2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 4: Who is the MVP?)

[RRR3]

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I'm not even sure he's MVP of the Cavs

[Special_Puppy]

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I'm not even sure he's MVP of the Cavs

I do find it really interesting how the fancier advanced stats really like him still despite his kind of good but not great box score numbers

[RRR3]

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I'm not even sure he's MVP of the Cavs

I do find it really interesting how the fancier advanced stats really like him still despite his kind of good but not great box score numbers

I guess he's playing great defense? Although he was generally a poor defender before this year maybe he's changed idk? Idk, he does take up a lot of defensive attention which can make things easier for teammates. I like Mitchell a lot, but he's been a bit disappointing this year individually, at least efficiency wise, he's simply missing too many shots, shots he was not missing his previous seasons on the Cavs.

[SpurNani]

SGA will win the MVP award. There's no doubt about that.

But man....he fact that Denver can still win 50 games this year, despite all of the injuries, turmoil and drama...Jokic is the "definition" of MVP. The rest of the world could crumble around him and he'll be the one skyscraper still standing.

Or that they've won 34 games against non winning teams.

[Packbuckman]

Jokic has more career game-winning blocks than Giannis, fwiw

And if you think Jokic could make that block on Ayton in that championship or on Ant I want what you’re smoking. There is levels to defense and blocks jokic is not close to Giannis as a defender now or ever. When they played this year Giannis was clearly the best player on the floor and this is with Doc Rivers as a coach Malone is so much better and he gets fired I would have traded even up in a heartbeat. I do think they are the two best players on the planet and both still improving too. SGA is still winning mvp this year though

There's also levels to offense, and what Jokic does for the entire team offensively (not just scoring himself, where he has many more weapons than Giannis) is LEVELS above what Giannis can reach...

I've asked this repeatedly on this forum and nobody can answer this simple question for me.

If Jokic is such a BAD defender, and MPJ/Murray are not even average defenders, how were the Nuggets able to have a top clutch defense last two years? #2 last year, #3 year prior to that.

Are we overlooking a potential GOAT level defender in Aaron Gordon?

For most of the season I agree with dame on the team Giannis splits running team Dame with 7 assists and Giannis with 6.4 but since Giannis has embraced being pg he’s averaging over 11 assists a game with 4 triple doubles in a row so entering this playoffs he is on that level offensively you just haven’t been watching. As a bucks fan I can’t wait for playoffs to start with a healthy Giannis playing his best ball of his career!

[RB34]

Big game for Joker 26/16/12.

OKC blow out the Jazz with SGA and everyone else sitting.

[lethalizer]

OKC blow out the Jazz with SGA and everyone else sitting.

OKC blow out the tanking Jazz with SGA and everyone else sitting.

But yeah, was a good game, no complaints as a fan.

[RRR3]

Since they let Giannis run the offense he's been putting up similar numbers to Jokic

[Cubbies2120]

And if you think Jokic could make that block on Ayton in that championship or on Ant I want what you’re smoking. There is levels to defense and blocks jokic is not close to Giannis as a defender now or ever. When they played this year Giannis was clearly the best player on the floor and this is with Doc Rivers as a coach Malone is so much better and he gets fired I would have traded even up in a heartbeat. I do think they are the two best players on the planet and both still improving too. SGA is still winning mvp this year though

There's also levels to offense, and what Jokic does for the entire team offensively (not just scoring himself, where he has many more weapons than Giannis) is LEVELS above what Giannis can reach...

I've asked this repeatedly on this forum and nobody can answer this simple question for me.

If Jokic is such a BAD defender, and MPJ/Murray are not even average defenders, how were the Nuggets able to have a top clutch defense last two years? #2 last year, #3 year prior to that.

Are we overlooking a potential GOAT level defender in Aaron Gordon?

For most of the season I agree with dame on the team Giannis splits running team Dame with 7 assists and Giannis with 6.4 but since Giannis has embraced being pg he’s averaging over 11 assists a game with 4 triple doubles in a row so entering this playoffs he is on that level offensively you just haven’t been watching. As a bucks fan I can’t wait for playoffs to start with a healthy Giannis playing his best ball of his career!

- Not 4 triple doubles in a row
- While impressive, extremely small sample size...that'd be like us arguing Jokic had more gamewinning blocks and that making him on Giannis level defensively

If he's able to do that for a FULL SEASON like Jokic has done, we can talk about him being on Jokic's level offensively...til then...the only thing that keeps Giannis in the convo is his superior defense. I think the hierarchy in the NBA going into the 'yoffs is quite clearly:

Jokic

Giannis / Luka
SGA
Everyone else

[Cubbies2120]

Since they let Giannis run the offense he's been putting up similar numbers to Jokic

During that small sample size (April 1st to now):

Jokic 36.2 / 13r / 11.2a
Giannis 31.8 / 12r / 11.8a

Be very curious to see if he could do it over a full season like Jokic has (becoming the first big to ever do it)...

Giannis has been playing like the 2nd best in the league since April 1st tho no denying.

[SA37]

What a season by Jokic. I've had him ahead in the MVP race all season and he has maintained his outrageous production over the entire season.

1. Jokic
2. SGA
3. Tatum
4. Giannis
5. Brunson

[Packbuckman]

There's also levels to offense, and what Jokic does for the entire team offensively (not just scoring himself, where he has many more weapons than Giannis) is LEVELS above what Giannis can reach...

I've asked this repeatedly on this forum and nobody can answer this simple question for me.

If Jokic is such a BAD defender, and MPJ/Murray are not even average defenders, how were the Nuggets able to have a top clutch defense last two years? #2 last year, #3 year prior to that.

