RealGM

Moreyball defined as:

- make sure you're not locked into deals with aging / expensive / injury prone vets who aren't blue chip stars
- maintain enough financial flexibility so you are in the game to acquire available superstars
- keep cycling in inexpensive rookies / 1st round picks stashed to use as trade bait
- acting as trade-deadline parasites by picking up above assets from desperate franchises
- using a statistical approach to player evaluation, don't fall in love with your roster

It seems to be working - case in point, Houston just fleeced Sacto for Thomas Robinson because of their financial flexibility.

As a GSW fan I can't help but think how our roster would look like if Morey were running it the last few years...we're like the polar opposite, we get expensive vets and make long term bets on them.

It seems like a no-brainer strategy for non tier-1 franchises. Teams like the Nets and Sixers are basically treading water while Moreyball runs circles around them in terms of positioning for real contention.

Morey took a lot of heat the last few years but his plan is basically panning out. So why not imitate it? Memphis appears to be trying but not a lot of others.

Suns look like half the FO are running "money ball" while the other side is doing their best to "sabotage" it... (aka trying to trade for Josh Smith)

1UPZ wrote:Suns look like half the FO are running "money ball" while the other side is doing their best to "sabotage" it... (aka trying to trade for Josh Smith)

Suns definitely have no well defined strategy...but still they aren't in the WORST situation in the world. There are teams with worse positions going forward. Like the Nets

Because GMs don't have the software/stastitical analysis database Morey has.

This guy was murdered for the Asik signing, this guy picks up 2nd rounders like it's nothing; Landry, Budinger, Parsons. His style isn't the norm. The only other team thats somewhat adopting this philosophy of financial flexibility, non-risky talent signings, etc. is the Mavericks but they owe it to Dirk to keep their above head water(not doing so well), so sentimental purposes come about. Morey has NO loyalty, whatsoever. That's hard to comprehend, his loyalty is to Les and to the Rockets organization, not to the players. Players are treated as commodities/assets. You got to remove the player relationship, also, to do what Dork Elvis.

Frank Mulely wrote:Moreyball defined as:

- make sure you're not locked into deals with aging / expensive / injury prone vets who aren't blue chip stars
- maintain enough financial flexibility so you are in the game to acquire available superstars
- keep cycling in inexpensive rookies / 1st round picks stashed to use as trade bait
- acting as trade-deadline parasites by picking up above assets from desperate franchises
- using a statistical approach to player evaluation, don't fall in love with your roster

This is the Cleveland Cavaliers business model.

The have a super young squad, tons of picks, loads of cap flexibility, and a star.
....and they're one of the 5 worst teams in the league, lol.

I think what might be the limitation for this plan is lack of patiance. Its a 3-5 year plan and you don't know if its going to work until several years into it.
Shifting fom loaded with assets to loaded with stars is far from automatic.

Because the majority of NBA GMs are complete morons.

Morey's severely underrated. His teams may have missed the playoffs a couple of times, but I don't remember them ever being bottom feeders.

What good has this done him over the past few seasons? The Rockets haven't been that great to begin with.

I thought Ainge was going to go this route. I recall him saying he was going to take a bill belichick like approach and trade aging superstars. You always hear the rumors but he hasn't pulled the trigger.

I don't see the Cavs doing it. For instance, Morey would have sold high on Varajao awhile back.

This strategy is not to get some young guys and "let them develop". That's conventional GM thinking, and how you waste years on things like an Eddy Curry - Tyson Chandler frontcourt combo.

I think the key to it is not falling in love with your roster. if a guy is not a blue chipper like Kyrie or Harden, you sell high on him when you can. It's kind of an over-trading strategy but it seems to work if you view it like a poker game where you try to stay in the trade-deadline / draft trade picture at all times. Houston is ALWAYS in the trading game. When people want to dump some salary like Sacto did with T-Rob, Houston is ready to pounce.

Kahn tries to do this but he's, uh, challenged analytically so it doesn't work for him.

tidho wrote:

Frank Mulely wrote:Moreyball defined as:

- make sure you're not locked into deals with aging / expensive / injury prone vets who aren't blue chip stars
- maintain enough financial flexibility so you are in the game to acquire available superstars
- keep cycling in inexpensive rookies / 1st round picks stashed to use as trade bait
- acting as trade-deadline parasites by picking up above assets from desperate franchises
- using a statistical approach to player evaluation, don't fall in love with your roster

This is the Cleveland Cavaliers business model.

