Re: Better Athletes NFL or NBA players?
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:12 pm
NFL pretty easily here.
Sports is our Business
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EasternHeretic wrote:So is JJ Watt a Better Athlete than Westbrook?
Takingbaconback wrote:bigbreakfast wrote:depends on how you define athleticism. ppl on this board generally only think of sprinting, strength and jumping as athleticism. I would argue that body control, endurance, flexibility, hand eye coordination are also forms of athleticism.
I'd argue nfl skill position players have to build much better body control, endurance, and eye coordination cuz they are constantly hitting or hit.
I'm sure everybody has played both sports, which is more difficult at the end? Much more fatigued playing football, it takes more endurance and perseverance. Not only physically but mentally cuz u know u are going to be crushed if ur head is not on a swivel, it takes conscious effort to be aware
Is dribbling really an example of athleticism? Why arent javale McGee and most uber athletic high flying big men not good at it then? Because while it is better with athleticism, dribbling is a skill like shooting, it's not an indication of athleticism.
hype_2004 wrote:Jkam31 wrote:JMac1 wrote:Lebron is the best athlete in the world IMO. So the NBA has the best top athlete. There are a lot of NBA players better than NFL and worse than. Bottomline, all of these guys are beasts.
Ever heard of Calvin Johnson?
Dude is 6'5 240 ran a 4.35 unprepared laser time. That's olympic speed lebron isn't running a laser 40 in under 4.55. Calvin had an 11.7 broad jump which is insane and he had a 42" standing vertical STANDING. Derrick Rose had a 42" running vertical the great Zach LaVine had a 44" running vert he beats Calvin's standing vert by 2".
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How about Marquise Goodwin, 4.27 40, 6.69 60 meters, 10.24 100 meters HS, 27'4 feet PB just placed 2nd in the Toronto Pan am games, world junior champion in long jump, the best and probably the only 2 sport athlete in Pro-sports and he will have another chance to medal in Rio as the Bills gave him the green light to participate in the off-season.
JDR720 wrote:EasternHeretic wrote:So is JJ Watt a Better Athlete than Westbrook?
probably Watt.
from his combine stats
4.84 40 yard dash
37 inch standing vert (Westbrooks combine standing vert was 30, his max was 36.5)
120 inch broad jump
4.21 40 yard shuffle
for a guy his size (6-5, 290+) those are quite impressive.
Braggins wrote:I seriously think there is a bias towards the nfl cuz there are a lot of workout warriors who arent actually athletic enough to play sports that well that want to believe that their bench press numbers and such equal real athleticism. Very specific workout measurements that can be trained for have to be taken with a grain of salt. What do you think guys like Lebron, Westbrook, Wall, Blake, Rose, etc, would put up at the NFL combine if they trained for months and months to maximize their 40 times and vert tests when they were 21/22 years old? Do you guys really think that every random WR or CB in the NFL would be flying around like a more athletic Russell Westbrook if they played basketball? We've seen elite NFL athletes get on the court and they never look that special in terms of athleticism. You guys fall prey to the NFL media endlessly obsessing over and promoting their players athletic measurements even though they clearly dont directly translate to actual usable athleticism in a lot of cases. When you have like 10x the people trying out for the NFL than the NBA and training hardcore to specifically improve their workout measurements you are obviously going to have more instances of guys putting up atypical numbers in those measurements.
Yoshun wrote:Braggins wrote:I seriously think there is a bias towards the nfl cuz there are a lot of workout warriors who arent actually athletic enough to play sports that well that want to believe that their bench press numbers and such equal real athleticism. Very specific workout measurements that can be trained for have to be taken with a grain of salt. What do you think guys like Lebron, Westbrook, Wall, Blake, Rose, etc, would put up at the NFL combine if they trained for months and months to maximize their 40 times and vert tests when they were 21/22 years old? Do you guys really think that every random WR or CB in the NFL would be flying around like a more athletic Russell Westbrook if they played basketball? We've seen elite NFL athletes get on the court and they never look that special in terms of athleticism. You guys fall prey to the NFL media endlessly obsessing over and promoting their players athletic measurements even though they clearly dont directly translate to actual usable athleticism in a lot of cases. When you have like 10x the people trying out for the NFL than the NBA and training hardcore to specifically improve their workout measurements you are obviously going to have more instances of guys putting up atypical numbers in those measurements.
