James eyeing Howard's Defensive Player Of Year award

[Bladers]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/12922/james-eyeing-howards-top-defender-award

ORLANDO – Even in election years, the Miami Heat typically don't make a habit of campaigning for their players when it comes to consideration for individual NBA awards.

So it's a good thing LeBron James' candidacy speaks so profoundly for itself these days.

The fact LeBron is likely a frontrunner for his third Most Valuable Player award in the midst of the most efficient season a player has had in NBA history is a no-brainer. But it's the legitimate case he's making for another of the league's highest honors that's a bit mind-boggling.

Move over, Dwight Howard.

Maybe next season, Serge Ibaka.

Why? Because LeBron should be on his way to defensive player of the year accolades this season, too. Perhaps no stretch of play can underscore LeBron's value on the defensive side of the ball more than his potential assignments over these next two games.

Seriously Seriously?

People always ask why is Lebron so overrated by ESPN. We saw last night Lebron guarding the PG as the article alluded to, but he was burned for those few possessions. But regardless of the result, just because a player is serviceable to guard several positions doesn't make him effective at doing it.

That's what I believe most people fail to realize. Switching onto someone for 2 mins doesn't mean you would be effective if you play them for a full 48 mins. Earl proved that last night.

Here's the Lebron vs Durant defensive stats. The top is Lebron and the Bottom is Durant.
One thing to watch is the FG% and the Points per play allowed.

Lebron ranks 195 in defense. while Durant ranks 97. How can a guy ranking 195 in defense be a runner for DPOY award?

[s_g_b]

Bargnani ranked #1 for a while before injuries.

He is DPOTY.

[SideshowBob]

Synergy Stats just scratch the surface for defensive stats. For reference, they rank Dwight Howard as the 46th best defender in the league. They don't consider off ball defense nor help defense at all (which is the most significant aspect, as it's what affects team DRTGs the most). They also don't consider WHO is being guarded.

2009: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking09
2010: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking10
2011: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking11
2012: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking_rec

His DRAPM is a little bit below where it's been the last 3 seasons, though still in the same range. Also, this hasn't been updated since February 18th (J.E.'s on vacation and he's said that he'll be updating after he returns on the 26th), and his defense has been notably better in the last month than it was to start off the year, and it's shown in the Heat's gradually improving DRTG.

Drza even pointed out in a thread on the PC board (thread regarding Deng's value to the Bulls) that Lebron's been up there with the top defensive big men in Engelmann's 08-11 study. He also mentioned that we've seen evidence before of great defensive Small Forwards being capable of having this kind of impact on the defense, without being dominant shot blockers.

On the '04 - '09 Ilardi study, Artest (+5.1 on defense), right in a group with Ben Wallace (+5.2), Tim Duncan (+4.8) , Ratlif (+4.6), and Camby (+4.2). Battier (+3.9) and Kirileknko (+3.5) weren't far behind.

Similarly, in Englemann's '08 - '11 study LeBron (+3.7 on defense) was right there with Dwight Howard (+4.0), Duncan (+3.9), Josh Smith (+4.1) and Andrew Bogut (+4.2). And in that study Deng was +3.0 on defense, not far behind.

The value of a dominant shot blocker comes from the threat of the block. They scare the opposing teams' penetrators from attacking the rim; essentially, their impact on defense comes not from the blocks, but from creating hesitation in the offensive players' minds and forcing them to change the offensive game plan.

What we see with these Small Forwards is not shot blocking, but rather, their ability to cover the floor well. Rather than greatly altering high percentage shots at the rim, they moderately alter every shot they can get to. It seems to create a similar level of impact as a shot blocking big man, and that's a big part of why we see these guys pop up so high on these defensive APM studies. If we had PbP data from the 90s, I reckon we'd see Pippen be in the same mold as these guys (Artest, James, Battier, Kirilenko, etc.).


If anything, ESPN is UNDERRATING his defense, as all they talk about is him being a versatile positional defender.

[Bladers]

Bargnani ranked #1 for a while before injuries.

He is DPOTY.

He is ranked 11 atm. Maybe its because He's a good defender for his positon? ever considered that?

Carlos Bozer is ranked 333, which is pretty accurate.

[heatwillbeback]

Stats dont mean much

lebron is the key man defender in late game situations. He is the key help defender most of the game. He goes off his man to help teammates, and the Heats defensive system calls for over helping to a certain extent, giving up the 3 ball at times.

He guards the 2-3-4 at an elite level, and could guard the 1 and 5 in given situations, like being on the ball against Collison to throw the Pacers offense through a loop just last week.

