CP3 trade talk thread (Clippers deal on life support Pg.83)

[blocks]

the Lakers sent their second and arguably 3rd best player for Paul, so idk wtf your talking about. Way to exaggerate.

Nah. Their most valuable commodities are Kobe and Bynum. Pau may be #3 and he was headed to Houston, not N.O. The Hornets were getting LA's FOURTH best player, Odom.

Well in the Clippers trade...

Let's list the Clippers by minutes played last year:

Griffin
Gordon
Gomes
Jordan
Bledsoe.

The Clippers give up one player who played the 5th most minutes on a 32 win team.

Let's look at the Laker by minutes played last year:

Pau
Kobe
Odom
Artest
Fisher

The Lakers give up 2 of their top 3 in most minutes on a team that won 57 games.

Go ahead and talk about talent and salary, disregarding the new minimum salary, which NO ONE is talking about (moving from 75 to 85 this year, 90 next year).

[DRose4MVP]

"The Hornets are basically saying "Give us what we want or we will veto the trade" "

Well, umm yes. But so what? Why wouldn't they expect to get what they want? Why wouldn't they turn down a trade they find inadequate or unhelpful to their needs or desires?

You have a frikkin superstar, and the Lakers propose to send their 4th or 5th best player for him. The Clippers are refusing to include their 3rd best player along with a good pick. And you can't figure out why the NO owner (aka Stern) is saying no?

Let the Mavs offer a trade for Kobe or Blake, headlined by Jason Terry and/or Shawn Marion. Would you complain that LA "vetoed the trade"? I doubt it.

Please don't tell me you are trying to intimate the Gordon is the Clippers' 3rd best player. Please don't.

Yeah really, how could anyone argue that he isn't their 2nd best? He averaged 20+ ppg's for crying out loud. EJ is so underrated, I swear. He should be mentioned with the likes of Westbrook and Love, but never gets talked about. So under the radar.

[Poit]

Dunno why people keep stressing this. Were not even talking about the same deal. LALs one was for an extended CP while LAC have to take on a gamble to convince him to stay. Big difference right there.
If you only look at it from a competive standpoint in the present, yes LALs clearly beats LACs. But what about 2 years from now? High payroll borderline PO Team at best, doesnt sound to enticing for a potential buyer. Still i get that folks are mad for the way it went down.

I also get that not includung Gordon looks like a steal. But unless there are Teams capable and willing of beating the offer theres no reason to up the ante. And the longer into the season the less value a rental will have.

[blocks]

Dunno why people keep stressing this. Were not even talking about the same deal. LALs one was for an extended CP while LAC have to take on a gamble to convince him to stay. Big difference right there.
If you only look at it from a competive standpoint in the present, yes LALs clearly beats LACs. But what about 2 years from now? High payroll borderline PO Team at best, doesnt sound to enticing for a potential buyer. Still i get that folks are mad for the way it went down.

I also get that not includung Gordon looks like a steal. But unless there are Teams capable and willing of beating the offer theres no reason to up the ante. And the longer into the season the less value a rental will have.

There is a minimum salary that is 49.3M this year, opposed to 43.5M last year.

And NEXT year, assuming the cap stays the same, it is 52M

Lots of people are bitching about the Hornet's taking on salary, but given the new CBA...It's a fact of existence that they will be overpaying people.

[DBoys]

Laker offer was a pile of dog poop. No player worth having for NO. So is the Clips' w/o Gordon.

[Jordan45822]

I hope Stern comes out and says that there will be no more Paul trade talks and he is staying. We all know that what he really wants

[smokeylarue]

There is no question talent wise the Lakers package was superior. We're talking 3 borderline All-Stars here (Odom, Scola, Kevin Martin) and for sure starters. Bledsoe and Aminu are trash comparatively, Kaman is just there for his expiring. The NBA is right for asking for Gordon, otherwise the Clippers deal is garbage.

[aurareturn1]

There is no question talent wise the Lakers package was superior. We're talking 3 borderline All-Stars here (Odom, Scola, Kevin Martin) and for sure starters. Bledsoe and Aminu are trash comparatively, Kaman is just there for his expiring. The NBA is right for asking for Gordon, otherwise the Clippers deal is garbage.

Truth. Bledsoe and Aminu look like trash in their rookie years. Both could end up being busts. Minny's pick is not guaranteed to be good since Adelman and Derrick Williams are with the Wolves.

