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Everyone shows OKC, Portland, Sacramento, Memphis, etc.'s style of rebuilding. Basically suck as much as possible, collect top 5 picks, then turn it around

How about some love for what the Pacers have done post melee. From the 07 season to now they've won 35, 36, 36, and 32 games and never gotten a pick higher than 10. They got labelled as the team with the worst position in the NBA for this reason, they were never bad enough to get great picks

Instead they concentrated on CULTURE and getting the right type of players, even if it means half the team is vets who 'hurt tanking'. People have called for Obie's head for years but this is his 4th season. The result is far more continuity and chemistry than franchises like Philly and Detroit who gun through coaches yearly. Bird understands its better for a rebuilding team to keep one coach because of continuity

They've patiently had faith in their 30-35 W and trying to win to the end strategy, contiously supported playing hard when other teams gave up and tanked. And they waited for the right moves. And now look at their team

Darren Collision (good starting young PG, could get better)
Brandon Rush (defensive 3pt shooter)
Danny Granger (all-star SF)
Psycho T (always room for someone who plays hard)
Roy Hibbert (future all-star, playing like a franchise C this season)

I would easily take this Pacers team going forward over Sacramento, Minnesota, Memphis, LA Clippers, etc with this core. Only OKC is above. And IMO the reason the Thunder are winning is the same reason Indy is on the way up. They focus on defense and winning players. This year they're 6-6 but have a 4+ SRS and 8-4 expected W-L so the stats say they've been better than that

Yes if every team tried to build like this it wouldn't be flawless. Some teams would stay mediocore. But there's just as many if not more teams who stay at the bottom in the 'tank for high picks' way. So I think Bird deserves some credit for being unorthadox and patient despite a handful of mediocore teams

The still suck and won't win more than 35games.

Hey friend, your post was very nice and makes me think on how good we've been thus far, we rebuild ed with getting a solid bench (Posey and Ford are solid bench guys) and getting Collison was great, and I think that O'Brien is an average coach who's got team chemistry. We've been patience with Rush, he's always been a loose cannon with his marijuana addiction and his off court issues, Bird didn't cut him. He put up 20 points while keeping Wade to like, 3 points I believe? Insane!

Darren's ceiling is HUGE, he's young and he's calm. He's such a saint on the court, playing with chemistry (passing to teammates) and his jumper is pretty deadly, he's one of my favorite NBA players right now. Roy Hibbert is playing like he's got something to prove, he's very hard to defend as he's like 7'2 and 260+. He's going to continue rebounding with his friend Bill Walton, and will eventually reach that all star reserve spot in the near future. Hansbrough is a project, he'll get better as our season progresses. Thanks for the credit pal!

Considering they're still crap, I don't see any reason to give them love for their style of "rebuilding."

We'll see if we still suck. I fully expect you all to backpedal when we're in the playoffs starting 4 players younger than 25. No "tanking" required either and with a ton of capspace to boot.

I'll take that over a bunch of tanking teams that despite coveted top picks still manage to suck year after year. Losing develops bad habits. When players think it's ok to tank they crumble at the first sign of failure. Only a few really special players in the lottery are capable of raising a team up, and chances are, you won't get them.

2 hardest spots that are most imp. to fill in the nba? the 1 and the 5, and they got 2 great prospects at those spots

so they are off to a good start, but i believe they need a young PF with potential

We have Hansbrough, he's got potential.. but I see your point nonetheless.

They'll probably get the 7th or 8th seed with around 41 wins. But is that really a position you want to celebrate being in as a team?

Part of their plan is also throwing a max contract at one of the big free agents. They have a ton of capspace and I heard they could offer two max deals (or something close to that.)

Collison is a great prospect, but 4 assists for a PG is low.

Sure it is. It isn't a position to be celebrating if your making that position relying on low potential old players, like charlotte. But if we make it starting 2nd year Darren Collison, 3rd year Brandon Rush, 3rd year Roy Hibbert, with paul george, hansbrough and mcroberts getting major mi nutes than heck yes it's something to celebrate. We also have major capspace to fill the PF position with someone pretty good.

darth_federer wrote:Part of their plan is also throwing a max contract at one of the big free agents. They have a ton of capspace and I heard they could offer two max deals (or something close to that.)

Collison is a great prospect, but 4 assists for a PG is low.

It's low, but it's the system. No PG averages big assists here, see TJ ford among many other ones. The PG gives the ball up early and plays like a shooting guard. Collison has proven he can rack up the assists in a traditional system, and is amazing in the pick and roll.

Yeah but TJ's never been that great at passing anyway so...

daschysta wrote:We'll see if we still suck. I fully expect you all to backpedal when we're in the playoffs starting 4 players younger than 25. No "tanking" required either and with a ton of capspace to boot.

I'll take that over a bunch of tanking teams that despite coveted top picks still manage to suck year after year. Losing develops bad habits. When players think it's ok to tank they crumble at the first sign of failure. Only a few really special players in the lottery are capable of raising a team up, and chances are, you won't get them.

If you get to the playoffs, that's all due to Bucks having a crap season, and not the Pacers themselves.

TJ averaged around 8 assists per game with milwaukee and toronto if i'm not mistaken.

for the pacers, it's ball till you fall, bitch, bitch
it's ball till you fall bitch, punk bitch

On a serious note, yes they have some good prospects, but they got lucky with Granger and Hibbert, it is rare to get value in the teens in the draft, not every team can be so lucky.

You have better odds sucking like the Grizz and picking up Gay/Mayo/Conley. Whereas the Pacers got lucky with Granger, which alot of teams passsed on. Plus he had injury concerns coming out of the draft as well just like Roy, but I guess he's not as injury prone, once again luck of the draw.

Blackmun wrote:

daschysta wrote:We'll see if we still suck. I fully expect you all to backpedal when we're in the playoffs starting 4 players younger than 25. No "tanking" required either and with a ton of capspace to boot.

I'll take that over a bunch of tanking teams that despite coveted top picks still manage to suck year after year. Losing develops bad habits. When players think it's ok to tank they crumble at the first sign of failure. Only a few really special players in the lottery are capable of raising a team up, and chances are, you won't get them.

If you get to the playoffs, that's all due to Bucks having a crap season, and not the Pacers themselves.

same for rockets
should've tank last year