Better Athletes NFL or NBA players?

[Ambrose]

I don't think nba players have the eye hand coordination of those sports in general (which is a part of agility but not all that goes into it) and being tall I don't think is useful beyond a point in baseball, huge strike zone. Mind you I don't think marginal baseball players or golfers make NBA money but I could be wrong?

Baseball guys get insane money and they get super long contracts. There are guys in their mid-late 20's signing 10-13 year deals paying them 30+ million/year guaranteed into their 40's.

They do but Kyler Murray still chose the NFL over the MLB despite being drafted there as well.

I do believe some players do go for the sport they simply like better rather than it all being about the money.

From a purely financial standoint (health as well). I personally would have chosen the MLB if I was in Murray's shoes but he had his reasons.

I'm disagreeing with his argument. Financially it makes more sense to pursue Baseball and yet people don't. The argument that better athletes choose the NBA over the NFL because of money isn't accurate. I understand his argument that they are different types of athletes and it's not a perfect comparison. However, that can be true while it is also blatantly obvious that NFL athletes are superior by virtually any measurable metric.

[D.Brasco]

Baseball guys get insane money and they get super long contracts. There are guys in their mid-late 20's signing 10-13 year deals paying them 30+ million/year guaranteed into their 40's.

They do but Kyler Murray still chose the NFL over the MLB despite being drafted there as well.

I do believe some players do go for the sport they simply like better rather than it all being about the money.

From a purely financial standoint (health as well). I personally would have chosen the MLB if I was in Murray's shoes but he had his reasons.

I'm disagreeing with his argument. Financially it makes more sense to pursue Baseball and yet people don't. The argument that better athletes choose the NBA over the NFL because of money isn't accurate. I understand his argument that they are different types of athletes and it's not a perfect comparison. However, that can be true while it is also blatantly obvious that NFL athletes are superior by virtually any measurable metric.

Right I lost track over who was making what argument. I think in many cases the saying "talent follows the money" is true.

However like in my example with Kyler, if someone really likes football and they can still make good money despite the higher risks involved, they may just end up picking football despite another sport where they may get paid more and face less injury.

[SkyHookFTW]

I don't think nba players have the eye hand coordination of those sports in general (which is a part of agility but not all that goes into it) and being tall I don't think is useful beyond a point in baseball, huge strike zone. Mind you I don't think marginal baseball players or golfers make NBA money but I could be wrong?

Baseball guys get insane money and they get super long contracts. There are guys in their mid-late 20's signing 10-13 year deals paying them 30+ million/year guaranteed into their 40's. Sixteen of the twenty largest contracts ever signed in sports are MLB guys. There are zero NBA guys in the top twenty. They make more per year though.

The average MLB salary per my quick google is 4.43 vs NBA at 8.32. I'm assuming we're talking about the average guy, not the apex stars.

Baseball has an odd salary structure. Starting pitchers can be among the best paid players yet only play every fifth game. I can't think of any other team sport with this dynamic for a starting player.

[shotsquatch]

Some people in the thread claiming NBA players wouldn't be able to compete with NFL guys in 40 times. Lol.

Plenty of NBA guards could run sub 4.5, and guys like D Rose or Wall are probably hitting 4.3 pretty easily.

LeBron has been hand timed at 4.4 and 4.6, but he's **** 6'9" lol

Rose at 4.3 haha asinine lebron was never touching a 4.5 let alone a 4.4

You don't know what you're talking about. We have official 3/4 court sprint (30 yard) times for many NBA players. The fastest guys run it in ~3.2 seconds. You don't have to extrapolate much from that data to see that many NBA guards would be able to run sub 4.4 at the very least.

[Ambrose]

Some people in the thread claiming NBA players wouldn't be able to compete with NFL guys in 40 times. Lol.

Plenty of NBA guards could run sub 4.5, and guys like D Rose or Wall are probably hitting 4.3 pretty easily.

LeBron has been hand timed at 4.4 and 4.6, but he's **** 6'9" lol

Rose at 4.3 haha asinine lebron was never touching a 4.5 let alone a 4.4

You don't know what you're talking about. We have official 3/4 court sprint (30 yard) times for many NBA players. The fastest guys run it in ~3.2 seconds. You don't have to extrapolate much from that data to see that many NBA guards would be able to run sub 4.4 at the very least.

