Why has Wade been so awful against the Celtics?

[bostonHEATparty]

The Celtics defense is elite, so is the Heats.

I feel the Heat get out of their element when playing the celtics. By element I dont mean fast break dunks, I mean drive, kick, hit the 3. Couple mid range shots.

It was early in the second quarter where wade fell off his game. When LeBron went out.. Wade must have had 3-4 or even 5 straight possessions where he f'd up. Bad dribbles, passes, or moves or shots. More like they are in his head. WAY to many times did the heat try and press passes to Damp or Joel. And don't say well thats all the Celtics would allow. It's always there, its just stupid to try. Z is the only one that can catch and thats an IF.

Basically you could say a couple things about this past game. Pierce sucked, Wade sucked, Baby missed a dunk blah blah. Heat missed too many open 3's with 40%+ 3pt shooters. And the flagrant on wade. LeBrons late miss FT. Once the heat stop playing scared against Boston they should be able to beat them. Wade is the key to the difference, but the 3pt shooting will come.

[GaNGsTaRr93]

The Celtics defense is elite, so is the Heats.

I feel the Heat get out of their element when playing the celtics. By element I dont mean fast break dunks, I mean drive, kick, hit the 3. Couple mid range shots.

It was early in the second quarter where wade fell off his game. When LeBron went out.. Wade must have had 3-4 or even 5 straight possessions where he f'd up. Bad dribbles, passes, or moves or shots. More like they are in his head. WAY to many times did the heat try and press passes to Damp or Joel. And don't say well thats all the Celtics would allow. It's always there, its just stupid to try. Z is the only one that can catch and thats an IF.

Basically you could say a couple things about this past game. Pierce sucked, Wade sucked, Baby missed a dunk blah blah. Heat missed too many open 3's with 40%+ 3pt shooters. And the flagrant on wade. LeBrons late miss FT. Once the heat stop playing scared against Boston they should be able to beat them. Wade is the key to the difference, but the 3pt shooting will come.

Im confused are u a heat fan or boston fan?

[IEcelticfan]

the New Big 3, errr.... the heat is just inferior to the celts in 3 regular season games. that's all.

[TheOUTLAW]

This whole team is disjointed - we have made Lebron the playmaker and are now forcing everyone else to adjust

This and LeBron is trying to do everything now, and I don't think it makes us better.

Wade is struggling because he's not getting the ball in the same spots as he's gotten against Boston before, which was at the top of the key to look down the defense and see where the pressure is coming from.

He's getting it from the side elbows and this seems to be a needed adjustment for him and he's still yet to make it, hence the 3 turnovers he had in the 2nd quarter all came from the left hand side of the floor.

You can get away with pure talent when you're playing the Knicks, Sixers, Bobcats and other subpar defensive teams, but when you're playing a team as good as Boston, you need more than just talent but discipline and patience.

This is the same thing that LeBron did with the Cavs. It's similar to Kobe as well in that if there is a void he will fill it. Most of the time it works out well for the team but it can get people out of rhythm. So if the team starts to fall behind or if people aren't hitting shots he starts to take more control of what's going on

I thought the issue yesterday more than Wades shooting was the turnovers.

[Soap345]

The Celtics defense is elite, so is the Heats.

I feel the Heat get out of their element when playing the celtics. By element I dont mean fast break dunks, I mean drive, kick, hit the 3. Couple mid range shots.

It was early in the second quarter where wade fell off his game. When LeBron went out.. Wade must have had 3-4 or even 5 straight possessions where he f'd up. Bad dribbles, passes, or moves or shots. More like they are in his head. WAY to many times did the heat try and press passes to Damp or Joel. And don't say well thats all the Celtics would allow. It's always there, its just stupid to try. Z is the only one that can catch and thats an IF.

Basically you could say a couple things about this past game. Pierce sucked, Wade sucked, Baby missed a dunk blah blah. Heat missed too many open 3's with 40%+ 3pt shooters. And the flagrant on wade. LeBrons late miss FT. Once the heat stop playing scared against Boston they should be able to beat them. Wade is the key to the difference, but the 3pt shooting will come.

Celtics dont allow that. Also like I said, The celtics can survive a bad game from 2 of their big 4. Miami could probably survive a bad bosh game, but if wade or Lebron have subpar games, its over.

[writerman]

I was wondering how long it would be until some people started laying the "choke" label on him...like they've done to David Robinson, among others.

I have no particular dislike for Wade, other than him getting many calls he shouldn't be getting. But I've also never put him into the top-tier superstar category so many insist on putting him in. He's looked very human against the Celts, and even against a lesser team like my Pacers he was just flat out bad in one game this year. As much as I dislike Jordan, you'd never see Jordan fall apart like that.

