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Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:30 pm
by KV20
Kobe Bryant is for sure one of the greatest players of all the time.
Most of the media and people say he is the best player, he masterizes fundamentals, he is a great shooter, but the stats don't show it.
In example, we say Dirk Nowitzki is one of the best shooters in the game right now and one of the most fundamental sound player, the stats show he is the best mid-range shooter by far and the most valuable scorer in the game.
Kobe isn't in the top 25 of the best mid-range shooters in the nba. He isn't in the top 10 of the most valuable scorer in the nba ( goldenstateofmind.com ) . He isn't top 10 of the most clutch player in nba, but everyone say he is mr. clutch.
We all know he is a great player ( 5 rings , i don't have to make the resume of his career), so why do the stats hate him and not all the other players ?
By this title i mean why the fact he is the best doesn't translate on his stats?
Re: Why do the stats hate Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:32 pm
by Shot Clock
This won't end well....
Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:38 pm
by MF Doom
Maybe he isn't as good as people say he is.
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:40 pm
by King Of The 4th
at this thread. Apparently stats have a will of their own and can choose what players they like and what players they hate.
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:46 pm
by The_NeX
Wanna bet this gets locked in less than 2h?
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:55 pm
by KV20
The_NeX wrote:Wanna bet this gets locked in less than 2h?
Why?
The question is : why his game doesn't translate on stats like it does with other great players?
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:58 pm
by Ruhiel
Kobe Bryant is the point guard and shooting guard of the team.
He has to set himself up and usually off the dribble.
At 7'0 Dirk works more on positioning and more efficient. And at 7'0 it would be hard for him to do Dirk assisted= 63.1
Kobe is the greatest volume shooter of all time. Basically boils down to volume and size/roles. But Kobe is actually reflected in his stats. Very efficient for his role and volume.
Reduce Kobe's volume/role and increase his assisted% and his #s should rise. IE Dirk needs Terry and Kidd to set up off ball. give Bryant a young elite drive and dish guard and let Kobe camp out for 3s and shoot his signature transition 3s.
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:00 pm
by Original Baller
troll fail
Kobe's stats are fine. He's a career 25-5-5 guy (with multiple 30-5-5 seasons).
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:01 pm
by KV20
Ruhiel wrote:Kobe Bryant is the point guard and shooting guard of the team.
He has to set himself up and usually off the dribble.
At 7'0 Dirk works more on positioning and more efficient. And at 7'0 it would be hard for him to do Dirk assisted= 63.1
Kobe is the greatest volume shooter of all time. Basically boils down to volume and roles. But Kobe is very efficient for his role and volume.
reduce Kobe's volume and increase his assisted% and his #s rise.
Thx, that is a good point, but how about Jordan Bird or todays players like Kevin Durant LeBron James Dwyane Wade Ray Allen Paul Pierce Carmelo Anthony ?
Ray Allen by stats is in the top 3 best shooter in the nba.
LeBron james by stats is the second most valuable scorer in nba and Durant is 4th.
Bird by stats was the most valuable scorer in nba and one of the best mid-range shooter .
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:04 pm
by ShabazzMuhammad
25, 5 and 5 on 45% career shooting... how are the stats hating on him again ?
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:06 pm
by Father Time
This will not end well.
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:08 pm
by c rasheed
Most valuable scorer
What other arbitrary statistic have they come up with over the years.
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:10 pm
by KV20
c rasheed wrote:Most valuable scorer
What other arbitrary statistic have they come up with over the years.
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2011/1 ... le-scorers
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:13 pm
by Father Time
Great article done on this a couple years ago:
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2009 ... stics-hateAlso, goldenstateofmind definitely seems to have a bit of a bias against Kobe. Since when do Warrior fans hate Kobe so much? I was reading their comments on the top 10 players in the league one time, and the bitterness of some of the posts was astounding. Pretty much the consensus of the commenters was that it was laughable for Kobe to be considered a top 10 current player.