[DBoys]

There is a minimum salary that is 49.3M this year, opposed to 43.5M last year.

And NEXT year, assuming the cap stays the same, it is 52M

Lots of people are bitching about the Hornet's taking on salary, but given the new CBA...It's a fact of existence that they will be overpaying people.

But they won't have to offer "one superstar" in exchange. All it will take to get the same players they were getting in the Lakers trade - perhaps on cheaper deals - will be cap room. Heck, they could have had Odom for free if they had cap room two days ago. And there are tons of bargains to be had in free agency, if you are smart about it.

In fact, if the Hornets could shed all their contracts, and keep Paul, next summer they could add the equivalent of Scola, Odom, Martin - and still have Paul too. That would be their best move.

[aurareturn1]

There is a minimum salary that is 49.3M this year, opposed to 43.5M last year.

And NEXT year, assuming the cap stays the same, it is 52M

Lots of people are bitching about the Hornet's taking on salary, but given the new CBA...It's a fact of existence that they will be overpaying people.

But they won't have to offer "one superstar" in exchange. All it will take to get the same players they were getting in the Lakers trade - perhaps on cheaper deals - will be cap room. Heck, they could have had Odom for free if they had cap room two days ago. And there are tons of bargains to be had in free agency, if you are smart about it.

In fact, if the Hornets could shed all their contracts, and keep Paul, next summer they could add the equivalent of Scola, Odom, Martin - and still have Paul too. That would be their best move.

Odom was traded because he demanded a trade. If Odom didn't demand a trade, his value would have been a lot higher.

[Kabookalu]

There is no question talent wise the Lakers package was superior. We're talking 3 borderline All-Stars here (Odom, Scola, Kevin Martin) and for sure starters. Bledsoe and Aminu are trash comparatively, Kaman is just there for his expiring. The NBA is right for asking for Gordon, otherwise the Clippers deal is garbage.

Superior if you think building a treadmill team is better than rebuilding.

[mysticbb]

There is a minimum salary that is 49.3M this year, opposed to 43.5M last year.

And NEXT year, assuming the cap stays the same, it is 52M

You are incorrect about this. They changed the minimum salary floor from the tentative agreement and now it is setto 80% of the salary cap in this season, 85% next and 90% in two years. That means in this season the minimum salary floor is $46.435m (salary cap stays at $58.044m).

Lots of people are bitching about the Hornet's taking on salary, but given the new CBA...It's a fact of existence that they will be overpaying people.

I agree that not desired markets will likely overpay for marginal talent in order to at least meet the minimum salary floor.


Anyway, the Clippers offer is garbage for a superstar PG. People seem to overvalue the Timberwolves' Pick and Eric Gordon. Gordon is a 6-3 undersized SG, who has his main strength at scoring. Granted he is pretty efficient at that, but he is below average in everything else for a SG. And the interesting thing is that Chris Paul showed to be at least as good as a scorer while being superior in everything else.
If I would be a potential buyer I would not even like getting Gordon+Pick, because in order to have a team build around Eric Gordon being successful I would need substantial talent at all other positions. With Chris Paul an average supporting cast is enough to be close to contend. The latter is much cheaper, while Chris Paul will draw more attention and will make it easier to sell tickets and TV contracts. I would rather take my chances at being able to convince Paul to stay than trade him now. If the new owner is found and the chances aren't there, Paul can still be traded.

[G R E Y]

Paul has a role in this too no?

Given permission by the Hornets to speak with Paul, Clippers officials had a recent phone conversation with the All-Star point guard in which he expressed excitement about the possibility of playing with guard Eric Gordon and the potential of the unprotected 2012 first-round draft pick the Clippers have acquired from the Minnesota Timberwolves, league sources said. The Clippers worry that surrendering both of those assets in any package for Paul would be detrimental to their efforts to convince him to stay with the franchise for the long-term.

Asshat move by Paul. He should just keep his mouth shut if he really wants to get traded and get his money. Instead, he's hampering negotiations by implying he'll sign with LAC if they hold on to the very assets that would be coming NOH's way for him. He's either not at all sold on LAC, doesn't care about the money after all, or wants to stick it to the NBA so badly that he'll cut off his nose to spite his face.
Brilliant tactics

And if NOH won't give in to Paul's every desire, the Clippers, it seems, are wiling to fawn. Do they think Paul wants to play with Gordon so much that he'll take less $$$ down the line as FA to play with him (assuming the deal falls apart if it doesn't include both EJ and Minny's pick)?