3/4 court isn't 30 yards. It's 25 yards. Any measurable athletic trait will see NFL guys far outdoing NBA guys.

[dhsilv2]

Baseball guys get insane money and they get super long contracts. There are guys in their mid-late 20's signing 10-13 year deals paying them 30+ million/year guaranteed into their 40's. Sixteen of the twenty largest contracts ever signed in sports are MLB guys. There are zero NBA guys in the top twenty. They make more per year though.

The average MLB salary per my quick google is 4.43 vs NBA at 8.32. I'm assuming we're talking about the average guy, not the apex stars.

Baseball has an odd salary structure. Starting pitchers can be among the best paid players yet only play every fifth game. I can't think of any other team sport with this dynamic for a starting player.

Yeah but you'd play more games as a starting pitcher than if you were an NFL QB. And starting pitchers are above average pitchers on teams, they're kind special.

[SkyHookFTW]

The average MLB salary per my quick google is 4.43 vs NBA at 8.32. I'm assuming we're talking about the average guy, not the apex stars.

Baseball has an odd salary structure. Starting pitchers can be among the best paid players yet only play every fifth game. I can't think of any other team sport with this dynamic for a starting player.

Yeah but you'd play more games as a starting pitcher than if you were an NFL QB. And starting pitchers are above average pitchers on teams, they're kind special.

True enough...but if NFL teams played 32 games (starters in baseball get between 30-34 starts per year on average) not many players would be left standing by the last game.

[dhsilv2]

Baseball has an odd salary structure. Starting pitchers can be among the best paid players yet only play every fifth game. I can't think of any other team sport with this dynamic for a starting player.

Yeah but you'd play more games as a starting pitcher than if you were an NFL QB. And starting pitchers are above average pitchers on teams, they're kind special.

True enough...but if NFL teams played 32 games (starters in baseball get between 30-34 starts per year on average) not many players would be left standing by the last game.

To be fair not many starting pitchers would be standing either. We were talking about pain killers in another topic not long ago. Nobody in the MLB are bigger pain pill abusers than pitchers. That's that most physically demanding jobs in any sport if we ignore the brain damage factor of NFL hits (which I'm not).

[Pelly24]

One of the dumber threads in here people think rose and fox are fast and they wouldn’t touch a 40 time 4.5

They could definitely run a legit 4.5 at least lol (if you're suggesting they couldn't). No lie, a legitimate 4.5 is much faster than people think it is, but it's still not untouchable for the fastest people in the NBA. Nate Robinson ran a 2.96 3/4 court sprint and I think was his state record holder in the 110m hurdles. He probably runs a 10.5-10.7 100m dash FAT, at least and could be faster. I'm not mentioning his rumored 4.38 40 yard dash, because IDK if it was electronic. Derrick Rose ran a very similar sprint time though and he's powerfully built so I doubt he wouldn't keep getting faster through 40 yards. I could easily see D. Rose, Peak Westbrook and fox running a 4.4-4.5 40 yard dash, even if it's electronic. Hand-timed, they could all easily run 4.3s.

Ya if that hand time was held by there agents, 4.3 is Olympic speed Fox is fast but he’s not football fast

About the same. I think DK Metcalf is peak NFL and Westbrook is peak NBA and they're very similar in size/athleticsim

Hahaha Westbrook would be considered a mediocre athlete for a receiver absolutely insane you’d even put him in the same sentence as Metcalf

Thats honestly just not true. So many high school kids run hand-timed 4.4s and 4.3s, which is why people should know that 40 yard dash times are BS. At a high major d-1 football camp I was at, there were 10 people that ran 4.5s and 4.4s, and Westbrook was a far better athlete than all of them.

The best way to tell someone's speed/acceleration—unless they're at an NFL Combine, but even still this one is better—is their track times. If someone can run under 11 seconds in the 100m dash, chances are they can run at least a high 4.5 or low 4.6 40 yard dash electronic. If they can run between a 10.5 and 10.7, probably a low 4.5 at worst, high to mid 4.4 after that, though it varies based on whether you're a good starter. If you run a legit 4.3, you'll probably run 10.5 or under. Reggie Bush ran a 10.42 as a 16 or 17 year old junior in high school. Probably could've gotten down to 10.2. He ran a 4.33 at the NFL Combine. Adrian Peterson was a 10.4 100m dash type of guy (ran a wind-aided 10.33) and he ran a 4.40 on the dot (electronic) in the 40 yard dash at the NFL Combine.