Which NFL athletes have we seen on the court that were nothing special? Are you saying all of these guys who are putting up crazy numbers in every known measure of athleticism aren't athletic? Also how would you measure athleticism?
Braggins wrote:I seriously think there is a bias towards the nfl cuz there are a lot of workout warriors who arent actually athletic enough to play sports that well that want to believe that their bench press numbers and such equal real athleticism. Very specific workout measurements that can be trained for have to be taken with a grain of salt. What do you think guys like Lebron, Westbrook, Wall, Blake, Rose, etc, would put up at the NFL combine if they trained for months and months to maximize their 40 times and vert tests when they were 21/22 years old? Do you guys really think that every random WR or CB in the NFL would be flying around like a more athletic Russell Westbrook if they played basketball? We've seen elite NFL athletes get on the court and they never look that special in terms of athleticism. You guys fall prey to the NFL media endlessly obsessing over and promoting their players athletic measurements even though they clearly dont directly translate to actual usable athleticism in a lot of cases. When you have like 10x the people trying out for the NFL than the NBA and training hardcore to specifically improve their workout measurements you are obviously going to have more instances of guys putting up atypical numbers in those measurements.
Braggins wrote:Jimmy Graham didnt look especially athletic playing basketball but is considered a freak by NFL standards. He ran a 4.5 40 and had a 39" vert, but clearly isnt even close to as fast or as good a leaper as guys like Lebron and the guys i mentioned earlier despite combine stats that suggest that he should be.
Braggins wrote:I seriously think there is a bias towards the nfl cuz there are a lot of workout warriors who arent actually athletic enough to play sports that well that want to believe that their bench press numbers and such equal real athleticism. Very specific workout measurements that can be trained for have to be taken with a grain of salt. What do you think guys like Lebron, Westbrook, Wall, Blake, Rose, etc, would put up at the NFL combine if they trained for months and months to maximize their 40 times and vert tests when they were 21/22 years old? Do you guys really think that every random WR or CB in the NFL would be flying around like a more athletic Russell Westbrook if they played basketball? We've seen elite NFL athletes get on the court and they never look that special in terms of athleticism. You guys fall prey to the NFL media endlessly obsessing over and promoting their players athletic measurements even though they clearly dont directly translate to actual usable athleticism in a lot of cases. When you have like 10x the people trying out for the NFL than the NBA and training hardcore to specifically improve their workout measurements you are obviously going to have more instances of guys putting up atypical numbers in those measurements.
Yoshun wrote:Braggins wrote:Jimmy Graham didnt look especially athletic playing basketball but is considered a freak by NFL standards. He ran a 4.5 40 and had a 39" vert, but clearly isnt even close to as fast or as good a leaper as guys like Lebron and the guys i mentioned earlier despite combine stats that suggest that he should be.
Jimmy Graham did fine on the court in terms of his athleticism. His problems were the same as Gates, Gonzalez, etc... Poor on-ball skills. They were not talented basketball players because they lacked basketball skills. They were poor handlers, passers, shooters, etc... Athletically, they could keep up with anyone. The same problem exists with Moss, Owens, etc... They looked terrible on the court because they have poor ball skills and low bball IQs, they don't know what to do.
