WT: Magic Want BOTH Bynum and Gasol For Howard

[JellosJigglin]

The Magic still aren't asking for enough. They should get rebuilding assets, and I remain hopeful they will. On the other hand, Otis isn't that bright, so we'll see. At any rate, it's now obvious how laughable it was for Lakers fans to suggest they had the assets to acquire both Dwight and Paul.

Why? They might have. We'll never know now.

[doozyj]

Do it! its freakin dwight howard

Laker fans understand it is Dwight Howard but even Dwight Howard on a gutten roster will be extremely tough to match up with a stacked Mavs team. Lakers make moves to win championships not just to make the playoffs. We need to keep Gasol.

That stacked Mavs team is good but Howard would be incredibly hard for them to contain. The biggest culprit for three Laker losses (Gasol's slow rotations at PF) would be gone giving them a good shot.

I am at the point now and say **** it, send Pau and Bynum for Howard and Jameer, everything else is changing so much, lets just run with it.

[Entengtot]

yes do. give up the big men for howard. it's a no-brainer.

if you're orlando what do you do this for?

[JellosJigglin]

I am at the point now and say **** it, send Pau and Bynum for Howard and Jameer, everything else is changing so much, lets just run with it.

lol no. Still too early to make a panic move. Wait until the trade deadline. This is a throw-away year, so no reason to sell the farm yet.

[GodDamnRobin]

Lakers fans are being wholly unrealistic with some of these remarks. The next best offer is not "Lopez plus picks" (which does kinda suck, unless they wait until the trade deadline/offseason and the 2012 pick is good), because lots of teams want Dwight, and regardless of whatever list Dwight gives to the Magic, the Lakers don't have leverage, because they have no cap space. For instance, the Clippers could offer Gordon, Jordan and a pick. That would be a much better offer for a rebuilding team. The Celtics could offer cap relief, some picks and Rondo. Again, a better rebuilding offer.

The longer this goes on, the less leverage the Lakers will have, and the higher than chance Dwight becomes willing to sign an extension with another team (especially if that team shows it is awesome, like the Clippers will be with Paul and Butler). If the Magic really are willing to give up Dwight for Pau and Bynum, the Lakers would be morons to say no, because they make out like bandits, and because things will get worse for them as this goes on.

[doozyj]

I am at the point now and say **** it, send Pau and Bynum for Howard and Jameer, everything else is changing so much, lets just run with it.

lol no. Still too early to make a panic move. Wait until the trade deadline. This is a throw-away year, so no reason to sell the farm yet.

LOL. I know, just ranting, this week has been more than frustrating.

[therealbig3]

Lakers fans are being wholly unrealistic with some of these remarks. The next best offer is not "Lopez plus picks" (which does kinda suck, unless they wait until the trade deadline/offseason and the 2012 pick is good), because lots of teams want Dwight, and regardless of whatever list Dwight gives to the Magic, the Lakers don't have leverage, because they have no cap space. For instance, the Clippers could offer Gordon, Jordan and a pick. That would be a much better offer for a rebuilding team. The Celtics could offer cap relief, some picks and Rondo. Again, a better rebuilding offer.

The longer this goes on, the less leverage the Lakers will have, and the higher than chance Dwight becomes willing to sign an extension with another team (especially if that team shows it is awesome, like the Clippers will be with Paul and Butler). If the Magic really are willing to give up Dwight for Pau and Bynum, the Lakers would be morons to say no, because they make out like bandits, and because things will get worse for them as this goes on.

How is cap space, picks, and Rondo better than cap space, picks, and Lopez, or cap space, picks, and Bynum. Rondo isn't that good, and he's older than both of them...

[GodDamnRobin]

You're some kind of Nets fan? Just curious, with the user name and all.

Anyway, I don't think Dwight going to the Nets is necessarily unlikely, it depends how things play out... one thing is sure though, and that's Lopez isn't a very good asset. He had a really damaging season last year, and if Dwight gets traded before the season the Nets picks will have bad value.

Rondo is 25 years old and has a fairly reasonable contract. He's also an all-star unlike Bynum, and isn't injured all the time (unlike Bynum). You can build a team around him... maybe not as the best player, but he could be the Robin of a very good team. Bynum can't be, especially not with all the injuries.

[ibraheim718]

You're some kind of Nets fan? Just curious, with the user name and all.

Anyway, I don't think Dwight going to the Nets is necessarily unlikely, it depends how things play out... one thing is sure though, and that's Lopez isn't a very good asset. He had a really damaging season last year, and if Dwight gets traded before the season the Nets picks will have bad value.

Rondo is 25 years old and has a fairly reasonable contract. He's also an all-star unlike Bynum, and isn't injured all the time (unlike Bynum). You can build a team around him... maybe not as the best player, but he could be the Robin of a very good team. Bynum can't be, especially not with all the injuries.

On lopez... Mono takes at least a year to recover from. I don't see him being as bad as he was last year.