Now, Russ, D. Rose and Fox are probably slower than all of those guys, but that would still put them in at least the electronic 4.5 range. An electronic 4.5 isn't some unattainable mark for an elite athlete. A lot of guys in the NBA can run that time.


I think Westbrook is probably as athletic as an above average athlete wide receiver. He also was no where near maxed out physically when he did the NFL Combine. You have to remember that NBA players don't train for explosiveness and power in the same way. That's why Westbrook was scrawny coming into the NBA. No elite prospect with elite athleticism leaves college after two years and is that scrawny, unless they play basketball and are still developing.

[NO-KG-AI]

Who would be the Zion Williamson equivalent in the NFL and is his combination of size and movement atypical for even an NFL player?

I think Zion when factoring in height and build is probably the most NFL type athlete in the league probably more so than LeBron as his height is not typical for an NFL player but there are quite a few 6'5-6'7" NFL stars.

Really? I don’t think he would be a good nfl player. He doesn’t seem like he’s all that fast in a straight line or nearly quick enough to play TE. He’d be a beast in the red zone though but that’s about it

I'm not saying he'd actually be a good player but like I said his size and build seems more typical for an NFL player than an NBA player.

He’d be an absolutely elite athlete and play offensive line or defensive line... the most important things outside of QB.

[The_Hater]

Some people in the thread claiming NBA players wouldn't be able to compete with NFL guys in 40 times. Lol.

Plenty of NBA guards could run sub 4.5, and guys like D Rose or Wall are probably hitting 4.3 pretty easily.

LeBron has been hand timed at 4.4 and 4.6, but he's **** 6'9" lol

Rose at 4.3 haha asinine lebron was never touching a 4.5 let alone a 4.4

Being highly obnoxious is an irritating trait. Especially when you’re almost certainly wrong and can’t possibly prove your position.

[Mephariel]

Not saying NBA players are more athletic, but I think this thread shows that Americans are severely bias for explosive athleticism. Basically athletic to most people just means the most explosive. Nevermind stamina, dexterity, vision, etc.

[theonlyclutch]

Baseball guys get insane money and they get super long contracts. There are guys in their mid-late 20's signing 10-13 year deals paying them 30+ million/year guaranteed into their 40's.

They do but Kyler Murray still chose the NFL over the MLB despite being drafted there as well.

I do believe some players do go for the sport they simply like better rather than it all being about the money.

From a purely financial standoint (health as well). I personally would have chosen the MLB if I was in Murray's shoes but he had his reasons.

I'm disagreeing with his argument. Financially it makes more sense to pursue Baseball and yet people don't. The argument that better athletes choose the NBA over the NFL because of money isn't accurate. I understand his argument that they are different types of athletes and it's not a perfect comparison. However, that can be true while it is also blatantly obvious that NFL athletes are superior by virtually any measurable metric.

Financially it makes much more sense for Kyler to be an NFL QB than to be a MLB pitcher.

A first rounder in the NFL gets $20+m guaranteed in his first 4 seasons, and if (as a qb) kyler plays fine he'd be in line for an extension with close to $100m guarantees even before those first 4 seasons end.

Contrast that with the MLB, where Kyler was set to receive a considerable signing bonus (<10m) as a first rounder. But then:
- progress up the minors system on basically nothing (no guarantees he ever gets to the majors).
- spend the first 3 seasons making MLB minimum (500k),
- salary arbitration for the next three seasons (year-to-year, suppressed salary FA).
If and only if Kyler survived that gauntlet (can be cut in each season, may blow out his elbow) and came out as a star on the other end would he have the chance to cash in on those aforementioned 10+year 300+m contracts.

Its pretty evident that even with the LT health concerns why NFL was chosen, it's just a more lucrative path with more guaranteed money coming sooner.

[magicman1978]

Those NFL guys would be playing basketball if they were athletically gifted enough. More money, longer career, less brain damage....