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:15 pm
by KV20
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:15 pm
by Winsome Gerbil
KV20 wrote:Kobe Bryant is for sure one of the greatest players of all the time.
Most of the media and people say he is the best player, he masterizes fundamentals, he is a great shooter, but the stats don't show it.
In example, we say Dirk Nowitzki is one of the best shooters in the game right now and one of the most fundamental sound player, the stats show he is the best mid-range shooter by far and the most valuable scorer in the game.
Kobe isn't in the top 25 of the best mid-range shooters in the nba. He isn't in the top 10 of the most valuable scorer in the nba ( goldenstateofmind.com ) . He isn't top 10 of the most clutch player in nba, but everyone say he is mr. clutch.
We all know he is a great player ( 5 rings , i don't have to make the resume of his career), so why do the stats hate him and not all the other players ?
By this title i mean why the fact he is the best doesn't translate on his stats?
25% because the mythology of Kobe got so blinding at one point that people completely overlooked his flaws and annointed him the best at everything. And BTW this has gone on with the new Dirk cult this summer as well. People get sucked into the hype.
25% because Kobe has gotten older, and his game is tailing a bit, the efficiency sinking somewhat, the off nights increasing. Again people never recognie this amongst their heroes until it hits them over their head. See Duncan, Tim, an "All Star" again last season. Yeah right.
50% because despite what realgm will tell you, stats, and in PARTICULAR efficiency stats, do not tell you everything, or even most of the things, about the strength of a player. In fact they often miss nearly everything that makes a great player great. As much as Kobe scored a lot of points, its the complete game, the All Defense team memberships, the rebounding, assistmaking etc. etc. that separate a guy who's just a scorer from a guy who's a winner.
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:18 pm
by Father Time
Granted, it focuses more on PER than other stats like win shares, but you get the idea.
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:19 pm
by Ruhiel
KV20 wrote:Ruhiel wrote:Kobe Bryant is the point guard and shooting guard of the team.
He has to set himself up and usually off the dribble.
At 7'0 Dirk works more on positioning and more efficient. And at 7'0 it would be hard for him to do Dirk assisted= 63.1
Kobe is the greatest volume shooter of all time. Basically boils down to volume and roles. But Kobe is very efficient for his role and volume.
reduce Kobe's volume and increase his assisted% and his #s rise.
Thx, that is a good point, but how about Jordan Bird or todays players like Kevin Durant LeBron James Dwyane Wade Ray Allen Paul Pierce Carmelo Anthony ?
Kobe's usage rates ranks him as A) the ballhogginest player of all time B) . Give Kobe Rondo and Pierce and I think you see his role change.
Jordan with his big hands + speed and Bird with his 6'10 frame were more of a get fouled type of guy.
Kobe Bryant
2005-06 38.7 Usage%
2010-11 35.1 Usage%
Kobe's fault his usage is so high because he needs inside scorers to draw fouls and work those inside points.
Ray Allen
29.5% = career high
Different players, different roles. Like Ray Allen's peak stats reduce Kobe's usage/role and you'll see TS% go up.
How do you take the ball out of Kobe's hands?
Kobe's volume> everyone else. Jordan would try to get to the rim. Bird, Wade etc. That makes Kobe flawed he cant do that but he tries to make up with pull up jumpers, 3s and just being a HoF level efficient ball hog
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:20 pm
by parapooper
Kobe has nice stats. The problem is that the media and his rabid fanbase claim he is top10 all-time, better than anybody in the clutch and plays stellar, high-impact defense. The stats don't hate him. They merely disagree with these hyperbolic claims.
Re: Why do the stats hate on Kobe Bryant?
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:20 pm
by Volcano
Volume scorers tend to be overrated. Stats indicate that Kobe's good/great, but not the best at one particular thing, which is what he is.
He has volume, longevity and was well-rounded in his prime, which doesn't necessarily translate to having the best stats or being the best player.