[wfiles]

it's obvious now that Chris Paul doesn't really want to go to the Clippers. Since he only guarantees them for 2 years. and then saying he wants to play with eric gordon and have the clippers keep the minny 1st.

[Kabookalu]

Anyway, the Clippers offer is garbage for a superstar PG. People seem to overvalue the Timberwolves' Pick and Eric Gordon.

I'm pretty sure you've failed to understand the situation surrounding the circumstances. Hornets have close to no leverage in any trade involving Chris Paul what with dictating where he wants to go on one side and Stern denying trades on the other. Demps is left pincered.

[mysticbb]

I'm pretty sure you've failed to understand the situation surrounding the circumstances. Hornets have close to no leverage in any trade involving Chris Paul what with dictating where he wants to go on one side and Stern denying trades on the other. Demps is left pincered.

I'm pretty sure that you are the one failing to understand the situation at all. No leverage? Like the Nuggets last year or the Jazz? Look what they got for their star players and both are below Paul in actual playing level. No, the Hornets have a lot of leverage, because everyone wants to have Paul. There is also no need to trade him right away, because chances are that Paul likes the new owner and the presented concept while opting to stay with the Hornets. The Hornets can still offer the most money to him. The most desired teams for him seems to have no room to pay him max (Knicks or Lakers).

And while Demps can't do much, the truth is, that is likely the way a potential owners wants to have that situation. Why would I want to buy a franchise who just gave away one of the best players in the league? Why should I want to pay for that a huge amount of money in order to suck for the upcoming years? I wouldn't do it. I would want Paul to stay and I would believe I have the right concept to convince him to stay. And the NBA has to listen to those potential buyers too, something most here seem to ignore completely.

[Pofukauskas]

Clippers should just make an ultimatum to the NBA Hornets. "We offer Minny pick+Kaman+Aminu+Bledsoe and not a dime more. No more negotiation. You have to make up your mind until Wednesday 8 p.m. after that we're not talking to you again. We will just offer max to Paul or Deron next year and draft another star talent via Minny pick. It's not like many good/talented teams will be able to offer max to those two." Clippers have all the leverage in this case and really MUST NOT back down!

[maoriboy]

Clippers should just make an ultimatum to the NBA Hornets. "We offer Minny pick+Kaman+Aminu+Bledsoe and not a dime more. No more negotiation. You have to make up your mind until Wednesday 8 p.m. after that we're not talking to you again. We will just offer max to Paul or Deron next year and draft another star talent via Minny pick. It's not like many good/talented teams will be able to offer max to those two." Clippers have all the leverage in this case and really MUST NOT back down!

Hornets reply with "Hey um bro, Chris and Deron are gonna want their payday, so thats when we do this thing called a Sign and trade, or we could just trade him for Rondo - Green - Bradley and a Clipper pick because they don't care if he resigns".

Leverage regained.

Expect talks with Boston to heat up then you see on ESPN "Gordon - Minn pick - Kamen - Bledsoe for Paul"

[mysticbb]

We will just offer max to Paul or Deron next year and draft another star talent via Minny pick.

Chances are that the Clippers will not have max capspace next summer. Jordan, Griffin, Butler, Gomes, Aminu, Bledsoe + caphold for Gordon + caphold for the rookie + caphold for the open roster spots will likely exceed $44m, with the salary cap at $60m, that leaves at most $16m in capspace while the max for Paul and Williams will start at $18m. And all that includes the amnesty of Mo Williams already. Good luck with that strategy to convince two players who are expected to get a 103.5/5 max offer from their teams to accept 68/4.

[ChrisTheFuturePaul]

Ugh, its just painful to watch all of this....

1. The circus itself is so fanboy on here
2. Chris Paul has shown his true colours and he is a dick.
3. The NBA completely mishandled the LA offer the Hornets agreed to
4. Lakers fans acting like life after Kobe isnt a big deal
5. Clippers being Clippers
6. Chris Paul making himself a more hate-able person in sports media than LeBron James
7. Chris Paul actually thinks hes right
8. Dell Demps being treated like a bad GM
9. The Hornets still have 5 players under contract
10. Dave Letterman hasn't made a top 10 list about this yet.