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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsW26dCnGj8[/youtube]

Damn he looks so slow, and he can barely get up there anymore.

For real though he's still a freak athlete, and from these highlights he's as explosive as ever. He appears as though he has trimmed down a little bit, so maybe that was holding him back last season, or maybe it's because he was playing without his head band making him more aero dynamic

Doing things in a pickup game or dunk contest is different than an NBA game because of the intensity of every minute of the game and how it wears on the body.

LeBron with reduced athleticism still>>>>>95% of the league.

Only idiots were saying Lebron has lost athleticism. He was forced to change his game somewhat when he moved to Miami. It's called adapting.

Lebron defending well

as fast as he is still he used to be faster

as high as he gets still he used to get higher

i remember a time when he would get by defenders with ease. now he gets locked up by old shawn marion.

atleast my favorite player had an injury excuse and a 15th season excuse for not being able to get by kidd. lebron had no excuse for his rescent struggles

when kobe was 27 he was at his peak... lebrons peak was 3 years ago

griffmoney1694 wrote:as fast as he is still he used to be faster

as high as he gets still he used to get higher

Yep.

lebron has lost a good foot or more on his leaping ability

i remember when his head would be level with the rim at the peak of his jump

griffmoney1694 wrote:as fast as he is still he used to be faster

as high as he gets still he used to get higher

i remember a time when he would get by defenders with ease. now he gets locked up by old shawn marion.

atleast my favorite player had an injury excuse and a 15th season excuse for not being able to get by kidd. lebron had no excuse for his rescent struggles

when kobe was 27 he was at his peak... lebrons peak was 3 years ago

you make it sound as if Marion is a bad defender. it's actually a travesty that Shawn has no all-defensive team considerations. even though its well documented by Dallas fans that Marion is keeping EVERY superstar (and he's always assigned to them) below their average of a course of a full season.
remember the Iggy-wallpaper, the victim list? there was one with Marion and his last 3 years with the Mavs. he's a superb defender especially when the game is on the line

Lebron got a triple double while Wade was the one scoring at will. why forcing the shots when you have someone like Wade hitting everything?
Dwayne had the matchup advantage against Barea (can't play defense) and Terry (average - at best) while James had to face Kidd (all time great defensive PG with SG/SF size) and Marion (the real reason the Suns worked so well back then).
it was the correct move to draw the double team, or at least draw Marion away from Wade and pass the ball instead. on defense he was still great.

basketball is not just about scoring, Lebron defended well and distributed the ball at a ridiculous rate.
he had bad luck running into Kidd in the backcourt, Marion in mad range and Chandler under the basket who were all assigned to stop Lebron at all cost.
for your info: Marion has given ever superstar in this postseason (Roy, Kobe, Durant, Lebron and at some point Wade) some serious fits...

HeatRing2012 wrote:

griffmoney1694 wrote:as fast as he is still he used to be faster

as high as he gets still he used to get higher

i remember a time when he would get by defenders with ease. now he gets locked up by old shawn marion.

atleast my favorite player had an injury excuse and a 15th season excuse for not being able to get by kidd. lebron had no excuse for his rescent struggles

when kobe was 27 he was at his peak... lebrons peak was 3 years ago

you make it sound as if Marion is a bad defender. it's actually a travesty that Shawn has no all-defensive team considerations. even though its well documented by Dallas fans that Marion is keeping EVERY superstar (and he's always assigned to them) below their average of a course of a full season.
remember the Iggy-wallpaper, the victim list? there was one with Marion and his last 3 years with the Mavs. he's a superb defender especially when the game is on the line

Lebron got a triple double while Wade was the one scoring at will. why forcing the shots when you have someone like Wade hitting everything?
Dwayne had the matchup advantage against Barea (can't play defense) and Terry (average - at best) while James had to face Kidd (all time great defensive with SF size) and Marion (the real reason the Suns worked so well back then)

basketball is not just about scoring, Lebron defended well and distributed the ball at a ridiculous rate.
he had bad luck running into Kidd in the backcourt, Marion in mad range and Chandler under the basket. for your info: Marion has given everyone in this postseason (Roy, Kobe, Durant, Lebron and at some point Wade) some serious fits...