Maybe he's just not as good as his rep would make him. I never have bought the popular perception that Wade took the Heat to the tile in 06. There was this guy named Shaq--and while I'm not a Shaq fan by a long shot, I give him most of the credit for not only that Heat title but the titles in LA as well.

One thing is for sure IMO--people in Miami who cling to saying the Heat are Wade's team are in denial. Like it or not, like him or not, there's a new sheriff in Miami town, and his name is LeBron James. People who trot out the canard that Wade has a ring and LeBron none somehow fail to acknowledge the fact that Wade got his teamed with the dominant big of this era--a luxury LeBron has never had.

[Endorush]

IMO

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1053383

that, and lock-down Celtics defense and possibly being "rattled" by Celtic intensity.

[Endorush]

People who trot out the canard that Wade has a ring and LeBron none somehow fail to acknowledge the fact that Wade got his teamed with the dominant big of this era--a luxury LeBron has never had.

Wait didn't lebron play with SHAQ last year? i had to say it, i know what u sayin tho

SHAQ the most dominant player in NBA history nevermind a generation.

I can't stand wade or the heat, admittedly i was rooting the the heat in 06 because i was a huge suns fan that year and dallas knocked them out, and all my buddies were rooting for dallas giving me a hard time about it.

[ELCIDz]

Dick Bavetta wasn't reffing

[MSGBallerz]

That's what happens when a good offensive player runs up against a great defensive team.

[bostonHEATparty]

That's what happens when a good offensive player runs up against a great defensive team.

Oh is that why wade was the best player against boston in the entire playoffs last season?

Also to Gangstar93, I like to play both sides

To Soap, Its not like Glenn Davis and Ray Allen all of a sudden stopped Wade's dribbling skills or even a half ass double team. Its like someone endorush said earlier, its the indimidation factor that boston and their D brings. Heat have to match it or just beat it. They play scared. And once the 3pt shooters stop playing scared and hit their normal OPEN shots.. The Heat will probably end up the best.

[Tesla]

Because everyone knows how amazing Wade is as he destroyed Boston last year as his team got destroyed by them.... which only leads to the rationale that if Wade just had more help last year, his numbers against Boston would be the same or better, and his performance would be the same or better....and the only difference would be that Miami would have won instead of getting beat no contest by a clearly better team... which means last year Wade was the best player in the league because he did the best against Boston.


I love this rationale. Stars numbers with a crap team against a great team could be plugged in all other variables/circumstances to support your argument.

[Zasterror]

Playing off-ball against the Celtics for the first time is proving very difficult for Wade. In his latest performance, he couldn't get any shots to go in, even the shots around the hoop which is uncharacteristic for him. Celtics have the best D in the league and definitely shines when it collapses on the opposing teams players that doesn't have the ball in their hands (in this case Wade). LeBron could pick and choose his spots since he is the primary ballhandler (which is not a good idea against a team like the Celtics who likes to cause TOs by deflections and LeBron is a little more TO prone in that regard). Whenever Wade had the ball, the Celtics crowd him with 2-3 players while effectively guarding the paint but LeBron, since he is primary ballhandler, has the benefit of having Rondo sticking him.

Wade needs to just find better spots because he can't do the same predictable setups as usual (I blame Coach Spo for this). Celtics are not your average opponent; they are a great team first while having great individual talent plus a great coach. The Heat are not on their level right now

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Because everyone knows how amazing Wade is as he destroyed Boston last year as his team got destroyed by them.... which only leads to the rationale that if Wade just had more help last year, his numbers against Boston would be the same or better, and his performance would be the same or better....and the only difference would be that Miami would have won instead of getting beat no contest by a clearly better team... which means last year Wade was the best player in the league because he did the best against Boston.


I love this rationale. Stars numbers with a crap team against a great team could be plugged in all other variables/circumstances to support your argument.

This sounds like a scorned Kobe fan. Oh wait, it is.

Now to actually adress the topic, I wrote about this on the Heat board. Its not just a Celtics issue, although its more glaring when Miami faces a good defensive team, because good defensive teams try to restrict you to the midrange shot, and that's where Wade has struggled the past couple of seasons.

Wade's a big part of the problem, especially in the Boston series. He's been very inconsistent this season. To prove my point, I will be using a stat known as Game Score.

"Game Score; the formula is PTS + 0.4 * FG - 0.7 * FGA - 0.4*(FTA - FT) + 0.7 * ORB + 0.3 * DRB + STL + 0.7 * AST + 0.7 * BLK - 0.4 * PF - TOV. Game Score was created by John Hollinger to give a rough measure of a player's productivity for a single game."

For a player like Wade, 25-30 is about average.