Most of the NBA players being mentioned in this thread are exceptonal not due simply to their athleticism, but because they are supremely skilled with a basketball.
hype_2004 wrote:Braggins wrote:I seriously think there is a bias towards the nfl cuz there are a lot of workout warriors who arent actually athletic enough to play sports that well that want to believe that their bench press numbers and such equal real athleticism. Very specific workout measurements that can be trained for have to be taken with a grain of salt. What do you think guys like Lebron, Westbrook, Wall, Blake, Rose, etc, would put up at the NFL combine if they trained for months and months to maximize their 40 times and vert tests when they were 21/22 years old? Do you guys really think that every random WR or CB in the NFL would be flying around like a more athletic Russell Westbrook if they played basketball? We've seen elite NFL athletes get on the court and they never look that special in terms of athleticism. You guys fall prey to the NFL media endlessly obsessing over and promoting their players athletic measurements even though they clearly dont directly translate to actual usable athleticism in a lot of cases. When you have like 10x the people trying out for the NFL than the NBA and training hardcore to specifically improve their workout measurements you are obviously going to have more instances of guys putting up atypical numbers in those measurements.
I have a question for you do you think guys like Westbrook, Rose, wall can beat guys like Jerome Simpson,Ginn,Goodwin, Holliday, Ford in a footrace or jumping contest? do you think a guy like Howard can beat a guy like Margus Hunt on athletic strength events?
There was a record on wall and Aries Merritt racing on a track, wall who has been training sprints with Merrit on the same track challenged Olympic gold medallist Aries merrit to a race, Merritt blew him out of the water without even trying Wall was dead serious that he can beat Merritt in the 100 meters, merrit ust toyed with him all throughout the race. What's the significance of this result well Merrit got his ass handed to him by non other than Ted Ginn in the 110 meter hurdles in HS, this proves the fact that NFL players have world class athletes that are on par with Olympians.
clippertown wrote:I would love to see a professional athlete only Olympic Games.
Athletics is the only real way of measuring athleticism on an even playing field.
Mr. E wrote:clippertown wrote:I would love to see a professional athlete only Olympic Games.
Athletics is the only real way of measuring athleticism on an even playing field.
I like this idea so much! It could be a lot of fun and a great ratings draw!
Braggins wrote:hype_2004 wrote:Braggins wrote:I seriously think there is a bias towards the nfl cuz there are a lot of workout warriors who arent actually athletic enough to play sports that well that want to believe that their bench press numbers and such equal real athleticism. Very specific workout measurements that can be trained for have to be taken with a grain of salt. What do you think guys like Lebron, Westbrook, Wall, Blake, Rose, etc, would put up at the NFL combine if they trained for months and months to maximize their 40 times and vert tests when they were 21/22 years old? Do you guys really think that every random WR or CB in the NFL would be flying around like a more athletic Russell Westbrook if they played basketball? We've seen elite NFL athletes get on the court and they never look that special in terms of athleticism. You guys fall prey to the NFL media endlessly obsessing over and promoting their players athletic measurements even though they clearly dont directly translate to actual usable athleticism in a lot of cases. When you have like 10x the people trying out for the NFL than the NBA and training hardcore to specifically improve their workout measurements you are obviously going to have more instances of guys putting up atypical numbers in those measurements.
I have a question for you do you think guys like Westbrook, Rose, wall can beat guys like Jerome Simpson,Ginn,Goodwin, Holliday, Ford in a footrace or jumping contest? do you think a guy like Howard can beat a guy like Margus Hunt on athletic strength events?
There was a record on wall and Aries Merritt racing on a track, wall who has been training sprints with Merrit on the same track challenged Olympic gold medallist Aries merrit to a race, Merritt blew him out of the water without even trying Wall was dead serious that he can beat Merritt in the 100 meters, merrit ust toyed with him all throughout the race. What's the significance of this result well Merrit got his ass handed to him by non other than Ted Ginn in the 110 meter hurdles in HS, this proves the fact that NFL players have world class athletes that are on par with Olympians.
I didnt say they dont have world class athletes, just that their combine measurements can be misleading and arent a good thing to base the argument on.