His versatility is truly stunning, and needed since the Heat have him in so many key defensive roles

Synergy here measures if the man he is guarding scores. With him being the key of the Heat's help, that stat really doesnt measure anything of significance.

Its kind of you gotta see it type of thing with Lebrons defense

With that said, Dwight is a monster and what he does with that team is amazing. Nelson, Reddick, Turk are all below average defenders, and he makes that d work. He deserves the DPOY imo, but if anybody is to unseat him, Lebron is the best choice.

[fallacy]

Ibaka has a decent chance to win it this year, his hype has reached very high levels

[JordansBulls]

Iggy or Deng as just as good of defenders as Lebron if not better.

[Next Coming]

Someone educate me on how James deserves this over Howard and don't use the, "because I want to see something new" angle.

[heatwillbeback]

Synergy Stats just scratch the surface for defensive stats. For reference, they rank Dwight Howard as the 46th best defender in the league. They don't consider off ball defense nor help defense at all (which is the most significant aspect, as it's what affects team DRTGs the most). They also don't consider WHO is being guarded.

2009: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking09
2010: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking10
2011: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking11
2012: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking_rec

His DRAPM is a little bit below where it's been the last 3 seasons, though still in the same range. Also, this hasn't been updated since February 18th (J.E.'s on vacation and he's said that he'll be updating after he returns on the 26th), and his defense has been notably better in the last month than it was to start off the year, and it's shown in the Heat's gradually improving DRTG.

Drza even pointed out in a thread on the PC board (thread regarding Deng's value to the Bulls) that Lebron's been up there with the top defensive big men in Engelmann's 08-11 study. He also mentioned that we've seen evidence before of great defensive Small Forwards being capable of having this kind of impact on the defense, without being dominant shot blockers.

On the '04 - '09 Ilardi study, Artest (+5.1 on defense), right in a group with Ben Wallace (+5.2), Tim Duncan (+4.8) , Ratlif (+4.6), and Camby (+4.2). Battier (+3.9) and Kirileknko (+3.5) weren't far behind.

Similarly, in Englemann's '08 - '11 study LeBron (+3.7 on defense) was right there with Dwight Howard (+4.0), Duncan (+3.9), Josh Smith (+4.1) and Andrew Bogut (+4.2). And in that study Deng was +3.0 on defense, not far behind.

The value of a dominant shot blocker comes from the threat of the block. They scare the opposing teams' penetrators from attacking the rim; essentially, their impact on defense comes not from the blocks, but from creating hesitation in the offensive players' minds and forcing them to change the offensive game plan.

What we see with these Small Forwards is not shot blocking, but rather, their ability to cover the floor well. Rather than greatly altering high percentage shots at the rim, they moderately alter every shot they can get to. It seems to create a similar level of impact as a shot blocking big man, and that's a big part of why we see these guys pop up so high on these defensive APM studies. If we had PbP data from the 90s, I reckon we'd see Pippen be in the same mold as these guys (Artest, James, Battier, Kirilenko, etc.).


If anything, ESPN is UNDERRATING his defense, as all they talk about is him being a versatile positional defender.

and Dwight is 46 because his "man" scores when he helps on others at times. Its the same for Lebron and the Heat's defense.

Synergy is weak at showing that for sure.

[JamesNaismith]

Wow not even close.

I'll consider it when Lebron stops trolling the dunk contest year in and year out. Until then, both are all talk.

[heatwillbeback]

Someone educate me on how James deserves this over Howard and don't use the, "because I want to see something new" angle.

Versatility would be the best argument, but as I said in my post, it probably wont be enough. Dwight is a true anchor who covers up the faults of his teammates.

[Bladers]

Synergy Stats just scratch the surface for defensive stats. For reference, they rank Dwight Howard as the 46th best defender in the league. They don't consider off ball defense nor help defense at all (which is the most significant aspect, as it's what affects team DRTGs the most). They also don't consider WHO is being guarded.

2009: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking09
2010: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking10
2011: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking11
2012: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking_rec

His DRAPM is a little bit below where it's been the last 3 seasons, though still in the same range. Also, this hasn't been updated since February 18th (J.E.'s on vacation and he's said that he'll be updating after he returns on the 26th), and his defense has been notably better in the last month than it was to start off the year, and it's shown in the Heat's gradually improving DRTG.

Drza even pointed out in a thread on the PC board (thread regarding Deng's value to the Bulls) that Lebron's been up there with the top defensive big men in Engelmann's 08-11 study. He also mentioned that we've seen evidence before of great defensive Small Forwards being capable of having this kind of impact on the defense, without being dominant shot blockers.