So, thus far in the season, Wade has 10 games where his GS was below 10. In comparsion, he had 4 such games in 08-09, 8 such games in 09-10 and 5 such games in 05-06.

In his top 10 worst games (in which he played at least 30 min)
of the 2006,2007,2009,2010,2011 seasons, 7 of them are from the 2011 season. O_o

He's changed his style of play, and its plainly visible to those watching. Its not a LeBron issue either, because these were all issues he was dealing with last season as well.

He's trying to get too cute offensively when he's not Kobe, or Carmelo. That's never been who he is. Wade was the guy that was so explosive, you had to back off him, and so he could raise and take that nice and easy 15 foot jumper. It didn't look as sexy as Kobe's fadeaway, but it was nearly as effective. Now, he's trying to play like Kobe, but he's not Kobe. And he still has more than enough speed and skill that the defender will give him room for the easy jumper if he'd just take it.

Its just an ugly brand of basketball we're seeing out of Wade, and its been going on for a while now.

OK, now for the statistical side of my rant, leaving out the 07-08 season because he was playing through injury. All numbers from hoopdata.

In the 06-07 season, he took 45% of his shots from the 10-23 foot range (midrange), 43% in the 08-09 campaign, 37% in 09-10, and 29% this season.

Conversely, his shooting percentage from midrange has fallen nearly every season. 38% in 06-07, 42% in 08-09, 36% in 09-10 and 35% this season. Your efficiency shouldn't go down as you take less shots, but rather rise, and we're not seeing that here, which tells you something is clearly wrong.

His post game has helped his numbers within 10 feet stay respectable, although they were their highest during the 06-07 season.

Whoever said rich man's Corey Maggette is spot on, and that is a problem that Dwyane will have to address. Its not that we want him taking more midrange jumpers, but rather, better shots in general. Forcing the drive when it isn't there leads to more difficult, off balance shots, which the eye test can tell you he takes far more of than he used to.

The fact that he's incorporated the 3-point shot into his game has inflated his efficiency numbers somewhat, but I consider it artificial inflation, as there are added negatives to a 3-point miss you don't have with a 2-point miss, and there are better options to be shooting 3's on our roster.

I just wish someone on the team could lock Dwyane in the video room for like 48 hours straight and force him to watch breakdowns of his jumper and the way he attacks the defense in 06 and 07 compared to now. The difference is night and day, and Heat fans notice it because we've watched him all that time.

One of the things that I used to love about Wade compared to Kobe, when Kobe got the ball, he'd wait for the defender to be draped all over him, then try a tough jumper falling away with a hand in his face. Dwyane would quickly attack, and either rise for a much easier jumper or blow by his man. It wasn't as pretty (except when he got to the rim and dunked it) but it was way more efficient. I'm not seeing that as often anymore.

If you don't feel like reading all that (and I don't blame you), in summary, Wade is trying to play like Kobe, and he's not Kobe.

[wadesbandaid3]

he has been changing his game but Lebron has been part of it. He needs to be able to split possessions with Lebron to be more in the flow... but yeah, hes trying to be kobe and hes not. hes more explosive and he wont take advantage of it. Hes one of the most dynamic player off the dribble, (2nd to derrick rose) and hes trying to shoot fade-away jumpers....

[wadesbandaid3]

And tim_hardaway is right. he needs to be locked in a room with a shooting coach and watch tape from 06-07. I'm convinced hed be a different player afterwards.... use the glass more, better follow through on your jumper, and use your damn quickness!!!!

[Harry_Seaward]

The way people post about Wade, James, Bosh and the Heat you'd think they've been together for years and have failed multiple times in the playoffs.

Howabout we let this thing run it's course before bold conjectures are made about Wade and anybody on that team.

[E_Breeezy]

so am I the only one that finds these excuses by these wade homers halarious? Lol

[E_Breeezy]

Now the wade homers are blaming Lebron for how bad wade plays against the celtics this year..
Yea dont blame it on the fact that his mid range jumper has been lookin Horrible & that he'z forcing up Shots... Just Blame Lebron!

it seems like nobody talks about Wade "playing a new role" when he dropped those back to back 40pnt games this season... Or any other time he has a monster game...
But anytime theye play an elite defense like Boston... "its Lebrons fault as to why Wade averages just 16 points & 6 turn overs a game vs boston".....

Yea... Thats Allll Lebrons fault lol


verages ex

[Soap345]

The way people post about Wade, James, Bosh and the Heat you'd think they've been together for years and have failed multiple times in the playoffs.

Howabout we let this thing run it's course before bold conjectures are made about Wade and anybody on that team.

Thats true, but then again, if you heard what the Heat players (Mostly Lebron) and fans were saying, you would think that they already won 2 ships (with 6 more to come).