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And it's not even close.
Their offense currently has a team TS% of 59.8%. To put this in perspective, let's look at some other all time great offenses

2004-05 Phoenix 57.0 TS%
1985-86 Celtics 56.4 TS%
1986-87 Lakers 57.7 TS%
1995-96 Bulls 55.5 TS%
1992-93 Suns 56.6 TS%
1996-97 Jazz 58.0 TS%
1994-95 Sonics 57.5 TS%
1991-92 Bulls 55.4 TS%
1984-85 Lakers 58.9 TS%

As a TEAM in the 3 point era, they currently rank. 1st all time in TS%, 6th in eFG%, 1st in 3P FG%, and 1st in FT% all time. Up to this point, this is far and away the most efficient scoring team in the history of the game.

And to top things off, their defense is only allowing opponents to shoot 50.9 TS%

That's insane

Then their rebounding, turnovers, and opponent turnovers must be bad because their record and win margin aren't as historic.

JackFinn wrote:Then their rebounding, turnovers, and opponent turnovers must be bad because their record and win margin aren't as historic.

9th in rebounding, like 24th in turnovers.

7th in SRS all time only behind 92 Chi, 96 Chi, 96 Chi, 71 Mil, 72 Mil, 72 LAL
9th in MOV all time, every team in front of them won the title

28reloaded wrote:1998-99 Spurs 52.0 TS%
2003-04 Pistons 51.1 TS%
2007-08 Celtics 54.5 TS%
1989-90 Pistons 51.3 TS%

No idea how you came up with those numbers, but there are wrong.



The Thunder are not even close to be the best defensive team in terms of opponents TS%.

28reloaded wrote:

JackFinn wrote:Then their rebounding, turnovers, and opponent turnovers must be bad because their record and win margin aren't as historic.

9th in rebounding, like 24th in turnovers.

7th in SRS all time only behind 92 Chi, 96 Chi, 96 Chi, 71 Mil, 72 Mil, 72 LAL
9th in MOV all time, every team in front of them won the title

JackFinn must have some insane expectations

mysticbb wrote:

28reloaded wrote:1998-99 Spurs 52.0 TS%
2003-04 Pistons 51.1 TS%
2007-08 Celtics 54.5 TS%
1989-90 Pistons 51.3 TS%

No idea how you came up with those numbers, but there are wrong.

Code: Select all

Season   Tm   OppTS%
1998-99  SAS*    46.4
1998-99  ATL*    48.0
2003-04  SAS*    48.0
2000-01  SAS*    48.3
2003-04  DET*    48.4
2011-12  CHI*    48.6
1998-99  NYK*    48.8
1998-99  UTA*    48.9
1999-00  LAL*    49.0
1998-99  POR*    49.2
2011-12  BOS*    49.8
2000-01  NYK*    50.1
1993-94  NYK*    50.1
2000-01  MIA*    50.3
1998-99  PHI*    50.3
2003-04  IND*    50.4
2002-03  NJN*    50.5
1998-99  ORL*    50.6
2003-04  NJN*    50.6


The Thunder are not even close to be the best defensive team in terms of opponents TS%.

ahh, mistake on my part from b-ball reference. I searched for team DRTg's under a certain amount, and calculated the defensive TS%'s based upon the stats given. I've just realized that it only gives the opponents shooting, and the raw data is actually the team's offensive stats as opposed to their defensive stats.

Still, 50.8 TS% is one of the better defensive outputs in the past 20 years or so. And coming from the most efficient offense as well, absolutely spectacular. It makes sense seeing as they're top 10 all time in SRS.

I'll edit OP

28reloaded wrote:7th in SRS all time only behind 92 Chi, 96 Chi, 96 Chi, 71 Mil, 72 Mil, 72 LAL
9th in MOV all time, every team in front of them won the title

First of all, the other teams done that in 82 games and we can find stretches of 21 games during their respective seasons in which they were even higher. In fact, we can find multiple other 20+ game stretches for teams which are in the same league as the 21 games for the Thunder right now.
And, the 1972 Milwaukee Bucks did not win the title.

mysticbb wrote:

28reloaded wrote:7th in SRS all time only behind 92 Chi, 96 Chi, 96 Chi, 71 Mil, 72 Mil, 72 LAL
9th in MOV all time, every team in front of them won the title

First of all, the other teams done that in 82 games and we can find stretches of 21 games during their respective seasons in which they were even higher. In fact, we can find multiple other 20+ game stretches for teams which are in the same league as the 21 games for the Thunder right now.
And, the 1972 Milwaukee Bucks did not win the title.

Quick question, what's the Thunder's team SRS? Where does that rank in NBA history as of today? Thanks

28reloaded wrote:Still, 50.8 TS% is one of the better defensive outputs in the past 20 years or so.

2027 PTS/(2*(1785 FGA + 0.44*462 FTA)) * 100 = 51.0 TS%

28reloaded wrote:It makes sense seeing as they're top 10 all time in SRS.

The 2003 Mavericks started the season with a 12.29 SRS over the first 21 games. Just to put the number a bit into perspective.
The 2008 Rockets had a 22 game stretch of 11.3 SRS.

fallacy wrote:

28reloaded wrote:

JackFinn wrote:Then their rebounding, turnovers, and opponent turnovers must be bad because their record and win margin aren't as historic.

