running every play to perfection, orchestrating every facet of what happens on the floor.

[Hero]

I have it as

1. Paul George

2a.KD
2B. LBJ

Paul George is the best player on the best team and while his numbers don't match up with the other 2, they are close enough for me to have him at number 1 at this moment.

[KillMonger]

Paul George for me right now

[deneem4]

So going by this logic, I guess MJ shouldn't be called the G.O.A.T since he played with great players like Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, and Steve Kerr.

Scottie was versatile but he grew with the bulls, its lik if rose wins and jimmy was the 2nd option...u wouldnt discredit rose becausw of tht, he grew into that player he didnt sign over in his prime
Rodman was defense and rebounds
Kerr was a shooter,

Bosh and wade are both 2 way players offensive/defense ...and both were leaders on their respective teams before lebron...

Your point? You discredit Lebron because he has a great supporting cast. Yet Jordan gets a pass because his supporting cast (2 of which are Hall of Famers) "grew up with the bulls", was "defense and rebounds" (which you need to win championships) and a shooter (who holds the all-time record for highest 3-pt % in a season and for his career)? Okay then.

I discredit lebron because he joined his only competition, if mike wouldvr joined barkley and hakeem he would have never been considered the all time great no matter what he did before them...

Wade lebron and melo was supposed to be rivals all drafred in same class...tht robbed the nba of an era of good games....look at the east now...look how lopsided it is...the celtics big 3 wasnt in their prime like bron wade and bosh and non of them was considered the #2 and #3 player in the league...as a basketball player I can't respect lebron or wade thts y alot of players dont..

[PaulieWal]

Scottie was versatile but he grew with the bulls, its lik if rose wins and jimmy was the 2nd option...u wouldnt discredit rose becausw of tht, he grew into that player he didnt sign over in his prime
Rodman was defense and rebounds
Kerr was a shooter,

Bosh and wade are both 2 way players offensive/defense ...and both were leaders on their respective teams before lebron...

Your point? You discredit Lebron because he has a great supporting cast. Yet Jordan gets a pass because his supporting cast (2 of which are Hall of Famers) "grew up with the bulls", was "defense and rebounds" (which you need to win championships) and a shooter (who holds the all-time record for highest 3-pt % in a season and for his career)? Okay then.

I discredit lebron because he joined his only competition, if mike wouldvr joined barkley and hakeem he would have never been considered the all time great no matter what he did before them...

Wade lebron and melo was supposed to be rivals all drafred in same class...tht robbed the nba of an era of good games....look at the east now...look how lopsided it is...the celtics big 3 wasnt in their prime like bron wade and bosh and non of them was considered the #2 and #3 player in the league...as a basketball player I can't respect lebron or wade thts y alot of players dont..

If I understand you correctly the logic is that players can play on stacked/good teams only if their teams get the players through trades/draft but not free agency? Isn't a stacked team the means to an end, a title?

If you hold LeBron's free agency decision against him fine but then you also have to discredit all the other great players who played on stacked teams to win their rings.

In the end all championship teams have a combination of great players and to expect LeBron to stay in Cleveland with an iffy coach and front office so he could lose to Celtics Big 3 and now Pacers (assuming he stayed there) is quite laughable. Then we would all be roasting him for not being able to get it done. It's not fault he got drafted by a team that was unable to surround him with the right pieces to win while other great players were fortunate enough to be drafted or traded by the right organizations.

[xMADEinDADEx]

Scottie was versatile but he grew with the bulls, its lik if rose wins and jimmy was the 2nd option...u wouldnt discredit rose becausw of tht, he grew into that player he didnt sign over in his prime
Rodman was defense and rebounds
Kerr was a shooter,

Bosh and wade are both 2 way players offensive/defense ...and both were leaders on their respective teams before lebron...

Your point? You discredit Lebron because he has a great supporting cast. Yet Jordan gets a pass because his supporting cast (2 of which are Hall of Famers) "grew up with the bulls", was "defense and rebounds" (which you need to win championships) and a shooter (who holds the all-time record for highest 3-pt % in a season and for his career)? Okay then.

I discredit lebron because he joined his only competition, if mike wouldvr joined barkley and hakeem he would have never been considered the all time great no matter what he did before them...

Wade lebron and melo was supposed to be rivals all drafred in same class...tht robbed the nba of an era of good games....look at the east now...look how lopsided it is...the celtics big 3 wasnt in their prime like bron wade and bosh and non of them was considered the #2 and #3 player in the league...as a basketball player I can't respect lebron or wade thts y alot of players dont..

So.. Miami stopped Cleveland?
Since you said "he joined his only competition"

Lol.....

Idk what's worse.. You keep typin or you not realizing you're hating.


