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Someone on another board mentioned casually that Gary Payton "locked up" Jordan in the '96 Finals, and I laughed to myself at such a claim...noob...then...I looked at the gamelog.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/1996/

Michael was averaged 32 points per on 48% shooting in the playoffs before the last three Finals games when Payton took over on him.

In the last three games, he averaged 23.7 points on 36.7% shooting. And his assists went down also.

So maybe "The Glove" did better than I remembered?

No one could shut down Jordan, but Payton probably did the best possible job on a big stage. A lot of people believe Seattle could've won the series had Payton been on Jordan from Game 1.

Joe Dumars probably did the best job I've ever seen on Jordan

Yes and No ,

Yes, he can somehow slow down Michael Jordan, make MJ got his 35 points from 25 shots than 20 shots is already a big accomplishments for anyone. That's the closest thing to "Lock Down" MJ.

Oh, his turnovers also went from 2.1 to 3.7.

I'm watching some highlights here...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-AMtjN4um0[/youtube]

TylerTheDebater wrote:No one could shut down Jordan, but Payton probably did the best possible job on a big stage. A lot of people believe Seattle could've won the series had Payton been on Jordan from Game 1.

"locked up", "shut down"... no

"slow down"... yes

Also please define "a lot of people"...

I love that series and have watched it many times over the years. There are a few factors to MJ's performances.

For the record, YES I think that Payton did the best of everyone, and Dumars would have a case if he didn't have to guard MJ in his prime (he's blazed the Pistons numerous times with Dumars and others covering).


1. MJ was simply not playing his best. He even said so himself in an interview after one of the games that he'd been missing a lot of shots that he would normally make.

2. Payton guarded him VERY well. Payton was in his prime at the time, and was an absolute pest. I consider him one of the GOAT guard defenders.

3. Karl had very good defenses on Jordan and swarmed him at times.

4. People overlook this but IMO the Bulls cruising and winning the first 3 games had a lot to do with this. Usually, you saw a furiously driven MJ. He didn't seem like a man on a mission as he normally is. I could be wrong, but I believe that winning the first 3 games made MJ actually play at a lower level. He probably knew they'd take the series.

Now keep in mind Payton had guarded MJ previously and MJ had done very well against him. George Karl had tried many things to tamper with MJ (look up the "George Karl" game).

True: Gary Payton was able to somewhat slow down a 33 year old MJ who was a year and a half removed from playing right field for the Birmingham Barons during a series that featured a Bulls team that was somewhere between "coasting" and "cruising".

False: Gary Payton, even if you let him play with a 2"x4", could lock down a prime MJ.

In this series also Luc Longley and Ron Harper played unbelieveably well in the offence. In Game 3 as I remember well, Luc Longley played the best game of his career (he scored about 21 points) and Harper was a silent hero of the 1996 NBA Finals. He made few very important three point shots.

The vote for Finals MVP was 5-2 or 4-3 for Jordan over Rodman.

But yes, Payton played superb in defense vs. Jordan. I've watched this finals many times.

No one could lock down MJ, but Payton was one of the few that could slow him down and make him inefficient. And probably the only PG in NBA history that could.

Payton played good defense (duh) the end of the 96 series, Michael was kind of off, and the Sonics were also a great defensive team in total so he had some help. Check Pip and Kukoc's numbers for instance in those Finals, off more than MJs.

Career head to head though hardly a dent in MJs numbers (30.5 PPG, 47% FG). For example the first game of the following season, the George Karl 'con game', Michael dumped 45 on the Sonics and The Glove (19/28 shooting). Many games the Sonics didn't want to risk taxing Payton with MJ too much and possible foul trouble, which was in a manner, admitting defeat of the matchup.

Gary Payton did very well in guarding MJ in that series. MJ finally met a true guard in his six finals.

I definitely agree that Harper was a beast and Longley played better than usual (but he sucks). But to say someone else was the MVP would be silly.

People underrate how important a player like Kobe/MJ is simply because of the defensive attention they warrant. MJ caused coaches esp. Karl, Riley, Brown among others.... nightmares, it's no secret, and for that series Karl not only focused his defensive schemes on the Bulls, but also MJ.

A lot of easy buckets are given to teammates because of unstoppable offensive forces like MJ. The centers/3-pt shooters above all benefit from that.

For instance, look at Steve Kerr's "36 minutes" stats. Look at the 3 pointers attempted for his 3-peat with the Bulls, after MJ returned and how they shot up. You'll see what I mean.

And then after that, they stayed up with the Spurs because the Spurs were ridiculously stacked and he played an even bigger roll for the Spurs.

MJ couldn't even stop LaBradford Smith :runs:

T or F: ____ could lock down Michael Jordan.

F.

And career-wise, I think Dumars did a better job than Payton.

imo there are just superstars you can't "lock down", no matter which defensive goat player you put on that player. remember when it comes to players great scorer>great defender. players like jordan,kareem,shaq,magic,bird, etc. imo only way you can slowdown these players is you have to somehow match their production, make them play D on you too, and then you have to play good D on them.

Gary Payton was amazing to watch

He was the best defensive guard and i don't give a damn!

he exposed Jordan

EvilSperm wrote:Gary Payton was amazing to watch

He was the best defensive guard and i don't give a damn!

he exposed Jordan

whew haha that's good!

bledredwine wrote:

EvilSperm wrote:Gary Payton was amazing to watch

He was the best defensive guard and i don't give a damn!

he exposed Jordan

whew haha that's good!

Coming into the Finals...Jordan was averaging 36.3ppg

From Games 4 to 6, where payton was guarding Jordan (because Harper was injured) he shot just 36.6% and if you really want to count Game 3, where Payton guarded him halfway (And the times he did guard him, Jordan shot less than the whole game) he was still shooting in the 30% mark.

Game 4: Jordan 6-19 FG
Game 5: Jordan 11-22 FG
game 6: 5-19 FG


u cant tell me Payton didnt do work on Jordan