Obviously, someone who specializes in running in a straight line over a specific distance is going to beat people at that measurement that dont specialize in it and someone winning a foot race doesnt automatically make him the superior athlete. Its more complicated than that. Ted Ginn very well may be faster than Westbrook, but hes also 5'11 and weighs 185 pounds. Westbrook certainly has some advantages in other athletic areas.
You cant just pick and choose the top specialists in certain areas and use them to say that NFL players are better overall athletes. You can probably find a random 5'10 corner is faster than any NBA player but doesnt have the strength, size or coordination to play in the NBA or even other football positions. There have been guys like Allen Iverson at that size in the NBA who were just as quick/fast/explosive, if not more, than any NFL corner. You can also surely find a 6'4 265 pound linebacker who is way stronger than any 6'4 NBA player, but isnt nearly as quick or agile as top NBA athletes of that height. Its really difficult to compare the two sports honestly. I tend to prefer the top NBA athletes because they seem to be more well rounded and their often absurd height just makes them seem more impressive. Some of the giant athletic freaks in the NBA don't even seem like they could possibly be the same species as the rest of us. They are much rarer than the athletic freaks of the NFL. That might not be the fairest way to ultimately decide, but idk. I can't help but be much more impressed by a Lebron James or Wilt Chamberlain type than anything I've ever seen in the NFL.
hype_2004 wrote:Braggins wrote:hype_2004 wrote:
I have a question for you do you think guys like Westbrook, Rose, wall can beat guys like Jerome Simpson,Ginn,Goodwin, Holliday, Ford in a footrace or jumping contest? do you think a guy like Howard can beat a guy like Margus Hunt on athletic strength events?
There was a record on wall and Aries Merritt racing on a track, wall who has been training sprints with Merrit on the same track challenged Olympic gold medallist Aries merrit to a race, Merritt blew him out of the water without even trying Wall was dead serious that he can beat Merritt in the 100 meters, merrit ust toyed with him all throughout the race. What's the significance of this result well Merrit got his ass handed to him by non other than Ted Ginn in the 110 meter hurdles in HS, this proves the fact that NFL players have world class athletes that are on par with Olympians.
I didnt say they dont have world class athletes, just that their combine measurements can be misleading and arent a good thing to base the argument on.
Obviously, someone who specializes in running in a straight line over a specific distance is going to beat people at that measurement that dont specialize in it and someone winning a foot race doesnt automatically make him the superior athlete. Its more complicated than that. Ted Ginn very well may be faster than Westbrook, but hes also 5'11 and weighs 185 pounds. Westbrook certainly has some advantages in other athletic areas.
You cant just pick and choose the top specialists in certain areas and use them to say that NFL players are better overall athletes. You can probably find a random 5'10 corner is faster than any NBA player but doesnt have the strength, size or coordination to play in the NBA or even other football positions. There have been guys like Allen Iverson at that size in the NBA who were just as quick/fast/explosive, if not more, than any NFL corner. You can also surely find a 6'4 265 pound linebacker who is way stronger than any 6'4 NBA player, but isnt nearly as quick or agile as top NBA athletes of that height. Its really difficult to compare the two sports honestly. I tend to prefer the top NBA athletes because they seem to be more well rounded and their often absurd height just makes them seem more impressive. Some of the giant athletic freaks in the NBA don't even seem like they could possibly be the same species as the rest of us. They are much rarer than the athletic freaks of the NFL. That might not be the fairest way to ultimately decide, but idk. I can't help but be much more impressed by a Lebron James or Wilt Chamberlain type than anything I've ever seen in the NFL.
So your more impressed by TALL guys who move fast than short guys who are absolutely world class in terms of athletic talents? fair enough but that doesn't mean these tall dudes they are more ATHLETIC frankly I don't give a rats ass if they guys is 7 feet or 5 feet when it comes to pure athleticism.
qm22 wrote:Mr. E wrote:I like this idea so much! It could be a lot of fun and a great ratings draw!
What competition tho? 100 M? Swimming?
It's hard to choose one that isn't biased towards specialities of another. Hence, swimming & archery may as well be in it too