The have a super young squad, tons of picks, loads of cap flexibility, and a star.
....and they're one of the 5 worst teams in the league, lol.

I think what might be the limitation for this plan is lack of patiance. Its a 3-5 year plan and you don't know if its going to work until several years into it.
Shifting fom loaded with assets to loaded with stars is far from automatic.

The Cavaliers are numbnuts in draft picks too; I think Waiters and Thompson were STRONG reaches. Give Morey a top pick, and he comes out like Presit. Granted, Morey's track record of 1st rounders(Morris, TJones, Nutcase White) haven't been too great recently he's always gotten a somewhat okay piece, but has done wonders with later picks in the draft(Parsons, Budinger, Landry) and at the time Aaron Brooks(late 1st).

The Cavaliers, outside of Irving, and we must give them credit for that pick(and that trade to get #1 pick, too) have been subpar. It's easy to play the hindsight game but a team with let's say Iriving, Drummond, and Klay Thompson shows more promise than they do now.

I think you should have asked why more teams aren't playing Spursball or Lakersball. Those teams are those who consistently reached the final goal of winning championships while Moreyball has won nothing yet.

Because Moreyball is stuck in mediocrity over years. And even now they are looking at a 1st round spanking...

Flash3 wrote:What good has this done him over the past few seasons? The Rockets haven't been that great to begin with.

The key to the theory - I should have mentioned this - is that you can't win a ring without a tier-1 superstar. Morey has been chasing Dwight for awhile, chased LeBron, etc. Harden is close - you might be able to build a contender around him.

This strategy is for people who really want to contend not just plateau as a second-round team. It might not work but you've at least taken a swing at it.

For instance, if Dwight wants out of LA this summer, Houston is probably best positioned to make that happen in terms of having trade assets and a remaining core to sell him on.

I'm a Rockets fan who doesn't get Morey's love. I've been wrong about most of the things he's been right on, specifically the Asik signing and Harden trade, but the last time the Rockets were contenders the team was basically built when already Daryl got there.

Yeah, he basically got James Harden for a broken down T-Mac and Carl Landry. He also traded our draft pick this year for Terrance Williams, who was waived.

The Raptors hired a top stats guy, and started tracking a ton of data like crazy.

But, I'm not sure what good it is when you just end up doing anti-moneyball moves all the time anyways, and not even looking at the stats. The ridiculous thing is the 'stat's guy for the team always comes out and defends every move, so basically all they are doing is paying the guy to be a PR company yes man.

I think now that his plan is panning out, we'll start to see more franchises moving towards this style of managing. He took a chance with it and its heading in the right direction. The West got even stronger.

tha_rock220 wrote:I'm a Rockets fan who doesn't get Morey's love. I've been wrong about most of the things he's been right on, specifically the Asik signing and Harden trade, but the last time the Rockets were contenders the team was basically built when already Daryl got there.

Yeah, he basically got James Harden for a broken down T-Mac and Carl Landry. He also traded our draft pick this year for Terrance Williams, who was waived.

Houston fans should stop being so critical. No GM wins every acquisition. But he's got a superstar SG on the roster now, good young players / assets surrounding them, and can either swing for the fences (Dwight) or go for a respectable non-contender type roster (Josh Smith). A LOT of franchises are worse off.

Another element that's critical here is an owner that isn't overly meddling in acquisitions. Teams like Dallas and Brooklyn have a big problem in this area.

Flash3 wrote:What good has this done him over the past few seasons? The Rockets haven't been that great to begin with.

He inherited a crippled team, and always remained at .500 or better. It takes time to rebuild a team, when you're two stars fade into retirement and from a given standpoint your asset-strapped.

Has he made bad moves? Yes. Batum for Greene for Artest for Ariza. 1st rounder for terrence Williams(available when we make the playoffs). But for what he's been given( an aging/crippled roster), he's done very good under the instruction of NEVER TO TANK by the owner(leslie alexander).

He was NOT allowed to tank, at any given point. He's admitted that's more desirable/easier way to rebuild, but his job instruction is to never do that. He's walked out with plenty of very good assets, a few years later, and a young and upcoming team on the rise. Could he have gone the Presti route a.ka. suck for 3 years and get the 2nd, 4th, and 3rd overall pick? No, he wasn't allowed to.