No, because basketball is a game that relies more on skill than just pure athleticism like some positions in the NFL. The NBA doesn't emphasize speed, quickness, and strength the same way the NFL dies when drafting players. You only need to look at the history of the draft combines to see the NFL clearly has better athletes. In particular, standing vertical measurements from NFL combine athletes blow away basketball athletes. No basketball player has recorded a 40"+ standing vert in the history of the combine. This year in the NFL combine 22 players did it. That's because football athletes spend more time strength/speed/agility training anD basketball athletes focus more on skill based training.

Most of the "skill" in basketball really comes down to athletic ability. Harden's step back 3 works because he can stop his body on a dime because of his athletic ability to do so. Controlling a ball and changing directions again goes back to athletic skills. Fine motor skills are no different than strength in that training improves them but fine motor skills are an athletic trait.

Harden has great coordination, but he also didn't come into the league and be able to do what he does now. That took a lot of practice - that's more skill than natural athletic ability. If you take a look at the average NFL cornerback - they have incredible agility, quickness, speed, reaction times, etc. They are much better than NBA players in these areas of athleticism on average, but NBA players may beat them in areas like coordination (dribbling a basketball) - definitely not agility. I think NFL players just beat out NBA players on more areas of athletic traits (if you tested DK Metcalf and Harden in areas of athleticism, I think Metcalf comes out on top in more). Also, if NBA players were more athletic - I think we'd see at least one player in combine history do what 20 football players did this year in an area that's highly relevant to NBA athleticism (40+ standing vert).

[Ambrose]

They could definitely run a legit 4.5 at least lol (if you're suggesting they couldn't). No lie, a legitimate 4.5 is much faster than people think it is, but it's still not untouchable for the fastest people in the NBA. Nate Robinson ran a 2.96 3/4 court sprint and I think was his state record holder in the 110m hurdles. He probably runs a 10.5-10.7 100m dash FAT, at least and could be faster. I'm not mentioning his rumored 4.38 40 yard dash, because IDK if it was electronic. Derrick Rose ran a very similar sprint time though and he's powerfully built so I doubt he wouldn't keep getting faster through 40 yards. I could easily see D. Rose, Peak Westbrook and fox running a 4.4-4.5 40 yard dash, even if it's electronic. Hand-timed, they could all easily run 4.3s.

Ya if that hand time was held by there agents, 4.3 is Olympic speed Fox is fast but he’s not football fast

About the same. I think DK Metcalf is peak NFL and Westbrook is peak NBA and they're very similar in size/athleticsim

Hahaha Westbrook would be considered a mediocre athlete for a receiver absolutely insane you’d even put him in the same sentence as Metcalf

Thats honestly just not true. So many high school kids run hand-timed 4.4s and 4.3s, which is why people should know that 40 yard dash times are BS. At a high major d-1 football camp I was at, there were 10 people that ran 4.5s and 4.4s, and Westbrook was a far better athlete than all of them.

The best way to tell someone's speed/acceleration—unless they're at an NFL Combine, but even still this one is better—is their track times. If someone can run under 11 seconds in the 100m dash, chances are they can run at least a high 4.5 or low 4.6 40 yard dash electronic. If they can run between a 10.5 and 10.7, probably a low 4.5 at worst, high to mid 4.4 after that, though it varies based on whether you're a good starter. If you run a legit 4.3, you'll probably run 10.5 or under. Reggie Bush ran a 10.42 as a 16 or 17 year old junior in high school. Probably could've gotten down to 10.2. He ran a 4.33 at the NFL Combine. Adrian Peterson was a 10.4 100m dash type of guy (ran a wind-aided 10.33) and he ran a 4.40 on the dot (electronic) in the 40 yard dash at the NFL Combine.

Now, Russ, D. Rose and Fox are probably slower than all of those guys, but that would still put them in at least the electronic 4.5 range. An electronic 4.5 isn't some unattainable mark for an elite athlete. A lot of guys in the NBA can run that time.


I think Westbrook is probably as athletic as an above average athlete wide receiver. He also was no where near maxed out physically when he did the NFL Combine. You have to remember that NBA players don't train for explosiveness and power in the same way. That's why Westbrook was scrawny coming into the NBA. No elite prospect with elite athleticism leaves college after two years and is that scrawny, unless they play basketball and are still developing.