[therealbig3]

You're some kind of Nets fan? Just curious, with the user name and all.

Anyway, I don't think Dwight going to the Nets is necessarily unlikely, it depends how things play out... one thing is sure though, and that's Lopez isn't a very good asset. He had a really damaging season last year, and if Dwight gets traded before the season the Nets picks will have bad value.

Rondo is 25 years old and has a fairly reasonable contract. He's also an all-star unlike Bynum, and isn't injured all the time (unlike Bynum). You can build a team around him... maybe not as the best player, but he could be the Robin of a very good team. Bynum can't be, especially not with all the injuries.

Yeah, I'm a Nets fan, but my user name actually refers to the 2nd 3-peat Bulls, with Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman. Big fan of them.

I think Rondo is one of the most overrated players out there. His defense is overrated, and his offense just isn't that good. He made the All-Star team for two reasons:

1. He played for the Celtics with the big 3, and they had a lot of success, so he got attention.
2. He gets a lot of assists, so people think of him as this offensive wizard...he's also got a lot of highlight reel plays and he does play with a lot of hustle, so props for that, but he's not an All-Star caliber player imo.

Lopez got killed last season because of piss poor rebounding, and that's a legitimate knock. But like someone mentioned above, he was sick, and there were a bunch of other annoying problems with him that aren't valid excuses for averaging 6 rpg, but should be considered, and he did average over 8 rpg in his first two seasons. While not a great rebounder, I don't think he's as terrible as he showed last season. And he's a legit post scorer.

I don't think he's a poor asset at all, he's a better value than Bynum imo, simply because he can actually stay on the court.

Rondo has not shown he can be a Robin on a good team at all, he's still the 4th option on the Celtics, and should remain so.

[GodDamnRobin]

Well, I don't agree with you about Rondo. He's a legit all-star (twice now), and a borderline all-nba player, who was maybe the Celtics most valuable guy last year (or close). Regardless of whether you think he's on one end of the all-star spectrum or the other, it's clear he's better than Lopez, who just played like trash last season, and there's not alot of reason to think he'll be better next season. If those are the numbers Lopez posts on a terrible team, I'd hate to see him on a good one. Rondo on the other hand posts stats that are worse than what he's worth because he plays on a deep team.

Rondo isn't a franchise player, and for him to be the best player on a contender would require a bizarro team I can barely even imagine. However he's still a clear cut all-star, and he's young too, only 1 year older than the supposedly improving Lopez. I think you've let the playoffs and the Celtics late season slump get in the way of what the Celtics looked like for most of the season with Rondo as maybe their best player. They were 41-14, and ripping it up... then they traded Perkins, and it really hurt them, and basically crippled their ability to win a title.

[therealbig3]

Well, I don't agree with you about Rondo. He's a legit all-star (twice now), and a borderline all-nba player, who was maybe the Celtics most valuable guy last year (or close). Regardless of whether you think he's on one end of the all-star spectrum or the other, it's clear he's better than Lopez, who just played like trash last season, and there's not alot of reason to think he'll be better next season. If those are the numbers Lopez posts on a terrible team, I'd hate to see him on a good one. Rondo on the other hand posts stats that are worse than what he's worth because he plays on a deep team.

Rondo isn't a franchise player, and for him to be the best player on a contender would require a bizarro team I can barely even imagine. However he's still a clear cut all-star, and he's young too, only 1 year younger than the supposedly improving Lopez. I think you've let the playoffs and the Celtics late season slump get in the way of what the Celtics looked like for most of the season with Rondo as maybe their best player. They were 41-14, and ripping it up... then they traded Perkins, and it really hurt them, and basically crippled their ability to win a title.

Ok, agree to disagree, I don't see that with Rondo at all.

I will ask you though, if Rondo is a clear All-Star level player, why does the Celtics defense not really get worse without Rondo, and why was the Celtics offense only ranked 18th in the league last year, despite having KG, Allen, and Pierce? Replacing Rondo with Tony Parker would've had the Celtics top 10 offensively, at least, imo. Rondo is a liability on offense, to be honest.

[GodDamnRobin]

I don't believe in advanced numbers, whether they help or hurt my argument. I think it's plainly untrue that Rondo hurts the Celtics by being on the court though. I mean, he has weaknesses, like his poor shooting. Overall though he's a fantastically valuable player. Maybe he's not Tony Parker valuable, but Tony Parker is a fantastically valuable player also, so that's no insult.

The Celtics were 34-10 in games Rondo played, prior to losing Perkins. That's better than they were doing without him, and better than they did in games Rondo played overall, which highlights how losing Perkins hurt them. Watching the games, it seemed to me Rondo was incredibly important to the Celtics winning. There's also a clear correlation in his stats- Rondo plays well, Celtics win. Rondo plays worse, Celtics are more likely to lose (http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lits/2011/ look at his stats in wins v.s loses, the guy is no stat padder). He also played better statistically before the Perkins trade.

[therealbig3]

Ok, fair enough.