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[xMADEinDADEx]

.

[fallacy]

Well Durant proved his point tonight

Durant - 36 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 61/67/100 shooting, 34 minutes, 20 point win
George- 32 points, 5 rebounds, 0 assists, 53/67/91 shooting, 37 minutes, 20 point loss

This is the first pacers/george game i've seen all year but i thought George was more than just a shooter. Every time he touched the ball you knew he was going to shoot it, didn't even try to pass

EDIT: I also thought that George played defense. Whenever he was guarding Durant, Durant made him look like a high schooler

[MisterWestside]

Funny how posters who salivate over wins haven't even mentioned Tony Parker for MVP yet. He's the star on the 2nd best team in the league, record wise.

[B-easy]

I too have seen Paul george get blown by a lot, but great offense will always beat great defense.

[Rasho_libre]

Kd with the lead right now.

[Next Coming]

Kobe has skyrocketed to #1.

[JoeSchmo24]

Well Durant proved his point tonight

Durant - 36 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 61/67/100 shooting, 34 minutes, 20 point win
George- 32 points, 5 rebounds, 0 assists, 53/67/91 shooting, 37 minutes, 20 point loss

This is the first pacers/george game i've seen all year but i thought George was more than just a shooter. Every time he touched the ball you knew he was going to shoot it, didn't even try to pass

EDIT: I also thought that George played defense. Whenever he was guarding Durant, Durant made him look like a high schooler

You are ignorant do you know how difficult a road b2b is especially when you dont get the full 24 hours off and the other team had the entire day off. Not too mention the 2 teams they had to play are the Spurs and Thunder. A random ass game in December does not prove anything for Durant. Pacers have lost 3 games all year and they have all been road back 2 backs. I am sure you knew none of that though because this is the first time you have watched a 18-3 team all year.

[theokie]

Well Durant proved his point tonight

Durant - 36 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 61/67/100 shooting, 34 minutes, 20 point win
George- 32 points, 5 rebounds, 0 assists, 53/67/91 shooting, 37 minutes, 20 point loss

This is the first pacers/george game i've seen all year but i thought George was more than just a shooter. Every time he touched the ball you knew he was going to shoot it, didn't even try to pass

EDIT: I also thought that George played defense. Whenever he was guarding Durant, Durant made him look like a high schooler

You are ignorant do you know how difficult a road b2b is especially when you dont get the full 24 hours off and the other team had the entire day off. Not too mention the 2 teams they had to play are the Spurs and Thunder. A random ass game in December does not prove anything for Durant. Pacers have lost 3 games all year and they have all been road back 2 backs. I am sure you knew none of that though because this is the first time you have watched a 18-3 team all year.

Indiana/George supporters can beg for an asterisk, but every team goes through the same thing. It happens.

OKC lost to GS and Portland on the second night of road back2backs, I don't remember everyone coming to the Thunder's aid to defend them. In fact I think if you go back a couple pages, Durant is out of the MVP race after the loss to Portland. After OKC lost to GS, threads were made asking when Durant was gonna demand a trade....

My whole point is that its silly to judge the MVP race after 1 game every night. People jump to huge conclusions in this thread. Actually look at the entire season thus far to determine who's the MVP, not just what happened within the last 5 hours.

Besides, its not like Goerge had a bad game... 32 points on 17 shots isnt anything to scoff at really. Did he have the impact on the game like Durant did? No, but thats normally the case anyway.

[Chalky White]

A few observations from tonights game:

1. The gap in ability between Durant and George is large.

KD came out to make a point tonight, and by the end of the first quarter it was made. He went at Indiana off the bounce, in the post, off the ball, transition, etc. It didn't matter, he was dropping pebbles in a pond and there was nothing George, Hibbert, or anyone else could do about it.

2. This statement is going to make people uncomfortable, but I don't care. Kevin Durant has become the best player in the NBA.

I don't know what the numbers say at this point, but it doesn't matter, the sample is too small for them to really be relevant anyways. But the things this dude can do on the court, at his size, are just mind boggling. I don't know that there's been an offensive player with his technical skill outside of Kobe, Jordan, Bird, Hakeem and Dirk. But the former three guys carried those skills in sub 6'10 frames, while the latter two didn't quite run the floor like KD nor possess his ability as a ball handler. In Durant we have someone with the height and length of a center; the athleticism, fluidity, and skill set of a guard, and one of the better jump shots in the league. Combine this with his high BBIQ and the versatility in his attack and I'm not really sure he's defensible anymore. Mostly, you just have to pray he misses.

It should also be noted that Durant's all around improvement has been tremendous. Rebounding, creation, defense; he's doing it all. He looked better defensively than PG tonight, and opened up things for his teammates in a way George wasn't able.