On the '04 - '09 Ilardi study, Artest (+5.1 on defense), right in a group with Ben Wallace (+5.2), Tim Duncan (+4.8) , Ratlif (+4.6), and Camby (+4.2). Battier (+3.9) and Kirileknko (+3.5) weren't far behind.

Similarly, in Englemann's '08 - '11 study LeBron (+3.7 on defense) was right there with Dwight Howard (+4.0), Duncan (+3.9), Josh Smith (+4.1) and Andrew Bogut (+4.2). And in that study Deng was +3.0 on defense, not far behind.

The value of a dominant shot blocker comes from the threat of the block. They scare the opposing teams' penetrators from attacking the rim; essentially, their impact on defense comes not from the blocks, but from creating hesitation in the offensive players' minds and forcing them to change the offensive game plan.

What we see with these Small Forwards is not shot blocking, but rather, their ability to cover the floor well. Rather than greatly altering high percentage shots at the rim, they moderately alter every shot they can get to. It seems to create a similar level of impact as a shot blocking big man, and that's a big part of why we see these guys pop up so high on these defensive APM studies. If we had PbP data from the 90s, I reckon we'd see Pippen be in the same mold as these guys (Artest, James, Battier, Kirilenko, etc.).


If anything, ESPN is UNDERRATING his defense, as all they talk about is him being a versatile positional defender.

No Absolutely not. All you posted are fabricated measurement of statistics. That are not even peer reviewed or scientifically verified. Its like PER.

Its nonsense. If I guard a player 10 times and in those ten times he goes 2 of 10. Then he's 20% against me.
If someone guards him and he goes 7 of 10. Then he's 70% against them.

Wouldn't that show I'm the better defender at guarding him than they?

There is no need for a fabricated non reviewed or confirmed measurement of statistics.

Every thing we need is already covered. Field Goal attempt and Field Goal Made, Plus turnover, etc...

And Dwight Howard is 46 because he covers so much ground, He's really switches alot, guards and contests every shot at the basket.

[SweetTouch]

Synergy Stats just scratch the surface for defensive stats. For reference, they rank Dwight Howard as the 46th best defender in the league. They don't consider off ball defense nor help defense at all (which is the most significant aspect, as it's what affects team DRTGs the most). They also don't consider WHO is being guarded.

2009: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking09
2010: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking10
2011: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking11
2012: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking_rec

His DRAPM is a little bit below where it's been the last 3 seasons, though still in the same range. Also, this hasn't been updated since February 18th (J.E.'s on vacation and he's said that he'll be updating after he returns on the 26th), and his defense has been notably better in the last month than it was to start off the year, and it's shown in the Heat's gradually improving DRTG.

Drza even pointed out in a thread on the PC board (thread regarding Deng's value to the Bulls) that Lebron's been up there with the top defensive big men in Engelmann's 08-11 study. He also mentioned that we've seen evidence before of great defensive Small Forwards being capable of having this kind of impact on the defense, without being dominant shot blockers.

On the '04 - '09 Ilardi study, Artest (+5.1 on defense), right in a group with Ben Wallace (+5.2), Tim Duncan (+4.8) , Ratlif (+4.6), and Camby (+4.2). Battier (+3.9) and Kirileknko (+3.5) weren't far behind.

Similarly, in Englemann's '08 - '11 study LeBron (+3.7 on defense) was right there with Dwight Howard (+4.0), Duncan (+3.9), Josh Smith (+4.1) and Andrew Bogut (+4.2). And in that study Deng was +3.0 on defense, not far behind.

The value of a dominant shot blocker comes from the threat of the block. They scare the opposing teams' penetrators from attacking the rim; essentially, their impact on defense comes not from the blocks, but from creating hesitation in the offensive players' minds and forcing them to change the offensive game plan.

What we see with these Small Forwards is not shot blocking, but rather, their ability to cover the floor well. Rather than greatly altering high percentage shots at the rim, they moderately alter every shot they can get to. It seems to create a similar level of impact as a shot blocking big man, and that's a big part of why we see these guys pop up so high on these defensive APM studies. If we had PbP data from the 90s, I reckon we'd see Pippen be in the same mold as these guys (Artest, James, Battier, Kirilenko, etc.).


If anything, ESPN is UNDERRATING his defense, as all they talk about is him being a versatile positional defender.

someone who actually watches the games, props

It's hard to use the previous stats, when great defensive players are always switched to guard other positions every other defensive possession.

[Dwyane Rose]

No Absolutely not. All you posted are fabricated measurement of statistics. That are not even peer reviewed or scientifically verified. Its like PER.