A) its not marion. its how old marion is. defense is even harder to play on the perimeter than offense as you get older.

and what about jason terry abusing lebron? lol


if lebron was prime i think the heat would have had a better chance vs dallas

not everyone peaks at the same age. some guys end up like shawn kemps

the defense Marion played against Roy, Kobe, Durant, Lebron and Wade was still elite.

doesn't matter how old he is, especially since Dallas rested him the entire season with his 20ish minutes so that he can go out with full strength in the post season

griffmoney1694 wrote:

lebron has lost a good foot or more on his leaping ability

i remember when his head would be level with the rim at the peak of his jump

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOOoZZB9BY[/youtube]

This is obviously an outlier and not his normal with-ball dunking vert, but you get the idea. Like you said griff, his head used to get around rim-level.

griffmoney1694 wrote:when kobe was 27 he was at his peak... lebrons peak was 3 years ago

I dont believe LeBron is at his peak yet. He is adapting his game because of 2 superstar teammates. That does not mean his game is declining at all - just changing.

Even in 7 years LeBron will probably have above average athleticism in the nba.

I still feel like he has lost a step, though. He's not as athletic as he was 2 or 3 years ago, IMO.
Obviously, he's still a top athlete in the league but the gap between him and the rest isn't as big as it used to be.

SpeedyWindRose wrote:

griffmoney1694 wrote:

lebron has lost a good foot or more on his leaping ability

i remember when his head would be level with the rim at the peak of his jump

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOOoZZB9BY[/youtube]

This is obviously an outlier and not his normal dunking vert, but you get the idea. Like you said griff, his head used to get around rim-level.

like i said.. lebrons lost more leaping ability than kobe has

he jumps a foot less on his vert

kobe might have lost 3-4 inches at most

obviously lebron still jumps higher. but thats only cause lebron went from jumping waaaaay higher to just a bit higher

2002 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymNkLNvSaxk

2011 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ekpQVIACZo


i dont even see a difference. kobes lost speed. not vert

Tommy Udo 6 wrote:

griffmoney1694 wrote:when kobe was 27 he was at his peak... lebrons peak was 3 years ago

I dont believe LeBron is at his peak yet. He is adapting his game because of 2 superstar teammates. That does not mean his game is declining at all - just changing.

I think we've already seen LeBron's physical peak. Only time will tell if these last few years were also his overall peak (prime).

That's ridiculous, Kobe Bryant's best was in the 07-08 season, and he was only 29 years old. His athleticism at that point of his career wasn't even what it was compared to even when he was 23-24 years old; or even that when he was 27.

Usually, an NBA players athleticism diminishes usually at the 24-25 years of age.

JF5 wrote:That's ridiculous, Kobe Bryant's best was in the 07-08 season, and he was only 29 years old. His athleticism at that point of his career wasn't even what it was compared to even when he was 23-24 years old; or even that when he was 27.

Usually, an NBA players athleticism diminishes usually at the 24-25 years of age.

2002 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymNkLNvSaxk

2011 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ekpQVIACZo

kobe hasnt lost any leaping ability

hes lost speed. thats it... he still gets up from time to time... doesnt do it often because he gets tired


2011 this summer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ6omin81EE <--- let full extension windmill in his 16th year... michael jordan never even did it.. always bent arm windmills..

griffmoney1694 wrote:like i said.. lebrons lost more leaping ability than kobe has

he jumps a foot less on his vert

kobe might have lost 3-4 inches at most

obviously lebron still jumps higher. but thats only cause lebron went from jumping waaaaay higher to just a bit higher

2002 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymNkLNvSaxk

2011 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ekpQVIACZo


i dont even see a difference. kobes lost speed. not vert

They both came into the league at a really young age, but Kobe's game is more... smooth. More refined. That's why he's aged so well. LeBron's style of play just takes (took?) such a toll on his body that it's no surprise he's already slipping in the athletic department.