That's the point. Both an NFL and NBA guy may have started out as equals but one requires more explosiveness, power, and agility than the other. That's why NFL players will beat NBA players in pretty much any measurable athletic measurement outside of height. There are other elements of athleticism than explosion, power, and agility but pretty much anything an NBA player is good at athletically an NFL WR or CB is likely better at. They have to be to play those positions.

The NBA requires more skill and that's why you don't see NFL guys casually jump to the NBA. It's like the Usain Bolt thread, it doesn't matter how athletic you are if you can't dribble a basketball. Shooting, dribbling, and passing are all skills. A lot of positions in football require elite athleticism with elite technique. There isn't as much skill involved. It's easier to transition to if you can check the first box.

[dhsilv2]

No, because basketball is a game that relies more on skill than just pure athleticism like some positions in the NFL. The NBA doesn't emphasize speed, quickness, and strength the same way the NFL dies when drafting players. You only need to look at the history of the draft combines to see the NFL clearly has better athletes. In particular, standing vertical measurements from NFL combine athletes blow away basketball athletes. No basketball player has recorded a 40"+ standing vert in the history of the combine. This year in the NFL combine 22 players did it. That's because football athletes spend more time strength/speed/agility training anD basketball athletes focus more on skill based training.

Most of the "skill" in basketball really comes down to athletic ability. Harden's step back 3 works because he can stop his body on a dime because of his athletic ability to do so. Controlling a ball and changing directions again goes back to athletic skills. Fine motor skills are no different than strength in that training improves them but fine motor skills are an athletic trait.

Harden has great coordination, but he also didn't come into the league and be able to do what he does now. That took a lot of practice - that's more skill than natural athletic ability. If you take a look at the average NFL cornerback - they have incredible agility, quickness, speed, reaction times, etc. They are much better than NBA players in these areas of athleticism on average, but NBA players may beat them in areas like coordination (dribbling a basketball) - definitely not agility. I think NFL players just beat out NBA players on more areas of athletic traits (if you tested DK Metcalf and Harden in areas of athleticism, I think Metcalf comes out on top in more). Also, if NBA players were more athletic - I think we'd see at least one player in combine history do what 20 football players did this year in an area that's highly relevant to NBA athleticism (40+ standing vert).

1. Harden's skills are built on his athleticism. Yes, it's a skill to use the step back, but the step back works because he can do that. People are so interested in 40 yard dashes and vertical leaping, but Harden is in the 99th percentile in his ability to decelerate.
2. Coordination is a part of agility. Dribbling is a part of agility.
3. Cornerbacks are likely the most agile players in the NFL but they're also among the smallest and generally aren't the top strength guys either.
4. Isn't Metcalf seen as among the best athletes in the NFL? I brought up harden because he's generally seen as on the lower end of being a natural athlete while being elite in the nba. Why compare him to a guy who's the opposite? Seems to be missing the point of why I even brought Harden in.
5. Standing vert is an explosive movement. As discussed NFL players train for explosive (strength) areas while NBA players have to train much more for endurance. This is a fundamental difference in the two sports. NBA players have to have much more of a balance while NFL players due to the nature of the game don't.

[DCasey91]

Still reckon gymnastics looks like the hardest on the bodywise without contact.

Flexibility - Top
Discipline - Top Top Top, (no choice but to start extremely young)
Stamina/Strength/Power - Through the wazoo hole.
Skill - Haha what was that you did.

all elite sports/and or disciplines requires innate level of talent, prodigious skill and high end athletic traits. Athletic traits comes in all different forms it isn’t as measurable as just looking at a stat sheet.

Bolt could eat a full sized cheese cake, 4x mountain dews a happy meal and would smoke 99.9% of the world basically even if he never sprinted in his life.
Hopping of the couch he’d a run 12 flat.

A 50yr old man would smoke him in a half marathon (even today). It isn’t cut and dry as it’s made out to be.

A world class gymnast is a probably if not the most dedicated athlete (if your 18 you’ve basically been a straight vet for a decade lol).