3. Paul George's offense has developed really well. I've paid close attention to how he's getting his points this year, and I'm comfortable calling him one of the best off ball scorers in the league. He understands how to find his offense within the flow of the teams offense, so when he can't create for himself off the dribble, he'll run you through his bigs until he can break away back door or find a little space for his jumper behind a screen. He needs to get stronger as a ball handler though, because you can disrupt his rhythm if you crowd him.

I don't know if that jumper is going to continue to fall at this rate, but even if it doesn't he should still be able to find ways to score going forward. Tonight was a struggle against OKC's starting wing rotation, and he didn't really fair well in the head to head matchup with Durant, but he has two games against Miami over the next week and half and Im confident he and Indiana will have a better showing.

[JoeSchmo24]

Well Durant proved his point tonight

Durant - 36 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 61/67/100 shooting, 34 minutes, 20 point win
George- 32 points, 5 rebounds, 0 assists, 53/67/91 shooting, 37 minutes, 20 point loss

This is the first pacers/george game i've seen all year but i thought George was more than just a shooter. Every time he touched the ball you knew he was going to shoot it, didn't even try to pass

EDIT: I also thought that George played defense. Whenever he was guarding Durant, Durant made him look like a high schooler

You are ignorant do you know how difficult a road b2b is especially when you dont get the full 24 hours off and the other team had the entire day off. Not too mention the 2 teams they had to play are the Spurs and Thunder. A random ass game in December does not prove anything for Durant. Pacers have lost 3 games all year and they have all been road back 2 backs. I am sure you knew none of that though because this is the first time you have watched a 18-3 team all year.

Indiana/George supporters can beg for an asterisk, but every team goes through the same thing. It happens.

OKC lost to GS and Portland on the second night of road back2backs, I don't remember everyone coming to the Thunder's aid to defend them. In fact I think if you go back a couple pages, Durant is out of the MVP race after the loss to Portland....

My whole point is that its silly to judge the MVP race after 1 game every night. People jump to huge conclusions in this thread. Actually look at the entire season thus far to determine who's the MVP, not just what happened within the last 5 hours.

Besides, its not like Goerge had a bad game... 32 points on 17 shots isnt anything to scoff at really. Did he have the impact on the game like Durant did? No, but thats normally the case anyway.

I understand I am not asking for an asterisk for this game it is what it is one game in an 82 game schedule. Im just saying its not necessarily fair to pick this as the one game for someone to watch and base their opinion on George and the Pacers.

[xStanton27]

A few observations from tonights game:

1. The gap in ability between Durant and George is large.

KD came out to make a point tonight, and by the end of the first quarter it was made. He went at Indiana off the bounce, in the post, off the ball, transition, etc. It didn't matter, he was dropping pebbles in a pond and there was nothing George, Hibbert, or anyone else could do about it.

2. This statement is going to make people uncomfortable, but I don't care. Kevin Durant has become the best player in the NBA.

I don't know what the numbers say at this point, but it doesn't matter, the sample is too small for them to really be relevant anyways. But the things this dude can do on the court, at his size, are just mind boggling. I don't know that there's been an offensive player with his technical skill outside of Kobe, Jordan, Bird, Hakeem and Dirk. But the former three guys carried those skills in sub 6'10 frames, while the latter two didn't quite run the floor like KD nor possess his ability as a ball handler. In Durant we have someone with the height and length of a center; the athleticism, fluidity, and skill set of a guard, and one of the better jump shots in the league. Combine this with his high BBIQ and the versatility in his attack and I'm not really sure he's defensible anymore. Mostly, you just have to pray he misses.

It should also be noted that Durant's all around improvement has been tremendous. Rebounding, creation, defense; he's doing it all. He looked better defensively than PG tonight, and opened up things for his teammates in a way George wasn't able.

3. Paul George's offense has developed really well. I've paid close attention to how he's getting his points this year, and I'm comfortable calling him one of the best off ball scorers in the league. He understands how to find his offense within the flow of the teams offense, so when he can't create for himself off the dribble, he'll run you through his bigs until he can break away back door or find a little space for his jumper behind a screen. He needs to get stronger as a ball handler though, because you can disrupt his rhythm if you crowd him.

I don't know if that jumper is going to continue to fall at this rate, but even if it doesn't he should still be able to find ways to score going forward. Tonight was a struggle against OKC's starting wing rotation, and he didn't really fair well in the head to head matchup with Durant, but he has two games against Miami over the next week and half and Im confident he and Indiana will have a better showing.

[MisterWestside]

2. This statement is going to make people uncomfortable, but I don't care. Kevin Durant has become the best player in the NBA.

Except you've only been posting this since Durant entered in league in 2007, so you're not saying anything controversial here.