Are we overlooking a potential GOAT level defender in Aaron Gordon?

For most of the season I agree with dame on the team Giannis splits running team Dame with 7 assists and Giannis with 6.4 but since Giannis has embraced being pg he’s averaging over 11 assists a game with 4 triple doubles in a row so entering this playoffs he is on that level offensively you just haven’t been watching. As a bucks fan I can’t wait for playoffs to start with a healthy Giannis playing his best ball of his career!

- Not 4 triple doubles in a row
- While impressive, extremely small sample size...that'd be like us arguing Jokic had more gamewinning blocks and that making him on Giannis level defensively

If he's able to do that for a FULL SEASON like Jokic has done, we can talk about him being on Jokic's level offensively...til then...the only thing that keeps Giannis in the convo is his superior defense. I think the hierarchy in the NBA going into the 'yoffs is quite clearly:

Jokic

Giannis / Luka
SGA
Everyone else

Ok 4 out of 5 games and the only reason he didn’t have 5 in a row he only played 25 minutes 28-11-5 routing pelicans. The assists like for any player is his teammates going to make those open shots. Giannis draws so much attention when he’s passing like he is and making the right plays he is the best player on the planet.

[Infinite Llamas]

For most of the season I agree with dame on the team Giannis splits running team Dame with 7 assists and Giannis with 6.4 but since Giannis has embraced being pg he’s averaging over 11 assists a game with 4 triple doubles in a row so entering this playoffs he is on that level offensively you just haven’t been watching. As a bucks fan I can’t wait for playoffs to start with a healthy Giannis playing his best ball of his career!

- Not 4 triple doubles in a row
- While impressive, extremely small sample size...that'd be like us arguing Jokic had more gamewinning blocks and that making him on Giannis level defensively

If he's able to do that for a FULL SEASON like Jokic has done, we can talk about him being on Jokic's level offensively...til then...the only thing that keeps Giannis in the convo is his superior defense. I think the hierarchy in the NBA going into the 'yoffs is quite clearly:

Jokic

Giannis / Luka
SGA
Everyone else

Ok 4 out of 5 games and the only reason he didn’t have 5 in a row he only played 25 minutes 28-11-5 routing pelicans. The assists like for any player is his teammates going to make those open shots. Giannis draws so much attention when he’s passing like he is and making the right plays he is the best player on the planet.

Ah always the most refreshing, nuanced and unbiased takes. You love to see it lol

[MoneyTalks41890]

SGA has solidified himself at 2, at worst.

But again we aren’t really taking MVP anymore because that’s been over for a bit.

[Packbuckman]

- Not 4 triple doubles in a row
- While impressive, extremely small sample size...that'd be like us arguing Jokic had more gamewinning blocks and that making him on Giannis level defensively

If he's able to do that for a FULL SEASON like Jokic has done, we can talk about him being on Jokic's level offensively...til then...the only thing that keeps Giannis in the convo is his superior defense. I think the hierarchy in the NBA going into the 'yoffs is quite clearly:

Jokic

Giannis / Luka
SGA
Everyone else

Ok 4 out of 5 games and the only reason he didn’t have 5 in a row he only played 25 minutes 28-11-5 routing pelicans. The assists like for any player is his teammates going to make those open shots. Giannis draws so much attention when he’s passing like he is and making the right plays he is the best player on the planet.

Ah always the most refreshing, nuanced and unbiased takes. You love to see it lol

I always value Defense more than most on this forum that’s why I have Wilt higher on my goat list. But ya a little biased for Giannis but I do think he does get overlooked a bit though. Jokic is great I am not denying that but he is not a tier above Giannis like some say he is. Giannis making his free throws is the key to him being unstoppable Wilt and Shaq couldn’t make them at a consistent rate Giannis has before I am just happy he is healthy with the playoffs starting.

[Cubbies2120]

SGA has solidified himself at 2, at worst.

But again we aren’t really taking MVP anymore because that’s been over for a bit.

At worst implies there's a chance he's the best player in the game, which, at this moment in time, there's not.

He's top 3, at worst, but he's not #1. It's delusional to think otherwise...

There's a reason you see a lot of OKC fans on X stating things like "MVP doesn't mean best player in the league" in various forms...

[Patches Perry]

SGA has solidified himself at 2, at worst.

But again we aren’t really taking MVP anymore because that’s been over for a bit.

At worst implies there's a chance he's the best player in the game, which, at this moment in time, there's not.

He's top 3, at worst, but he's not #1. It's delusional to think otherwise...

There's a reason you see a lot of OKC fans on X stating things like "MVP doesn't mean best player in the league" in various forms...

The perception that Jokic is the best player in the league was really accelerated by him winning a championship in 2023. He won MVP in 2021 and 2022, but if you go back in look at "best player" threads those years, people still held a few guys like Giannis, Curry, Luka, etc above him. It was not at all clear cut to the basketball world until he won a title in 2023.

Which is to say, if SGA wins MVP and OKC wins the title, he will be widely recognized as the best player in the league. Plenty of the stat geeks (<3 yall) have made the arguments for Shai over Jokic and vice versa and I don't think its decisive either way, but perception will be driven by team outcomes and playoff moments. That was the case for how Jokic earned his undisputed best player title, and if Jokic and the Nuggets go out first round while SGA and OKC win it all, there is just no way Jokic is going to continue to hold on to the best player in the league title.

Same is true of Luka. If SGA wins MVP but OKC fizzles out in the 2nd round while Luka carries the Lakers to a title, Luka will leapfrog everyone and be crowned best player in the league.

[Jamaaliver]

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[Castle Black]

[Jamaaliver]

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