Do you know the level of hand - eye you need to play Baseball/Cricket in the majors or in world international stage? it’s insanity. Plenty of stories from both disclipines of guys who “looked overweight” or chubby had beers before or after ordering and smoked everyone around them because their hand - eye is just on a different planet. No not regular rec leagues, talking about stories of ATG’s, Mickey Mantle rings a bell.

Heck Mr Daly could wack a ball as good as any.

[SkyHookFTW]

Really? I don’t think he would be a good nfl player. He doesn’t seem like he’s all that fast in a straight line or nearly quick enough to play TE. He’d be a beast in the red zone though but that’s about it

I'm not saying he'd actually be a good player but like I said his size and build seems more typical for an NFL player than an NBA player.

He’d be an absolutely elite athlete and play offensive line or defensive line... the most important things outside of QB.

Zion as constructed now is too small to play the offensive line. Average weight for that position is 316. He is also not built for the interior of a D line. Defensive end would be his spot.

[bigbreakfast]

Most of the "skill" in basketball really comes down to athletic ability. Harden's step back 3 works because he can stop his body on a dime because of his athletic ability to do so. Controlling a ball and changing directions again goes back to athletic skills. Fine motor skills are no different than strength in that training improves them but fine motor skills are an athletic trait.

Harden has great coordination, but he also didn't come into the league and be able to do what he does now. That took a lot of practice - that's more skill than natural athletic ability. If you take a look at the average NFL cornerback - they have incredible agility, quickness, speed, reaction times, etc. They are much better than NBA players in these areas of athleticism on average, but NBA players may beat them in areas like coordination (dribbling a basketball) - definitely not agility. I think NFL players just beat out NBA players on more areas of athletic traits (if you tested DK Metcalf and Harden in areas of athleticism, I think Metcalf comes out on top in more). Also, if NBA players were more athletic - I think we'd see at least one player in combine history do what 20 football players did this year in an area that's highly relevant to NBA athleticism (40+ standing vert).

1. Harden's skills are built on his athleticism. Yes, it's a skill to use the step back, but the step back works because he can do that. People are so interested in 40 yard dashes and vertical leaping, but Harden is in the 99th percentile in his ability to decelerate.
2. Coordination is a part of agility. Dribbling is a part of agility.
3. Cornerbacks are likely the most agile players in the NFL but they're also among the smallest and generally aren't the top strength guys either.
4. Isn't Metcalf seen as among the best athletes in the NFL? I brought up harden because he's generally seen as on the lower end of being a natural athlete while being elite in the nba. Why compare him to a guy who's the opposite? Seems to be missing the point of why I even brought Harden in.
5. Standing vert is an explosive movement. As discussed NFL players train for explosive (strength) areas while NBA players have to train much more for endurance. This is a fundamental difference in the two sports. NBA players have to have much more of a balance while NFL players due to the nature of the game don't.

I think our arguments are falling on deaf ears because ultimately, most people here have a very narrow definition of athleticism. Nevermind the fact there's a world of sports and insane athletes where bench press numbers and 40yd dash numbers don't matter. Their core premise is pretty flawed - they name the few measurables that NFL players train for as evidence NFL players are more athletic. It'd be like if I only looked at 400km times for long distance runners as sole evidence that they're more athletic than NFL players. If NBA players focused solely on those "traditional measurable athletics" they'd likely gain muscle mass and be adversely affected in their ability to retain endurance, remain agile, avoid injury, shoot, etc.

Until they open their narrow minds arguing with them is just an exercise in futility. There's a reason why there's an entire profession/study of athletic training and kinesiology, and why pro teams pay large amounts to have firms come and evaluate and train their players. They realize athleticism isn't just traditional 40yd dashes and bench presses.

[D.Brasco]

I'm not saying he'd actually be a good player but like I said his size and build seems more typical for an NFL player than an NBA player.

He’d be an absolutely elite athlete and play offensive line or defensive line... the most important things outside of QB.

Zion as constructed now is too small to play the offensive line. Average weight for that position is 316. He is also not built for the interior of a D line. Defensive end would be his spot.

To be fair I'm pretty sure he is actively ensuring his weight stays below 300 lbs. I think he hit near 290 lbs at some point as a 20 year old before trying to cut back down.

I think it'd be incredibly easy for Zion to get to 316 lbs, like maybe one out of control all inclusive vacation.