9th in rebounding, like 24th in turnovers.

7th in SRS all time only behind 92 Chi, 96 Chi, 96 Chi, 71 Mil, 72 Mil, 72 LAL
9th in MOV all time, every team in front of them won the title

JackFinn must have some insane expectations

Uh, dude, read the post above you. I was right in saying that something had to give, considering the Thunder have already lost 4 games. And don't forget, everyone really cares about how awesome your team is.

Last years Spurs maintained an MOV of +13.0 over their last 23 regular season games. Their SOS on the season was a 0.11. Even with an uber weak schedule over those last 23 games (-2.0), at worst they maintained a +11.0 SRS, and likely higher. They didn't even manage to get past OKC, forget winning the title. You can't compare the performance of a team 25% into the season with all time great teams that played full schedules. Doesn't make any sense.

Further, this current OKC team is ranked 11th defensively with a 103.7 DRTG which is 1.4 points below league average. That's hardly elite at all. The difference between the league's currently #1 ranked team and OKC is nearly 3x the difference between OKC and league average. They're literally just a bit above the norm

Excuse my ignorance, but can you guys please explain what MOV, SOS, SRS etc stand for\mean? thanks.

SideshowBob wrote:Last years Spurs maintained an MOV of +13.0 over their last 23 regular season games. Their SOS on the season was a 0.11. Even with an uber weak schedule over those last 23 games (-2.0), at worst they maintained a +11.0 SRS, and likely higher. They didn't even manage to get past OKC, forget winning the title. You can't compare the performance of a team 25% into the season with all time great teams that played full schedules. Doesn't make any sense.

Further, this current OKC team is ranked 11th defensively with a 103.7 DRTG which is 1.4 points below league average. That's hardly elite at all. The difference between the league's currently #1 ranked team and OKC is nearly 3x the difference between OKC and league average. They're literally just a bit above the norm

The Spurs offense over those last 23 games was pretty flat-out amazing, although the defense was a bit suspect. When the offensive looks faltered (especially since the shooters, especially Danny Green, couldn't buy a shot) they wilted when they faced an offense that was getting what it wanted against a more suspect defense. This was especially the case since the Spurs' defense conceded the mid-range shot, which OKC is more than capable of converting (Ibaka going for 11-11 for one).

And IIRC OKC's defensive woes stem not from giving up high percentage shots (third in eFG%) but in the fact that somehow they aren't very good at forcing turnovers (in addition to being worst in TOV%) and their relative woes on keeping opponents off the glass (Kevin Durant is not a great offensive rebounder).

I'm actually interested how good they'd be if they had someone like Reggie Evans or an "energy" guy off the bench a la Jordan Hill or even a DeJuan Blair.

boogie-reke wrote:Excuse my ignorance, but can you guys please explain what MOV, SOS, SRS etc stand for\mean? thanks.

MOV = margin of victory, the average difference between point scored per game and points surrendered per game
SOS = strength of schedule, the average SRS of the opponents
SRS = simple rating system, MOV + SOS = SRS, that is based on ordinary least square, a regression on the results of the games for a respective season

One wrinkle of the Thunder offense is their sheer ability to get to the line and convert. http://bkref.com/tiny/COFLx

If the season ended today they'd finish 13th among team-seasons in the 3 point line era all-time in FT/FGA, and four of the team-seasons ahead of them were Utah teams from the Stockton-Malone era (and Malone is the all time leader in FTAs, IIRC). Quite amazing for a team that doesn't exactly go inside save for Durant posting up (and even then, he's not totally a post player).

mysticbb wrote:

boogie-reke wrote:Excuse my ignorance, but can you guys please explain what MOV, SOS, SRS etc stand for\mean? thanks.

MOV = margin of victory, the average difference between point scored per game and points surrendered per game
SOS = strength of schedule, the average SRS of the opponents
SRS = simple rating system, MOV + SOS = SRS, that is based on ordinary least square, a regression on the results of the games for a respective season

Thanks man

TwentyOne920 wrote:This was especially the case since the Spurs' defense conceded the mid-range shot, which OKC is more than capable of converting (Ibaka going for 11-11 for one).

The Thunder actually overachieved in those 4 games from midrange, that was one of the reasons the Spurs lost. Overall the Thunder just went lucky, having the Spurs missing more open shots than expected while they made more than expected. Right now the Thunder are also making more than expected from 3pt range, Durant, Westbrook, Martin and Sefolosha are making the 3pt shot well above their career averages. It seems as if that is not sustainable over the course of the season. It is rather to expected that all 4 players will average their career average 3p% for the rest of the season rather than keeping the current percentages. That means, about 4.2 points per 100 possessions will be lost. Right now about 4 points per game on offense for the Thunder are achieved by shooting the 3pt shot well above the expected value.

TwentyOne920 wrote:I'm actually interested how good they'd be if they had someone like Reggie Evans or an "energy" guy off the bench a la Jordan Hill or even a DeJuan Blair.

The Thunder have a high energy guy off the bench with Nick Collison. And Collison has a bigger impact than everyone of the players you mentioned. The Thunder are playing +17.3 per 100 possessions when Collison is on the court. That is the 2nd highest margin among players with 500+ possessions, right behind Ginobili's +17.8.