Its nonsense. If I guard a player 10 times and in those ten times he goes 2 of 10. Then he's 20% against me.
If someone guards him and he goes 7 of 10. Then he's 70% against them.

Wouldn't that show I'm the better defender at guarding him than they?

There is no need for a fabricated non reviewed or confirmed measurement of statistics.

Every thing we need is already covered. Field Goal attempt and Field Goal Made, Plus turnover, etc...

And Dwight Howard is 46 because he covers so much ground, He's really switches alot, guards and contests every shot at the basket.

There's a more variables than that. 10 shots cant gouge whos a better defender. Just because John Lucas went off last night doesn't make anyone on the Heat a bad defender.

[SideshowBob]

No Absolutely not. All you posted are fabricated measurement of statistics. That are not even peer reviewed or scientifically verified. Its like PER.

There's nothing "fabricated" in those stats. There's no formula, it's +/- numbers. Nothing like PER at all.

Its nonsense. If I guard a player 10 times and in those ten times he goes 2 of 10. Then he's 20% against me.
If someone guards him and he goes 7 of 10. Then he's 70% against them.

Wouldn't that show I'm the better defender at guarding him than they?

No. Imagine you're being defended by point guard A, who is a notoriously weak defender who struggles to stay in front of his man. You get by point guard A, and look to attack the basket, however, small forward B quickly comes in to help, blocking your way from the basket, forcing you to pull up for a jumper, and you brick it. Point guard A is credited with forcing you to miss a field goal, however, point guard A played no part in you missing that field goal.

Every thing we need is already covered. Field Goal attempt and Field Goal Made, Plus turnover, etc...

Yes, although, with ZERO context.

And Dwight Howard is 46 because he covers so much ground, He's really switches alot, guards and contests every shot at the basket.

Yes, and Lebron James is 195 because HE ALSO covers so much ground, switches like heck, and guards and alters almost every shot he can get to. I'm pretty sure I covered this in my earlier post. I'm guessing you just glanced at the stats and didn't actually read it.

[JordansBulls]

After John Lucas III torchered him yesterday he shouldn't make any defensive team yet alone get the DPOY.

[joeyhalog]

LOL one contested jump shot that went in then his out??

[SideshowBob]

After John Lucas III torchered him yesterday he shouldn't make any defensive team yet alone get the DPOY.

Did he torture him or torch him

[Bladers]

No Absolutely not. All you posted are fabricated measurement of statistics. That are not even peer reviewed or scientifically verified. Its like PER.

Its nonsense. If I guard a player 10 times and in those ten times he goes 2 of 10. Then he's 20% against me.
If someone guards him and he goes 7 of 10. Then he's 70% against them.

Wouldn't that show I'm the better defender at guarding him than they?

There is no need for a fabricated non reviewed or confirmed measurement of statistics.

Every thing we need is already covered. Field Goal attempt and Field Goal Made, Plus turnover, etc...

And Dwight Howard is 46 because he covers so much ground, He's really switches alot, guards and contests every shot at the basket.

There's a more variables than that. 10 shots cant gouge whos a better defender. Just because John Lucas went off last night doesn't make anyone on the Heat a bad defender.

But a whole season of shots does. There is a reason Carlos boozer is ranked 333 according to mysnergysports which is based on REAL STATS.

while the fabricated measurement of statistics (defensive wins shares) has carlos boozer of all people at #8. And to compare, Lebron is ranked at #5.

We know Boozer doesn't know what defense is if it hit him in his face, we know he's probably the worst defensive player in the league. So why is he ranked #8?

Because these measurement of statistics like PER and WIN shares are flawed.

He is ranked 333 at Mysnergysports and rightfully so.

Lets look at Defensive Rating (another fabricated measurement of stats)
1. Dwight Howard-ORL 93.2
2. Elton Brand-PHI 94.0
3. Josh Smith-ATL 94.9
4. Kevin Garnett-BOS 95.0
5. Marcus Camby-POR 95.2
6. Andre Iguodala-PHI 95.6
7. Joakim Noah-CHI 96.1
8. Carlos Boozer-CHI 96.3
9. Evan Turner-PHI 96.4
10. Andrew Bynum-LAL 96.5
11. LeBron James-MIA


You see how flawed it is? whats the conclusion? you can't trust these un-verified calculations.
You can only trust RAW STATS. The FGA and Made, forced turnover, etc for each player and play against them

[andherewego]

Lebron doesn't deserve DPOY, his D's a little overrated. Iggy's a much better wing defender..and Lebron often gets torched on isolation plays